Baptism and holy spirit

[notuptome]

that is for you to see not me

but way what has been said by the word of God:

Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead and Lazarus is dead today or the oldest man alive.
Context to what is assumed as uncommon faith and asking God to do something out of pride, and mockery

Heb 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.


the idea that one would ask God to move a mount and throw it into the sea is not what Jesus was driving at IF we read the full chapter .
Have faith in GOD and do not doubt. is what Jesus was saying .
why do we not see ?

many reasons

1, disbelief
2. asking out of the will of God
3. un-forgivness

james 4:3 "You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures."

1John 5:15 "And if we know that he hears us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we desired of him."
Jesus said in Luke 11NLT

Once Jesus was in a certain place praying. As he finished, one of his disciples came to him and said, “Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples.”

Jesus said in the context of what to do to ensure your prayers are answered.


Is there an appeal to receive Christ and repent ?

I asked about raising the dead.

Are you going to join the name it claim it crowd?

I have seen many who suffered for the glory of God.

Ps 44:22 Yea, for thy sake are we killed all the day long; we are counted as sheep for the slaughter.

Never doubted Gods ability to answer prayer. Have no intention to provoke God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Noose]

there are many things happening today but scoffing and mocking will not provide confirmation. Jesus did many things and yet they too dis-believed . Jesus even told them to believe in the very works that HE did too. Yes faith or the lack thereof is a big reason . it takes faith to do the following

1 to be willing to pray for the sick in a hospital
2. To preach the gospel to those on the streets
3. to ask God for the gifts of the Holy Spirit

the wonderful working of God salvation, healing , deliverance are still happening today. And I don't need to see it to believe God has done it . I have heard witnesses, and I have seen God do many wonderful things . But the word of God is clear 2Pet 3:3

"
Most importantly, I want to remind you that in the last days scoffers will come, mocking the truth and following their own desires.".

Oohhh!!!
How is it a gift if it depends on the recipient?
Demons were driven from mad people, from whence did the mad people get faith?
The dead were raised, from whence did the dead people get faith?
Others are very sick and unresponsive, why do you require faith to heal them?

It is very easy to recognize fake signs- when someone tells you you have no faith that's why you were not healed, run very fast

Mocking fake signs is what we all need to do and even encourage others, otherwise if we let them be, we will be mocking God.

 

[CS1]

Yes i can just like i can say there's no raising of the dead today - did you also see many being raised from death?
You have seen tongues being interpreted?!!, how did you confirm that the interpretation is true?

I do not need to see many raised form the dead and if I did ,you would not believe anyway So I will not cast my pearls figuratively speaking salvation is the best resurrection from the Dead the Bible speaks of. And yes I have seen and yes I have been used in tongues and interpretation. It was confirmed by the outcome of what was said at the time.

How those who heard it Judged what was said by the word of God and what was said comforted, or edified , or exhorted and God was Glorified. NOT the gift was but God was .
Just as 1cor 12, 13, and 14 say. done and operated in LOVE



I would agree with you there are misuses of the gifts of the Holy Spirit as all gifts . None more than the Pastor But the Pastors and preachers etc.. still are valid gifts to the Equipping of the church body. They have not ceased nor has any of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit

 

[CS1]

Haaa!!!
And this is where you are wrong- you need to learn a thing or two.

"God is still healing and God is still raising the dead." Very true- i myself have been healed from diabetes, thank God.

The difference between 1st century church/disciples/apostles and now is that they were appointed to do that; their mandate was to spread the gospel to the world and were specifically appointed to do signs and wonders to help in their quest to spread the gospel. So they had ministries. For example- healing the sick was a ministry coz people would witness or hear about it and believe in the gospel- therefore we say they have been ministered to. same thing with raising the dead.
Paul's handkerchief or even shadow would heal masses.

Whoever thinks they are in the ministry of healing today let them walk into the nearest cancer/AIDS ward and put their gifts to test and maybe minister to the many lost souls. It won't happen because they'd be thoroughly embarrassed, all we have is fake signs of people coaching others to fake some sickness and claim healing in some private gathering somewhere- let them try their gift in a busy hospital.

If anyone thinks they can pray for the dead to be raised, let them walk to the nearest mog and put that gift into practice. Non would dare do that for fear of embarrassment. All we hear today is someone prayed and a dead body came to life, no witnesses whatsoever. And for this one we know it is impossible because:

Rev 14:
13Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.”

“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”

14I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of manbwith a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.

17Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.”19The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath.

The people that die in the Lord from THAT MOMENT ON..., the opposite is also true, the people that die not in Christ form that moment on. No second chances because it is HARVEST TIME. The angel swings his sharp sickle and the earth is harvested, nothing like going back.
We have heard people say they died and came back to life- these is just the other side of delusion, it is together with the tongues we hear today. People are deluded- There's no one who goes about raising the dead today (and you can't argue what we all know), not only that we don't see, it is totally against the scriptures.
With the same authority that i say no raising of dead, i also say the tongues are fake.

your wrong I have enternal life Jesus said HE is the resurrection and the Life and those who believe in HIm shall never die. The flesh shall be resurrected this is the Hope of the Church,

 

[Noose]

I cannot firmly state that no one after the deaths of the disciples has ever been raised from the dead.
Some doctors have attested to this happening. And some of them say that while they can't explain how it happened, they still do not believe in God.

Then again, some men claim to have raised the dead and you watch their strutting and shenanigans and insanity and you want to shake them.

You don't need to hear news or believe someone. remember these words "let no man deceive you..". All you have to do is read the scriptures and ask for understanding. Raising the dead today is impossible because it is the will of God that people die and are judged, IOW, it is harvest time, no second thoughts:

Rev 14:
13Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.”

“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”

Harvesting the Earth and Trampling the Winepress

14I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of manbwith a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.

17Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.”19The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath.

The same people who insist on speaking in tongues are trying to go against the most obvious thing by saying there's raising of the dead. Totally against the scripture.
Where does it say in the scriptures that towards the end, other gifts will reduce but tongues will increase?

How many times will you see a preacher somewhere who thoroughly 'speaks in tongues' as a sign that they are indwelled by the Holy spirit, try to lift a snake (also a sign that was promised the disciples and Apostles) only to succumb and die- isn't this proof that they were deluded? what makes you think you are different?

 

[CS1]

Oohhh!!!
How is it a gift if it depends on the recipient?
Demons were driven from mad people, from whence did the mad people get faith?
The dead were raised, from whence did the dead people get faith?
Others are very sick and unresponsive, why do you require faith to heal them?

It is very easy to recognize fake signs- when someone tells you you have no faith that's why you were not healed, run very fast

Mocking fake signs is what we all need to do and even encourage others, otherwise if we let them be, we will be mocking God.

the thread is the Baptisim of the Holy Spirit
some here took to signs and wonders Ok, It is a gift in context to what the Word of God call it a gift Found in 1cor chapter 12. Known as the "Gifts of the Holy Spirit".

your question makes no sense . Those who prayed in the word of God where God did raised the Dead were led to do so .


This is why we have error . I can agree with error in the operation of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit absolutely . however, we are imperfect vessels, God is patient with us. This is why Paul was led to correct error and instruct how to properly used as the Holy Spirit leads one to be used in ALL the gifts In cluding five fold.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

You don't need to hear news or believe someone.

But neither do I call every man who testifies of something he has seen a liar. Enough men have testified that I find it unlikely every single one of them is a liar. Some are - I've seen and heard their antics. I easily dismiss someone like Benny Hinn. I don't automatically call every other man a liar just because Benny is a liar. If your goal is to convince me they are ALL liars, you will not succeed.

 

[CS1]

I asked about raising the dead.

Are you going to join the name it claim it crowd?

I have seen many who suffered for the glory of God.

Ps 44:22 Yea, for thy sake are we killed all the day long; we are counted as sheep for the slaughter.

Never doubted Gods ability to answer prayer. Have no intention to provoke God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

LOL again do not "insult me with name it and claim it ". I suffer each day YET ! I ask God to heal people who ask for prayer and i have seen God heal them.
"Many are the affliction of the righteous, And the Lord deliver him out of them all “



My God has delivered me and When that day comes where I am to lay down this Body I will as the Lord ordain for me to do. And it is my hope that I will bless His name when I do.

 

[CS1]

You don't need to hear news or believe someone. remember these words "let no man deceive you..". All you have to do is read the scriptures and ask for understanding. Raising the dead today is impossible because it is the will of God that people die and are judged, IOW, it is harvest time, no second thoughts:

Rev 14:
13Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.”

“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”

Harvesting the Earth and Trampling the Winepress

14I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of manbwith a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.

17Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.”19The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath.

The same people who insist on speaking in tongues are trying to go against the most obvious thing by saying there's raising of the dead. Totally against the scripture.
Where does it say in the scriptures that towards the end, other gifts will reduce but tongues will increase?

How many times will you see a preacher somewhere who thoroughly 'speaks in tongues' as a sign that they are indwelled by the Holy spirit, try to lift a snake (also a sign that was promised the disciples and Apostles) only to succumb and die- isn't this proof that they were deluded? what makes you think you are different?

you are wrong Noose .

yes we will lay down this Body but if you really think the way you are speaking then I do not think you would even want a doctor to treat you for something that can kill you. Your thinking is very hopeless . Please do not visit me if I am sick your kind of faith would have me killed LOL

 

[CS1]

Easy, very easy- initially, God gave the disciples the ability to raise the dead, does anyone today raise the dead?
What happened? The same spirit that caused the dead to be raised is the same spirit that caused tongues to be spoken-do you have any information as to why raising the dead stopped whereas tongues continues?

you do know that people died when Jesus was raising the dead right? you are making no sense.

 

[Noose]

your wrong I have enternal life Jesus said HE is the resurrection and the Life and those who believe in HIm shall never die. The flesh shall be resurrected this is the Hope of the Church,

I agree with you on this but you are not tackling what i said.

 

[CS1]

My position is that the tongues being spoken today are fake because evidence points there.

Show me one place in the bible where someone prayed in the spirit (privately) and someone else thought it was not ok- coz i have no problem with prayers. You can go to a corner and pray in Hindu (even though you do not Hindu)- what business will i have to question the language you use to pray, is it not between you and God?

I'm against the bubbling of incomprehensible words as a SIGN that the Holy spirit has indwelled someone.

FYI- speaking in tongues during private prayer is not not not bubbling of incomprehensible words. People don't pray for what they don't know. You pray for a specific need that is well known to you. Don't misrepresent Paul- No one wakes up in the morning and says "today i'm going to pray something that i don't understand", that is not a prayer. I have said it before, the HS intercedes for us with groans too deep for words because words fail us during prayers. It's like you pray for a specific need but you don't have the words to petition the need.

Rom 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know how we ought to pray, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groans too deep for words.

There are interpreters in your church?!! Give me one sample interpretation and i'll tell you whether to stay in that church or run for your life. Just one.
It is very easy for one to say some incomprehensible words and another to say the words means certain things.

you are wrong . and really do not know what you are speaking about .

 

[CS1]

I agree with you on this but you are not tackling what i said.

I have answered all that you have said .
what have you said that was not answered from the word of God?

 

[Noose]

you are wrong Noose .

yes we will lay down this Body but if you really think the way you are speaking then I do not think you would even want a doctor to treat you for something that can kill you. Your thinking is very hopeless . Please do not visit me if I am sick your kind of faith would have me killed LOL

My friend, don't make me laugh at you coz i'm feeling sleepy.

Faith was then, now it is the will of God.
Jesus said, when you pray, say this:
Our father,
Who at in Heaven,
Hallowed be thy name,
Thy kingdom come,
Thy WILL be done,....

Jesus prayed and said: Father, if it be your will, let this cap pass from me....
When He confirmed that He will be crucified, he told Peter, "...Shall I not drink” the cup the Father has given Me? "
Do you really think Jesus lacked faith?

If i come at your hospital bed, with or without faith, i'd ask for the will of the Father.

 

[Noose]

I have answered all that you have said .
what have you said that was not answered from the word of God?

I'm talking about raising of the dead before the resurrection of the saints or every dead during judgement day.
If the same spirit enables the ability to raise the dead (like the apostles) is the same that gave tongues to them then, then the 'spirit' that gives the tongues today should be able to give the ability to raise the dead today. If not, at least give me an explanation (scriptural) of what you think transpired so that we have a huge gap from then to now.

 

[Noose]

the thread is the Baptisim of the Holy Spirit
some here took to signs and wonders Ok, It is a gift in context to what the Word of God call it a gift Found in 1cor chapter 12. Known as the "Gifts of the Holy Spirit".

your question makes no sense . Those who prayed in the word of God where God did raised the Dead were led to do so .


This is why we have error . I can agree with error in the operation of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit absolutely . however, we are imperfect vessels, God is patient with us. This is why Paul was led to correct error and instruct how to properly used as the Holy Spirit leads one to be used in ALL the gifts In cluding five fold.

John 14: 12Truly, truly, I tell you,whoever believes in Me will also do the works that Iam doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Amongst the works that Jesus did were raising the dead. the apostles believed and did even greater things as per that promise. My question is, why are believers today not being led as per the promise to do all those things, they seem to be led only in one thing- speaking incomprehensible language.

I won't get tired saying it, it is fake. And i know why all these signs ceased, we are in the end times and the antichrist also comes with a bag full of fake signs and wonders. God can not cause confusion that a genuine sign here and fake sign there and no one really knows what to believe.

This is a real scenario during judgement day:
Matt 7:21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Who are these people? these were duped by the antichrist, they truly believed that the signs were from God.
NO signs from God, this is what is required of God during these end times:

Rev 14: 12This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.

Patience and endurance.

 

[Noose]

But neither do I call every man who testifies of something he has seen a liar. Enough men have testified that I find it unlikely every single one of them is a liar. Some are - I've seen and heard their antics. I easily dismiss someone like Benny Hinn. I don't automatically call every other man a liar just because Benny is a liar. If your goal is to convince me they are ALL liars, you will not succeed.

Call me a liar at your own peril.

 

[garee]

My friend, don't make me laugh at you coz i'm feeling sleepy.

Faith was then, now it is the will of God.
Jesus said, when you pray, say this:
Our father,
Who at in Heaven,
Hallowed be thy name,
Thy kingdom come,
Thy WILL be done,....

Jesus prayed and said: Father, if it be your will, let this cap pass from me....
When He confirmed that He will be crucified, he told Peter, "...Shall I not drink” the cup the Father has given Me? "
Do you really think Jesus lacked faith?

If i come at your hospital bed, with or without faith, i'd ask for the will of the Father.

The faith of God, is the work of God. According to Christ's work of faith as a three day labor of His love he finished all the work required to know Him not seen. By faith working with the father he drank the cup

 

[garee]

Amongst the works that Jesus did were raising the dead. the apostles believed and did even greater things as per that promise. My question is, why are believers today not being led as per the promise to do all those things, they seem to be led only in one thing- speaking incomprehensible language.

The work he was performing was preaching the gospel .

There is no greater work than fulfilling the gospel . The greater work was in respect to bringing the gospel... raising the spiritualty dead to new life .The Son of man in respect to his ministry seemed to effect approx. five hundred during the three year course. Peter spoke once and three thousand heard the gospel .It is the greater work. It was not the sky is the limit just beleive.

 

[Noose]

The faith of God, is the work of God. According to Christ's work of faith as a three day labor of His love he finished all the work required to know Him not seen. By faith working with the father he drank the cup

Jesus is God, not that He didn't know the will of God, Jesus did all these things so that we learn from His actions/flesh. Otherwise, i agree that the will of God is faith in us.