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Jesus called all to repent or perish (Luke 13:3). For some people though, prior to coming to the end result of repentance in receiving salvation (faith in Christ for salvation), they must change their minds about other specific things in order to get there.
Repentance, metanoia, focuses on changing one's mind about his previous concept of God (as in Acts 17:30) and disbelief in God or false beliefs (polytheism and idolatry) about God (see 1 Thessalonians 1:9). On the other hand, belief/faith in Christ, focuses on the new direction that change about God must ultimately take, namely, trusting exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation.
Repentance is necessary for salvation, because if we don't change our mind about our sinful position and need for Christ to save us and any form of self-trust in human works, religious tradition, etc. then we won't believe the gospel and become saved (Romans 1:16). Prior to repentance unto life (Acts 11:17,18) there is no saving belief in Christ.
Repentance, metanoia, focuses on changing one's mind about his previous concept of God (as in Acts 17:30) and disbelief in God or false beliefs (polytheism and idolatry) about God (see 1 Thessalonians 1:9). On the other hand, belief/faith in Christ, focuses on the new direction that change about God must ultimately take, namely, trusting exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation.
Repentance is necessary for salvation, because if we don't change our mind about our sinful position and need for Christ to save us and any form of self-trust in human works, religious tradition, etc. then we won't believe the gospel and become saved (Romans 1:16). Prior to repentance unto life (Acts 11:17,18) there is no saving belief in Christ.
You just answered your own question. They have not repented yet, thats why they do not believe.
Faith is what brings the willingness to repent. Everyone CAN repent. No one WILL repent unless they BELIEVE that they need to repent. This is elementary.
You pulled that definition out of the air for sure. An action is not something you do to EARN anything. Yes, you can do an action with that motive in mind, but not all actions have to do with earning something. I hope the others reading these posts can clearly see the error of your statements. You don't have to earn something that is freely given. But you do have to obey the instructions of the person that is freely giving it to you.
Again you contradict scripture. Verse 3 was Jesus telling what had to take place: Be born again. Verse 5 was Jesus telling him HOW to do that: water and spirit. Which brings us back on the original topic of this thread - You must be born of water which is water baptism.
I haven't given you an attitude. I realize that you cannot read someone's tone or inflection in text format but i am not being smart. I am simply giving you scripture to prove your doctrine wrong. Yes, being born again is something you must DO to be saved. Jesus said so and you called him a liar. Just because you say you don't have to do it, doesn't change the bible. All of scripture is in harmony with the understanding that being born of the water is water baptism.
Now here is the condemnation and judgementalism, along with unbelief.
If you think you are called to walk in the ways of Jesus, you are pushing works-salvation
therefore unsaved and evil, a hypocrite.
In the hierarchy of this belief, the impossible thing for God to do is make a believer pure and holy.
He can only cover them in Christs blood and redeem them by a new heavenly provided spirit.
The picture is sinner bound in sin.
Sinner bound in sin with new eternal spirit from God.
Saved new eternal spirit from God.
The trouble with this picture, the believer is never saved, they are destroyed, just
the new spirit is saved, but this came from God anyway, and is not actually part of
the believer. They con-themselves that their flesh is doomed, and their sin is locked
in with their flesh, but the new spirit is perfect and eternal, which they just need to
practice being. They believe this is now their true selves, except they will never experience
this because they will always be lost in sin until they die.
So the real person is never actually redeemed or cleansed or purified or made Holy.
It is why their whole world view is so split and schizophrenic. Paul walked in the Spirit
and found release and freedom, but this can never happen for these believers.
It is gnostic in a real sense, and powerless over the flesh. But then they do not believe
they need to be free from the passions of the flesh and evil, because it does not defile
their perfect spirit, only the evil flesh.
And in their mind, once they are given this new eternal spirit, that is it, they are sealed
eternally, into heaven, no matter what they do. So no matter what scripture says they
will reinterpret it to fit their model, and apply parts of the same sentence to their view.
As one member put it, when non-believers come along it is good to behave as if they have
changed, for the sake of the gospel, but otherwise it is meaningless. It is also why they
are impervious to clear scripture which teaches this view is non-existent.
Of course I could never be pure and blameless because I still have my body, so I must be
lying and evil and deceived, irrespective of what God calls me.
It is no surprise that the arguments go round in circles because the faith systems are totally
different, while the gnostics claim they have the same faith, we are just evil, which is ironic,
because they believe they are also evil, lol. They truly need Gods love and sight, or else they
will get the judgement for what they honestly admit they are, sinners caught in continual sin.
If you think you are called to walk in the ways of Jesus, you are pushing works-salvation
therefore unsaved and evil, a hypocrite.
In the hierarchy of this belief, the impossible thing for God to do is make a believer pure and holy.
He can only cover them in Christs blood and redeem them by a new heavenly provided spirit.
The picture is sinner bound in sin.
Sinner bound in sin with new eternal spirit from God.
Saved new eternal spirit from God.
The trouble with this picture, the believer is never saved, they are destroyed, just
the new spirit is saved, but this came from God anyway, and is not actually part of
the believer. They con-themselves that their flesh is doomed, and their sin is locked
in with their flesh, but the new spirit is perfect and eternal, which they just need to
practice being. They believe this is now their true selves, except they will never experience
this because they will always be lost in sin until they die.
So the real person is never actually redeemed or cleansed or purified or made Holy.
It is why their whole world view is so split and schizophrenic. Paul walked in the Spirit
and found release and freedom, but this can never happen for these believers.
It is gnostic in a real sense, and powerless over the flesh. But then they do not believe
they need to be free from the passions of the flesh and evil, because it does not defile
their perfect spirit, only the evil flesh.
And in their mind, once they are given this new eternal spirit, that is it, they are sealed
eternally, into heaven, no matter what they do. So no matter what scripture says they
will reinterpret it to fit their model, and apply parts of the same sentence to their view.
As one member put it, when non-believers come along it is good to behave as if they have
changed, for the sake of the gospel, but otherwise it is meaningless. It is also why they
are impervious to clear scripture which teaches this view is non-existent.
Of course I could never be pure and blameless because I still have my body, so I must be
lying and evil and deceived, irrespective of what God calls me.
It is no surprise that the arguments go round in circles because the faith systems are totally
different, while the gnostics claim they have the same faith, we are just evil, which is ironic,
because they believe they are also evil, lol. They truly need Gods love and sight, or else they
will get the judgement for what they honestly admit they are, sinners caught in continual sin.
I would offer... It has much to do with the meaning of the word repent.It would seem in many cases it has become a work of the flesh as a way of receiving the eternal spirit . .Just change your mind ?
Like many word new meaning are added which could take away from the authors intent .God repents as a way of comforting himself. Rather than not having mercy, he repents.
Does it mean he changed his mind? No. He is of one mind and alawsy does whatsoever His soul pleases.it is God who does make our hearts soft.
Christ has begun the good work of salivation to include turning us so that we can repent .He alone who began it (not us as to how some define repent ) will finish all the requirements .
It’s not I will change my mind as my own source of believing that not seen.. It includes turning us so that we can comfort yourself as the comforter brings to mind that which he has taught us. Then we can be ashamed knowing we are forgiven.
Because we did bear the reproach of our youth.(not bear the wage of sin.}
Scripture defines the word it uses. Sometimes other meanings creep in and make the true without effect.
It’s easy to see the main thought of repent is to comfort as work of the comforter .
Strongs lexicon....05162 nacham {naw-kham'}
a primitive root; TWOT - 1344; vAV - comfort 57, repent 41, comforter 9, ease 1; 108
1) to be sorry, console oneself, repent, regret, comfort, be comforted 1a) (Niphal) 1a1) to be sorry, be moved to pity, have compassion 1a2) to be sorry, rue, suffer grief, repent 1a3) to comfort oneself, be comforted 1a4) to comfort oneself, ease oneself 1b) (Piel) to comfort, console 1c) (Pual) to be comforted, be consoled 1d) (Hithpael) 1d1) to be sorry, have compassion 1d2) to rue, repent of 1d3) to comfort oneself, be comforted 1d4) to ease oneself
Interestingly he uses a bullock a wild animal to represent as unbeliever just as he uses an Ass in the same way in various parables. The bullock represents one who has not repented... natural man.
The use of the word after is the key to understanding the parable that does define the word repent..
.
I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: “turn” (a work of God) thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the LORD my God.Surely after that I was turned, “I repented;” and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth. Jer 31:18
Like many word new meaning are added which could take away from the authors intent .God repents as a way of comforting himself. Rather than not having mercy, he repents.
Does it mean he changed his mind? No. He is of one mind and alawsy does whatsoever His soul pleases.it is God who does make our hearts soft.
Christ has begun the good work of salivation to include turning us so that we can repent .He alone who began it (not us as to how some define repent ) will finish all the requirements .
It’s not I will change my mind as my own source of believing that not seen.. It includes turning us so that we can comfort yourself as the comforter brings to mind that which he has taught us. Then we can be ashamed knowing we are forgiven.
Because we did bear the reproach of our youth.(not bear the wage of sin.}
Scripture defines the word it uses. Sometimes other meanings creep in and make the true without effect.
It’s easy to see the main thought of repent is to comfort as work of the comforter .
Strongs lexicon....05162 nacham {naw-kham'}
a primitive root; TWOT - 1344; vAV - comfort 57, repent 41, comforter 9, ease 1; 108
1) to be sorry, console oneself, repent, regret, comfort, be comforted 1a) (Niphal) 1a1) to be sorry, be moved to pity, have compassion 1a2) to be sorry, rue, suffer grief, repent 1a3) to comfort oneself, be comforted 1a4) to comfort oneself, ease oneself 1b) (Piel) to comfort, console 1c) (Pual) to be comforted, be consoled 1d) (Hithpael) 1d1) to be sorry, have compassion 1d2) to rue, repent of 1d3) to comfort oneself, be comforted 1d4) to ease oneself
Interestingly he uses a bullock a wild animal to represent as unbeliever just as he uses an Ass in the same way in various parables. The bullock represents one who has not repented... natural man.
The use of the word after is the key to understanding the parable that does define the word repent..
.
I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: “turn” (a work of God) thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the LORD my God.Surely after that I was turned, “I repented;” and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth. Jer 31:18
E
what i thin we see is people take words like repent, baptise and other words and give them a “church” definition that is interpreted different that it was when first written. And that causes all these different beliefs and confusion.
People use their belief system to interpret the word, instead of using the word to form their belief system
People use their belief system to interpret the word, instead of using the word to form their belief system
Here is an odd understanding of language and grammar.
How does one communicate you do two things at the same time.
You say this and that.
If you mean one thing follows the other you say this then that.
So the phrase "Repent and believe" is doing the two things together.
So John preaches "Repent for the Kingdom of God is near"
So repentance because of Gods nearness.
Jonah preached
"Forty more days and Nineveh will be overturned."
The Ninevites believed God. They declared a fast, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth.
Jonah 3:4-5
So the Ninevites believed God and repented. The two things were together as one.
What is odd to me is why any believer would want to say repentance precede the
gospel, other than to establish in their own mind why repentance is no longer part
of the gospel. This is a new formula from the ones I have heard before, so they must
be scrabbling at straws.
How does one communicate you do two things at the same time.
You say this and that.
If you mean one thing follows the other you say this then that.
So the phrase "Repent and believe" is doing the two things together.
So John preaches "Repent for the Kingdom of God is near"
So repentance because of Gods nearness.
Jonah preached
"Forty more days and Nineveh will be overturned."
The Ninevites believed God. They declared a fast, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth.
Jonah 3:4-5
So the Ninevites believed God and repented. The two things were together as one.
What is odd to me is why any believer would want to say repentance precede the
gospel, other than to establish in their own mind why repentance is no longer part
of the gospel. This is a new formula from the ones I have heard before, so they must
be scrabbling at straws.
E
No, Your tryingn to make a mockery out of what is said, and refusing to listen to a word. If you do not believe a word of the gospel. It is BECAUSE you have not repented. If you repented. You would believ.
If the speed limit is 55 MPH, and you think you are ok if you drive 75. The speed limit is not enforcable, so in your view, You do not believe the speed limit is 55. And your actions follow your belief, WHen you get a ticket for driving 75 in a 55. Your belief will not help you get out of that ticket.
You have to repent. And BELIEVE that the speed limit is 55 or you will continue on in your own way.
Same goes with the gospel.
If you do not believe you are a sinner, and because of your sin, headed to hell. You will never believe in the gospel. You have to repent. And understand that you are a sinner, and thus fall short of the glory of God before you will even give an ear to the gospel of jesus. Let alone BELIEVE in Jesus.
Wrong. Repentance is what brings us to faith. Eeryone can claim they believe in Jesus But unless they repent, they will never have faith in jesus, they will continue to be an enemy of Jesus and have faith in SELF (which is our state before we are saved)
The context of our conversation is doing somethign to recieve a gift. So in context. I am right.
EPh 4. Not of works lest any man should boast (take credit)
ROM 4, If abraham was found by works, he has something to boast about., but not before God. He also called it a wage.
Grace is given, it is can not be earned, by water baptism, or any other ACTION a person does.
Repent is not an ACTION, it is a change of mibnd
FAITH is not an action, it is entrusting ourtselves to whatever we are placing our faith in.
OUT of these things, come actions.
1. You CAN’T earn somethign that is freely given.
2. Yet people want to claim you HAVE to do something in earder to recieve what is freely given (In the case of this thread. People are claiming we must perform water baptism in order to recieve the gift of salvation)
Talk about hard headed.
verse 3 is telling us what must happen. (Born again) vs 5 tells us what that looks like (born of water and spirit) and vs 10 - 21 tells us HO)W that takes place (believe or entrust our lives to Christ) I can not go out and make myself born of water and spirit. Any more than I could make myself come out of my mothers womb.
You can not “born again” your self. You have to be made alive. That is what scripture says. Titus 3 :5 says the washing of regeneration was done By God, Eph 2: 1 and 5 says he made us alive, we can not make ourselves alive, Col 2. Again, says we were made alive, Being made alive is what born again means. You can not make yourself alive, You can not make yourself born again.
But Like I said, if you want to earn your salvation feel free. And good luck.
If the speed limit is 55 MPH, and you think you are ok if you drive 75. The speed limit is not enforcable, so in your view, You do not believe the speed limit is 55. And your actions follow your belief, WHen you get a ticket for driving 75 in a 55. Your belief will not help you get out of that ticket.
You have to repent. And BELIEVE that the speed limit is 55 or you will continue on in your own way.
Same goes with the gospel.
If you do not believe you are a sinner, and because of your sin, headed to hell. You will never believe in the gospel. You have to repent. And understand that you are a sinner, and thus fall short of the glory of God before you will even give an ear to the gospel of jesus. Let alone BELIEVE in Jesus.
Wrong. Repentance is what brings us to faith. Eeryone can claim they believe in Jesus But unless they repent, they will never have faith in jesus, they will continue to be an enemy of Jesus and have faith in SELF (which is our state before we are saved)
The context of our conversation is doing somethign to recieve a gift. So in context. I am right.
EPh 4. Not of works lest any man should boast (take credit)
ROM 4, If abraham was found by works, he has something to boast about., but not before God. He also called it a wage.
Grace is given, it is can not be earned, by water baptism, or any other ACTION a person does.
Repent is not an ACTION, it is a change of mibnd
FAITH is not an action, it is entrusting ourtselves to whatever we are placing our faith in.
OUT of these things, come actions.
1. You CAN’T earn somethign that is freely given.
2. Yet people want to claim you HAVE to do something in earder to recieve what is freely given (In the case of this thread. People are claiming we must perform water baptism in order to recieve the gift of salvation)
Talk about hard headed.
verse 3 is telling us what must happen. (Born again) vs 5 tells us what that looks like (born of water and spirit) and vs 10 - 21 tells us HO)W that takes place (believe or entrust our lives to Christ) I can not go out and make myself born of water and spirit. Any more than I could make myself come out of my mothers womb.
You can not “born again” your self. You have to be made alive. That is what scripture says. Titus 3 :5 says the washing of regeneration was done By God, Eph 2: 1 and 5 says he made us alive, we can not make ourselves alive, Col 2. Again, says we were made alive, Being made alive is what born again means. You can not make yourself alive, You can not make yourself born again.
But Like I said, if you want to earn your salvation feel free. And good luck.