Born Again Speaking in Tongues

7seasrekeyed · May 27, 2019

respectfully Footprint:

I did not ask you. are you and Wansvic of the same denomination? are you oneness as some are now suggesting?

I suggest you might read my post again because I covered baptism in it

my question is directly to Wansvic concerning her many comments on baptism

I would ask you however, why do I need the name of Jesus pronounced over me?

I have called on the Lord Jesus thousands of times during my lifetime but yet someone has to say 'Jesus' over me?

what on earth?

Footprint · May 27, 2019

7seasrekeyed said:

In Matthew 28:19 Jesus was telling them what to DO, not what to repeat verbatim. Keeping in mind that verse is NOT an actual baptism taking place, ALL baptisms are full imersion and having the NAME of Jesus pronounced over them and thus fulfilling the command.

Note that Jesus told Nicodemus that to be Born again was of WATER AND SPIRIT.
In fact, it is so important, that is why Peter commanded them to be baptized, so to complete the new birth...

Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
[47] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
[48] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Father, Son, Holy Ghost are not even Names. Peter puts it this way...

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

We can sum it up this way, “What is the NAME of your dad?”

-Thank you.

Footprint · May 27, 2019

7seasrekeyed said:

I don't like to use a denominational tag because Paul warned against any divisions in the church...

1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
[12] Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

Regardless of Paul's concern, we now have thousands of divisions. Some are of the Pope (Catholic), some are of Martin Luther (the German monk who began the Protestant Reformation) and the list goes on.

-Thank you.

Waggles · May 27, 2019

Footprint said:

Yahweh - IAM that I AM
but I usually refer to him as Father when I pray to him through Jesus my God and my Lord.

7seasrekeyed · May 27, 2019

Footprint said:

well you teaching on baptism is unorthodox, so you do have a tag whether or not you want to mention it

irregardless of your dislike of the usage of a denom name, all who are in the Lord Jesus Christ are of His body whether or not
you approve

the distinction you are making is that you believe your teaching on baptism using Jesus name only, is correct and all others are wrong

that being the case, you have a tag and is seems to be 'oneness'

CS1 · May 27, 2019

Wansvic said:

that is not what I asked you and you know it.

I asked you :
Can one have the Holy Spirit and not be saved Yes or no.
The Book of Acts records those who were saved and yet were not empowered by the Holy Spirit.

I asked you does one have to be baptized water in the name of Jesus only to be saved?

You did not answer these questions. Yes you are being dishonest

7seasrekeyed · May 27, 2019

Footprint said:

listen, I plainly said in my post...not addressed to you...that I am baptized

you would not approve however because it was not in Jesus name only. however, it was done in accordance with Jesus' words so I am not going to worry over the fact you believe otherwise

Jesus said God is His Father....and in fact the Father called Jesus His Son when Jesus was baptized and the Holy Spirit is also called the Holy Spirit in scripture

you do understand that your teaching is considered to be a different gospel?

have you considered the fact that Jesus did not raise Himself from the dead?

11 The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you. Romans 8:11

so there we have the Spirit of God raising Jesus from the dead

ALL THREE

whatcha gonna do about it?

folks...read your Bibles so that you do not fall for this oneness baptize in Jesus name only.

Footprint · May 27, 2019

7seasrekeyed said:

To put a tag upon me, as you have just done, would be an error on your part.

Here is an example...

1. Atheists believe the world is round
2. I believe the world is round
3. Therefore I must be an atheist

-Thank you.

7seasrekeyed · May 27, 2019

oh one more thing

why would Jesus tell Nicodemus to be baptized for salvation when He had not even died yet ?

was Jesus giving Nicodemus the rules for salvation?

that's pretty strange since Jesus was not baptizing anyone and never did

you have to really hurt scripture to come up with this baptizing is part of salvation

baptism is obedience to illustrate our new life in Christ...we are buried with Him, immersion, and we rise with Him

following is sourced from 'The Berean Call'

Christ commanded His original disciples to go into all the world and preach the gospel (Mk 16:15). Those of every nation who believed in Christ as their Savior were to be baptized "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Mat:28:19
). These new disciples were to preach the gospel everywhere and to baptize those who believed (v 20) through their testimony as Christianity spread worldwide.

Baptism in the early church was by immersion: "they went down both into the water....[W]hen they were come up out of the water" (Acts:8:38-39
), etc. Why? Because baptism symbolizes the believer's identification with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection: "we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead...we also should walk in newness of life" (Rom:6:4
).

Unfortunately, various innovations and heresies were gradually introduced regarding baptism: that one must be baptized to be saved; indeed, that baptism itself saves the soul even when administered to infants. These heresies became known as the doctrine of baptismal regeneration. Most Protestants holding these beliefs today are not aware that they originated with the Roman Catholic Church in the Middle Ages.

7seasrekeyed · May 27, 2019

Baptism as a part of salvation is a CATHOLIC teaching

The Council of Trent (1545-63) stated that while Christ "merited for us justification by His most holy passion...the instrumental cause [of justification/regeneration] is the sacrament of baptism....If anyone says that baptism is...not necessary for salvation, let him be anathema."1 Vatican II (1962-65) reconfirms all of Trent2 and reiterates the necessity of baptism for salvation,3 as does the universal Catechism of the Catholic Church released by the Vatican in 1993: "Baptism is necessary for salvation...the Church does not know of any [other] means...that assures entry into eternal beatitude...." 4

Trent anathematizes all who deny that "the merit of Jesus Christ is applied...to infants by the sacrament of baptism" or who deny that by baptism "the guilt of original sin is remitted...." 5 Today's Code of Canon Law (Canon 849) declares that those baptized are thereby "freed from their sins, are reborn as children of God and... incorporated in the Church." Canon 204 states, "The Christian faithful are those who...have been incorporated in Christ through baptism" and are thereby members of the one, true Catholic Church.6

source

7seasrekeyed · May 27, 2019

Bible believe Christians were PERSECUTED by the Catholic church....this baptismal regeneration teaching is FALSE! Don't fall for it

For centuries before the Reformation, baptismal regeneration was rejected by Bible-believing Christians, whom the Roman Catholic Church therefore persecuted, tortured and slaughtered by the millions. Non-Catholics taught from Scripture that baptism was only for those who had believed the gospel: "teach all nations...baptizing them [who have believed]" (Mat:28:19
); "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized" (Acts:2:41
); "[W]hat doth hinder me to be baptized?...If thou believest [in Christ] with all thine heart, thou mayest" (Acts:8:35-37
). Infants can't believe in Christ.

Consider Cornelius's household: they heard the gospel, believed it and were baptized. That there were no infants baptized is also clear, for they had all gathered "to hear all things that are commanded thee of God" (Acts:10:33
). "[T]he Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard [and, obviously, understood and believed] the word" (v 44); and they spoke with tongues (v 46). That they had "received the Holy Ghost" (v. 47) convinced Peter that they were saved. Therefore, he baptized them (v 48).

Nor can infant baptism be supported from the case of the Philippian jailor who "was baptized, he and all his" (Acts:16:33
). Again there were no infants present because Paul and Silas preached the gospel "to all that were in his house" (v. 32), and "all his house" believed (v 34) and were then baptized.

The early Reformers such as Martin Luther were Catholics who, unfortunately, retained some Catholic dogmas, among them baptismal regeneration and infant baptism. These heresies are still held by some Protestant denominations today. The issue is a serious one. If baptism is essential for salvation, then to reject that gospel is to be damned. But if salvation is through faith in Christ alone, then to add baptism as a condition for salvation is to reject the true gospel and thus to be eternally lost. The Bible declares that it is wrong to teach salvation by faith in Christ plus anything else, such as keeping the Jewish law (Acts:15:24

). Paul cursed (anathematized) those who taught this false gospel that damns the soul (Gal:1:8-9
). A gospel of salvation through Christ plus baptism is equally false.

SAME SOURCE

Waggles · May 27, 2019

So if one believes the gospel of salvation, then why would one refuse water baptism?
And if one chooses not to be baptised then how does God view this disobedience?
God commands that as well as baptism of the Holy Spirit with the Bible evidence of speaking in a new tongue, that believers
also need to be baptized in water by full immersion.

So if you ain't where does that end up ... ??

7seasrekeyed · May 27, 2019

who is refusing to be baptized?

is the rumor mill at it again?

stonesoffire · May 27, 2019

wolfwint said:

It’s my opinion that those who denied the Lord or left Him when apprehended, plus doubted He was risen were repentant at this time, and received the Spirit of Christ which we all receive when we believe. I have no idea about Matthias or Thomas.

I do know though that the Jews called their water baptism being born again for they repented and turned to God. Is why Jesus questioned Nicodemus as to why he didn’t understand being born again.

But, no one can come to Father except through the Son. I believe the Jews that followed the heart of the law and believed in blood sacrifice went to Abraham’s bosom, not to heaven. And the priesthood now is changed.

stonesoffire · May 27, 2019

7seasrekeyed said:

This is a Sonship teaching seven.. It’s not something that should be argued this way, IMO. I’ll try to explain. One scripture says in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; the other says in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Well Lord Jesus Christ is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit IN ENGLISH. To be accurate we would have to speak their Hebrew names. 😇

It shouldn’t be forced on anyone. When I first heard this my desire was to be rebaptized. We all should know by now that we aren’t under law and if we do anything under compunction, what does it profit?

I do believe though that we are to follow the pattern of Jesus, but faith alone in Him really is all we need to enter heaven.

A religious spirit can affect the thinking of any one of us. God is after the heart, not what we perform.

7seasrekeyed · May 27, 2019

stonesoffire said:

did you miss the part where they teach you are not saved if you are not baptized and not saved unless you are baptized in the name of Jesus only?

you are not addressing the actual problem regarding baptismal regeneration

we do not have to speak any Hebrew names

if a Russian person is saved and never says a Hebrew name in his life, it does not matter

I know what you believe regarding religious spirits and that is not what is going on here

there is only one way to be saved and that is through the blood of Jesus

that is NOT something that we just pass over or need to mature into

we are talking about salvation here, who saves, how He saves and what occurs

this is not about the law. not sure where you got that from

stonesoffire · May 27, 2019

did you miss the part where they teach you are not saved if you are not baptized and not saved unless you are baptized in the name of Jesus only?

you are not addressing the actual problem regarding baptismal regeneration

we do not have to speak any Hebrew names

if a Russian person is saved and never says a Hebrew name in his life, it does not matter

I know what you believe regarding religious spirits and that is not what is going on here

there is only one way to be saved and that is through the blood of Jesus

that is NOT something that we just pass over or need to mature into

we are talking about salvation here, who saves, how He saves and what occurs

this is not about the law. not sure where you got that from

I wasn’t addressing anything except where the teaching of the baptizing in the name originated. I saw that you mentioned oneness.

If we say that we have to do anything to gain entrance into heaven except by the blood sacrifice (grace) its of law. That’s what I meant by faith in Him.

And mentioning Hebrew was meant to be a joke, ??

7seasrekeyed · May 27, 2019

"stonesoffire, post: 3934796, member: 181848"

I wasn’t addressing anything except where the teaching of the baptizing in the name originated. I saw that you mentioned oneness.

If we say that we have to do anything to gain entrance into heaven except by the blood sacrifice (grace) its of law. That’s what I meant by faith in Him.

And mentioning Hebrew was meant to be a joke, ??

actually no I am not the person who brought up oneness at all.

several other people brought that up, including CS who is posting to Wansvic

you make my point right here:

If we say that we have to do anything to gain entrance into heaven except by the blood sacrifice (grace) its of law.

both footprint and wansvic believe in baptismal regeneration

while I disagree about 'Jesus only', that would be one thing

but saying baptism is actually removing sin and you must say "Jesus only" is the problem here

I posted parts of an article that explains the entire thing but does require reading. it addresses the actual problem here

sorry I missed the 'joke'. (sheepishly apologizes)

stonesoffire · May 27, 2019

I should of butted out because I wasn’t reading the posts. Was thinking about the post to wolf. Just saw a few remarks about Jesus only.

It’s a ridiculous argument but at one time I thought it was right. Never heard though about water baptism regeneration.

I’ve been around...lol

Wansvic · May 28, 2019

7seasrekeyed said:

The biblical record makes it clear that everyone MUST be water baptized in Jesus' name.

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