Baptism and holy spirit
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Not do not agree we are in the great trib . Matt 24-25 and other prophetic writings show many things ,
I do see :
1. The great falling "away" has happened and is happening
2Thess 2:3
"3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2. men lover of self 2tim 3:2 "For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, "
3. birth pains Matt 24:8 "All these are the beginning of birth pains. "
I do see :
1. The great falling "away" has happened and is happening
2Thess 2:3
"3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2. men lover of self 2tim 3:2 "For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, "
3. birth pains Matt 24:8 "All these are the beginning of birth pains. "
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Then no man at Pentecost heard the gospel being proclaimed in his own tongue and the church never began and the alarm clock will go off in a minute! 
it said they heard them speaking Acts 2:4
" And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. "
" Acts 2:6 "Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. "
:7 " And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? "
:8 "And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? "
:11 " Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. "
Wonderful works of God did not mean it was the gospel , That is why Peter had to excplain " This was that" spoken by the Prophet Joel. Then Peter Preached Jesus ans they were saved 3000 of them.
You are stuck on that point and it doesn't help you. If anyone was to summarize 1 Cor 14, they would say Paul was against speaking of tongues in the church because it was all confusion not unless it was interpreted. So Paul was for something that everyone would understand.
What happens today is in total contrast of what Paul is saying in 1 Cor 14. People speak incomprehensible words and no one interprates. So im still right as per 1 Cor 14 to castigate todays tongues because no one understands them- Paul would have done the same.
Speaking in tongues is a gift and interpreting the spoken tongues is also a gift as per:
1 Cor 12:7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,a and to still another the interpretation of tongues
If you claim that speaking in tongues is a manifestation of the gift of HS and every Christian should do it, so is the ability to interpret those tongues and every christian should be able to interpret tongues- don;t you think so?
Praying in tongues (spirit praying on one's behalf) is a private affair and i have no issues with it, Paul didn't have any issues with it. Christians don't pray in public- when you pray, close yourself in your closet and pray privately. People praying privately should not be our concern - whether they use known or unknown language, it shouldn't concern the public and we shouldn't be discussing it here. And why should anyone shout when they are praying privately? they can as well pray silently in their spirit.
This is the context of praying in tongues or in the spirit:
Rom 8:25But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently. 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know how we ought to pray, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groans too deep for words
I repeat, what we see in our churches today has nothing to do with God.
What happens today is in total contrast of what Paul is saying in 1 Cor 14. People speak incomprehensible words and no one interprates. So im still right as per 1 Cor 14 to castigate todays tongues because no one understands them- Paul would have done the same.
Speaking in tongues is a gift and interpreting the spoken tongues is also a gift as per:
1 Cor 12:7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,a and to still another the interpretation of tongues
If you claim that speaking in tongues is a manifestation of the gift of HS and every Christian should do it, so is the ability to interpret those tongues and every christian should be able to interpret tongues- don;t you think so?
Praying in tongues (spirit praying on one's behalf) is a private affair and i have no issues with it, Paul didn't have any issues with it. Christians don't pray in public- when you pray, close yourself in your closet and pray privately. People praying privately should not be our concern - whether they use known or unknown language, it shouldn't concern the public and we shouldn't be discussing it here. And why should anyone shout when they are praying privately? they can as well pray silently in their spirit.
This is the context of praying in tongues or in the spirit:
Rom 8:25But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently. 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know how we ought to pray, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groans too deep for words
I repeat, what we see in our churches today has nothing to do with God.
Again, the person speaking in tongues is to be the one to interpret. [/quote]Again, I disagree. [/QUOTE]
1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
13) Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
Was Paul wrong? Confused? Befuddled? Contradicting himself?
[/QUOTE]1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
13) Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
Was Paul wrong? Confused? Befuddled? Contradicting himself?
Not unless they are speaking in tongues when they shouldn't be. If they should be, God will provide an interpreter. Hence, they will be hearing then in their own tongue.
Hence, they will be hearing then in their own tongue.
Where does the Bible say "God will provide an interpreter"?
Not sure why this would become a sticking point for us. Hope it doesn't anyway.
The most awesome and wondrous work of God is the cross, in my opinion. The entire OT speaks of Jesus over and over. I think it would be impossible to speak of the wondrous works of God and NOT mention Jesus.
The most awesome and wondrous work of God is the cross, in my opinion. The entire OT speaks of Jesus over and over. I think it would be impossible to speak of the wondrous works of God and NOT mention Jesus.
"Then no man at Pentecost heard the gospel being proclaimed in his own tongue and the church never began and the alarm clock will go off in a minute!
"now explain how you did not want to this to become a sticking point?
Again, I disagree. [/QUOTE]
1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
13) Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
Was Paul wrong? Confused? Befuddled? Contradicting himself?[/QUOTE]
Paul was saying: I wish you all spoke in tongues, but I wish even more that you all prophesied.
Of course, some take pauls wishing that they all spoke in tongues as him saying: you do all speak in tongues, which to me is odd, because in another place he asks, do all speak in tongues?
Not sure about the "he" there. I'd have to look into it.
[/QUOTE]1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
13) Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
Was Paul wrong? Confused? Befuddled? Contradicting himself?[/QUOTE]
Paul was saying: I wish you all spoke in tongues, but I wish even more that you all prophesied.
Of course, some take pauls wishing that they all spoke in tongues as him saying: you do all speak in tongues, which to me is odd, because in another place he asks, do all speak in tongues?
Not sure about the "he" there. I'd have to look into it.
Let me spell this out for you so you have a chance to understand what I am saying. I said you need a modern English translation of what is being said in 1 Cor 13:12. You do not seem to know that the phrase translated for now we see through a glass darkly is old English for a mirror. Not a window but a mirror. Paul wrote under Holy Spirit inspiration but he did not write in English.
OT is related to the veil of the temple which was rent in twain. NT makes the holy of holies accessible to the believer where it was closed off to them in the OT. This goes directly to the that which is in part being done away.
Paul and the other apostles had seen Jesus face to face. Paul on the road to Emmaus and the others in the upper room. Jesus appeared to them in His glorified body.
The NT was the only thing in view that was not completed at the point in time Paul wrote the letters to the church at Corinth.
The Holy Spirit is with the church until the rapture. The Holy Spirit ministers in the church but three gifts have ended being replaced by the completion of Gods revelation our bible.
God has promised to supply all our needs. Not all our wants but our needs. Tongues are not needed because we have a complete written revelation of God. There will be no new prophesies because all have been given and recorded in our bible. Knowledge now is to be found on the pages of our bible with the Holy Spirit as our instructor into truth.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
OT is related to the veil of the temple which was rent in twain. NT makes the holy of holies accessible to the believer where it was closed off to them in the OT. This goes directly to the that which is in part being done away.
Paul and the other apostles had seen Jesus face to face. Paul on the road to Emmaus and the others in the upper room. Jesus appeared to them in His glorified body.
The NT was the only thing in view that was not completed at the point in time Paul wrote the letters to the church at Corinth.
The Holy Spirit is with the church until the rapture. The Holy Spirit ministers in the church but three gifts have ended being replaced by the completion of Gods revelation our bible.
God has promised to supply all our needs. Not all our wants but our needs. Tongues are not needed because we have a complete written revelation of God. There will be no new prophesies because all have been given and recorded in our bible. Knowledge now is to be found on the pages of our bible with the Holy Spirit as our instructor into truth.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
All these things you are talking about are happening and they have been happening since 2000 years ago. The falling away is on full speed even today with these fake tongues (yet they believe they are on track). By the time we hit the end of age there will be so many Christians yet not a believer- the reason it is said "the moon will be blood/the sun will be dark/The stars will fall. There will be no light of the world yet Christians are supposed to be the light of the world.
You need to understand what the great trib means, it's nothing more than; death by wars (sword), pestilences (diseases), famine (Natural disasters), Beasts of the earth (Accidents)- these are happening and have been happening since 2000 years ago. the only thing that makes the great trib more dangerous is the presence or reign of the antichrist (since 2000 years ago), because if anyone dies not in the Lord, will be tormented in hell fire forever because they are of the antichrist.
Trust me.
You need to understand what the great trib means, it's nothing more than; death by wars (sword), pestilences (diseases), famine (Natural disasters), Beasts of the earth (Accidents)- these are happening and have been happening since 2000 years ago. the only thing that makes the great trib more dangerous is the presence or reign of the antichrist (since 2000 years ago), because if anyone dies not in the Lord, will be tormented in hell fire forever because they are of the antichrist.
Trust me.
That maybe be true however, were the Word of God is silent that is a good time not to make assumptions concerning it. in context to your point you said :
"Then no man at Pentecost heard the gospel being proclaimed in his own tongue and the church never began and the alarm clock will go off in a minute! "
now explain how you did not want to this to become a sticking point?
"Then no man at Pentecost heard the gospel being proclaimed in his own tongue and the church never began and the alarm clock will go off in a minute!
"now explain how you did not want to this to become a sticking point?
If anyone wants to think they heard the works of God being proclaimed in their own language but did not hear the gospel that saves in their own language, I'm fine with that. But it does say 3,000 were then saved, and without hearing the gospel in his own language, can a man be saved...?
That is flatly not true.
Paul was saying that tongues, when spoken out loud in the church, must be interpreted, so the church can be edified.
Which is why tongues, when spoken in public, must be interpreted.
That is unfortunately true in some Pentecostal churches.
No, you are dead wrong.
Both (in fact all nine) are manifestations of the gift of the Holy Spirit. In the church, different people do different things.
Absolutely!
Earlier you flatly stated that all tongues spoken today are fake.
So nobody in your church prays out loud? All those places in Acts where people prayed out loud were heresy? FYI, in Matt 6:5-7, Jesus is contrasting the way the Pharisees prayed, loudly, in public, seeking approval of men.
Again, earlier you condemned all speaking in tongues.
When they're praying privately they should not shout.
I repeat, you do not know what you are talking about.
Paul was saying that tongues, when spoken out loud in the church, must be interpreted, so the church can be edified.
Which is why tongues, when spoken in public, must be interpreted.
That is unfortunately true in some Pentecostal churches.
No, you are dead wrong.
Both (in fact all nine) are manifestations of the gift of the Holy Spirit. In the church, different people do different things.
Absolutely!
Earlier you flatly stated that all tongues spoken today are fake.
So nobody in your church prays out loud? All those places in Acts where people prayed out loud were heresy? FYI, in Matt 6:5-7, Jesus is contrasting the way the Pharisees prayed, loudly, in public, seeking approval of men.
Again, earlier you condemned all speaking in tongues.
When they're praying privately they should not shout.
I repeat, you do not know what you are talking about.
I got it. God sending His Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to redeem mankind probably counts as a might work of God. At least to some of us.
Peters message that led to the salvation of 3000 souls no doubt took all that was said and demonstrated that this very same Jesus Whom they had crucified was indeed Gods Redeemer sent to Israel.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Peters message that led to the salvation of 3000 souls no doubt took all that was said and demonstrated that this very same Jesus Whom they had crucified was indeed Gods Redeemer sent to Israel.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I have never witnessed anyone interpreting at all. The only tongues I have witnessed was with no one interpreting at all. That is why I believed I was witnessing a scene gone amok. Because it says to keep silent unless there is interpretation. And it also says two or three but I heard and saw dozens speaking in tongues all at once. And I also suspected some were pretending, but I'm not sure of that.