Calling Jesus "Lord,' without choosing to obey Him with one's life, is useless and is not able to save anyone.

[Iamabeliever]

there were judaizers who were trying to tie in the law of Moses with the gospel of the kingdom . Many still do that today

Some hold that the gospel Jesus taught is connected to the law of Moses , and they then exclude Jesus words. Others try to marry the law and gospel which doesn’t work there’s the law and Moses covenant and then there’s Christ and the new covenant .

Paul was refuting the judaizers and thier additions to the gospel

But only those who are willing to "pay"(accept Jesus as Lord and Savior of their life) the hugely reduced "cost" (the cost of having perfect righteousness and having never sinned) they must "pay" "(accept Jesus as Lord and Savior of their life) can be saved.

You're perfect then?

 

[Iamabeliever]

none of us are perfect, that is true. But that should never
preclude us from striving for perfection and allowing god
tobe the judge.

 

[oyster67]

brother can you share some scripture about what your saying ? It sounds interesting but unfamiliar

The Father requires perfection. Only Jesus was absolutely perfect. We must partake in His blood to fulfil this requirement.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

We use the term "positional perfection" to communicate to other's that we have not successfully pulled ourselves up by our own bootstraps. This is, of course, impossible. It is only by accepting Jesus' Atonement that we can fulfil the Father's requirement.

Acts
4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

 

[Iamabeliever]

none of us are perfect, that is true. But that should never
preclude us from striving for perfection and allowing god
tobe the judge.

The Father requires perfection. Only Jesus was absolutely perfect. We must partake in His blood to fulfil this requirement.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

We use the term "positional perfection" to communicate to other's that we have not successfully pulled ourselves up by our own bootstraps. This is, of course, impossible. It is only by accepting Jesus' Atonement that we can fulfil the Father's requirement.

Acts
4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

The Father requires perfection. Only Jesus was absolutely perfect. We must partake in His blood to fulfil this requirement.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

We use the term "positional perfection" to communicate to other's that we have not successfully pulled ourselves up by our own bootstraps. This is, of course, impossible. It is only by accepting Jesus' Atonement that we can fulfil the Father's requirement.

Acts
4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

 

[Iamabeliever]

Isaiah 40:28

 

[oyster67]

Isaiah 40:28

Isaiah 40:28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, [that] the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? [there is] no searching of his understanding.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

People who say "the sinner's prayer" of repentance - but make no effort to put it to practice in their lives, are only deceiving themselves! They can't get to heaven that way! People who are deceived into thinking that can get them to heaven, are those who think they can get that wonderful gift of salvation completely for free. Have you ever noticed how quick people are to accept a free gift that they really want? There are some things that everyone wants. And salvation is one of those things. They may not all know about Jesus and the salvation that comes through Him. But no one wants to end up in a place like hell! So in effect, they do all want salvation. But only those who are willing to "pay"(accept Jesus as Lord and Savior of their life) the hugely reduced "cost" (the cost of having perfect righteousness and having never sinned) they must "pay" "(accept Jesus as Lord and Savior of their life) can be saved.
Luke 14:27-28
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
KJV

Matt 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
KJV

Matt 7:21, "the kingdom of heaven" is one of many names that the church is called by in the scriptures, such as; the kingdom of God, the church of God, Zion, the church in the wilderness, the church of the first born, the new Jerusalem, the church of Christ, the church of God, and more. Due to church discipline, some that practice sin are restricted from church membership, that will be accepted into eternal heaven.

Anytime that there is a work required to enter, it is not eternal heaven, otherwise, it would result in eternal salvation by works, and the scriptures will refute that theory.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

People who say "the sinner's prayer" of repentance - but make no effort to put it to practice in their lives, are only deceiving themselves! They can't get to heaven that way! People who are deceived into thinking that can get them to heaven, are those who think they can get that wonderful gift of salvation completely for free. Have you ever noticed how quick people are to accept a free gift that they really want? There are some things that everyone wants. And salvation is one of those things. They may not all know about Jesus and the salvation that comes through Him. But no one wants to end up in a place like hell! So in effect, they do all want salvation. But only those who are willing to "pay"(accept Jesus as Lord and Savior of their life) the hugely reduced "cost" (the cost of having perfect righteousness and having never sinned) they must "pay" "(accept Jesus as Lord and Savior of their life) can be saved.
Luke 14:27-28
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
KJV

Matt 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
KJV

Jesus died as a sacrifice for God's elect, and his sacrifice was for God's acceptance, and not for mankind's acceptance.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

People who do not believe that God exists may not believe in the existence of heaven or hell, either

That is probably a truthful statement.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

oh no were on Lordship salvation again .
Notice Jesus never knew them. We have to have both . Know God and be known by him . ( Gal 4 ) 9But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
There is only one command to obey in the church age and its be reconciled to God. 1 cor 5.19 - 20 .
Jesus already paid the cost . He already died for their sins . But they need to recieve through believing the Gospel .

You can not have it both ways. If Jesus has already paid the cost by having died for their sins, then all of their sins are paid for whether they believe or not. But whose sins did he die for? Answer = Those that his Father gave to him. They were in him before the foundation of the world, and they were in him, by covenant, when he was crucified. 2 Tim 2:13, For if we believe not, yet he abideth faithful, he cannot deny himself.

 

[Magenta]

That is probably a truthful statement.

Probably?

I have spoken to those who did not believe in the One true God, yet they thought it was unfair that they should be denied "going to heaven." So rejecting God, and rejecting the realities of heaven and hell, are not always mutually exclusive. Still, it struck me as odd that some of those who rejected God still wanted to go to heaven. There were those too who put on a pretense of celebrating the idea of being in/going to hell as if were going to be one big happy party with cool people. As to their being denied heaven, I would simply point out to them that there was no reason God should allow them entrance to His abode if/when they denied His very existence.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

oh no were on Lordship salvation again .
Notice Jesus never knew them. We have to have both . Know God and be known by him . ( Gal 4 ) 9But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
There is only one command to obey in the church age and its be reconciled to God. 1 cor 5.19 - 20 .
Jesus already paid the cost . He already died for their sins . But they need to recieve through believing the Gospel .

You are right on the true path, God's speed in your journey.

 

[Magenta]

You can not have it both ways. If Jesus has already paid the cost by having died for their sins, then all of their sins are paid for whether they believe or not. But whose sins did he die for? Answer = Those that his Father gave to him. They were in him before the foundation of the world, and they were in him, by covenant, when he was crucified. 2 Tim 2:13, For if we believe not, yet he abideth faithful, he cannot deny himself.

Salvation is conditioned upon belief in the shed righteous blood of Christ.

Christ's atoning sacrifice is sufficient for all, but effective only for those who believe by grace through faith.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Probably?

I have spoken to those who did not believe in the One true God, yet they thought it was unfair that they should be denied "going to heaven." So rejecting God, and rejecting the realities of heaven and hell, are not always mutually exclusive. Still, it struck me as odd that some of those who rejected God still wanted to go to heaven. There were those too who put on a pretense of celebrating the idea of being in/going to hell as if were going to be one big happy party with cool people. As to their being denied heaven, I would simply point out to them that there was no reason God should allow them entrance to His abode if/when they denied His very existence.

A word of "causchion" (this word is probably misspelled), I believe the scriptures teach us that God is not pleased with us if we try to determine who are, or are not going to heaven, or hell. David, as king of Israel, Got himself into a lot of trouble with God for trying to number Israel, (God's elect) which cost him thousands of lives of the Israelites.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Salvation is conditioned upon belief in the shed righteous blood of Christ.

Christ's atoning sacrifice is sufficient for all, but effective only for those who believe by grace through faith.

Then how do you interpret 2 Tim 2:13? All scriptures must harmonize before you are able to understand the truths of the doctrine of Christ.

 

[Magenta]

A word of "causchion" (this word is probably misspelled), I believe the scriptures teach us that God is not pleased with us if we try to determine who are, or are not going to heaven, or hell. David, as king of Israel, Got himself into a lot of trouble with God for trying to number Israel, (God's elect) which cost him thousands of lives of the Israelites.

No need to caution me on this point (that is the correct spelling )

 

[Magenta]

Then how do you interpret 2 Tim 2:13? All scriptures must harmonize before you are able to understand the truths of the doctrine of Christ.

Who do you think is being addressed in that verse? Unbelievers? Those who have never accepted Christ?

 

[throughfaith]

You are right on the true path, God's speed in your journey.

Hopefully you don't take

You can not have it both ways. If Jesus has already paid the cost by having died for their sins, then all of their sins are paid for whether they believe or not. But whose sins did he die for? Answer = Those that his Father gave to him. They were in him before the foundation of the world, and they were in him, by covenant, when he was crucified. 2 Tim 2:13, For if we believe not, yet he abideth faithful, he cannot deny himself.

1 Cor. 15:17.

Atonement is one component of many components in salvation. It alone is not what saves. (Tit. 3:5; Rom. 5:10)

Atonement is a prerequisite for salvation, not the execution of it. (Rom. 5, 8; 2 Cor. 5; Tit. 3:5).

The Atonement must be received. (Rom. 5:11, 17; Jn. 1:12; 1 Cor. 15:1-4)

The Atonement does not glorify anyone. (Rom. 8)

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Who do you think is being addressed in that verse? Unbelievers? Those who have never accepted Christ?

I believe that I know who he is addressing, but I would like to hear who you think he is addressing, so I don't sway your answer.

 

[Lanolin]

well its like students who go to school and dont do what the teacher instructs them to do, why are they even in school??? Maybe their parents force them to go. They obviously dont want to be there or are interested in learning.

Jesus said this as a kind of rhetorical question to weed out the chaff from the wheat.