Are you really saved or do you just think you are? Exposing the lie of Easy Believism
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Here are some more thoughts on "walking by the spirit " - which is walking by who we really are in Christ - in our new creation which has been created in righteousness and holiness.
We are saved by the life of the Lord Jesus Christ which is in us in our new creation. We are now learning how to walk by the spirit - which is our spirit in union with Christ by the Holy Spirit ( whom Jesus said would be in us forever - John 14:16 ).
Romans 5:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Living by the flesh does not stop making us a new creation in Christ. It makes us deceived by sin and distorts our view of the Lord's love and grace towards God Himself, others and ourselves.
I have found the very same thing happening in my life. The more I see Christ and what He has done - and the more I agree with His work - the more He becomes manifested in my life and the things of the flesh just have fallen off like dead leaves on a branch.
Transformation is really the emerging new man that is in Christ being manifested in our bodies while we are here on this earth.
This transformation of what already is in us in Christ in our new creation ( It is not called a "new evolution" ) can be seen by man as our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ's work for us. Rom. 12:2
We are simply "being" who we already are when we "put on Christ".
The new man in Christ is like the invisible man - when he put clothes on, people could then see him. We put on Christ and people see the new man in Christ manifested and God gets glorified.
This all happens by grace through faith in what Christ has done and we participate in it with Him for it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He will be faithful to us. Phil. 2:13
As we learn to walk by the spirit instead of the flesh - then we experience God's kind of life in our lives.
We are saved by the life of the Lord Jesus Christ which is in us in our new creation. We are now learning how to walk by the spirit - which is our spirit in union with Christ by the Holy Spirit ( whom Jesus said would be in us forever - John 14:16 ).
Romans 5:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Living by the flesh does not stop making us a new creation in Christ. It makes us deceived by sin and distorts our view of the Lord's love and grace towards God Himself, others and ourselves.
I have found the very same thing happening in my life. The more I see Christ and what He has done - and the more I agree with His work - the more He becomes manifested in my life and the things of the flesh just have fallen off like dead leaves on a branch.
Transformation is really the emerging new man that is in Christ being manifested in our bodies while we are here on this earth.
This transformation of what already is in us in Christ in our new creation ( It is not called a "new evolution" ) can be seen by man as our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ's work for us. Rom. 12:2
We are simply "being" who we already are when we "put on Christ".
The new man in Christ is like the invisible man - when he put clothes on, people could then see him. We put on Christ and people see the new man in Christ manifested and God gets glorified.
This all happens by grace through faith in what Christ has done and we participate in it with Him for it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He will be faithful to us. Phil. 2:13
As we learn to walk by the spirit instead of the flesh - then we experience God's kind of life in our lives.
The basis of your argument is the same thing said and pushed by all workers for on this site MATE.....the BUT seems to indicate <---same words I used in my quote above bro.....and again NO ONE who believes in grace dia faith eternal salvation states we can live like the "DEBIL"
Peace bro!
YOUR quote bro vl
Originally Posted by vl
If you believe that you can go on living like the devil after putting your faith in Jesus Christ and not worry about Gods wrath, then you obviously do not know the truth.
YOUR quote bro vl
Of course it is by Gods grace through faith we are saved..but it is to them that walk also in that faith - the "just" shall live by faith
Romans 2:13"For not the hearers of the law are the just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."
Don't let these false teachings fool you into believing that you can go on sinning and still have a one way ticket to eternal life. Read the word. We cannot assume that Gods wrath is only for the unbelievers. His wrath is stored up for them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth ....( Romans 2:8)
Peace bro!
YOUR quote bro vl
YOUR quote bro vl
Of course it is by Gods grace through faith we are saved..but it is to them that walk also in that faith - the "just" shall live by faith
Romans 2:13"For not the hearers of the law are the just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."
Don't let these false teachings fool you into believing that you can go on sinning and still have a one way ticket to eternal life. Read the word. We cannot assume that Gods wrath is only for the unbelievers. His wrath is stored up for them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth ....( Romans 2:8)
Great another worker for.....
It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.........
NO ONE believes what you espouse above and no one has said or implied what you espouse above.......spend some time reading what people believe before you ascribe the above to anyone....it seems to be a characteristic trait of those who believe their works and adherence to the law is what FINISHES off their salvation.....
I suggest Galatians 1 and 3<----FAITH plus WORKS of ANY SORT to finish off or maintain salvation = false gospel, no power, double cursed and those who believe it are called fools and bewitched....
end of story!
if a gentile dose not have a law, how do you define what a sin is,
14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.Romans 2: God's Righteous Judgment
define what you mean about work, when did a new covenant depend on, if you sin or do not sin.
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenantHebrews 9
the point
when did we gain our own righteousness through the law to go into gods presence.
.21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.Galatians 2
if he a warning was given to the jewish , about sin v salvation or grace.
3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from graceGalatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance,
2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.Romans 8
Romans 8: Life in the Spirit
1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death
if you set free from the law of sin and death, why do you claim being saved from sin , if your a gentile, then first prove you were given this jewish law, if only one person who was born under this law, saved the jewish from the condemnation from this law.
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenantHebrews 9
if there is a new covenant , when were you born under an old covenant.
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned---13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.Romans 5: Peace with God Through Faith
context is missing if your still looking at law, and blind to what jesus has already done for you.
1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death
if you set free from the law of sin and death, why do you claim being saved from sin , if your a gentile, then first prove you were given this jewish law, if only one person who was born under this law, saved the jewish from the condemnation from this law.
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenantHebrews 9
if there is a new covenant , when were you born under an old covenant.
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned---13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.Romans 5: Peace with God Through Faith
context is missing if your still looking at law, and blind to what jesus has already done for you.
I just read through those steps and he is teaching "once saved always saved"
Matthew 7:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
...
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
These people are believers. If they don't enter in to the kingdom of heaven, where do they go?
"does the will of my Father" - "doeth" is works, in order to get in to heaven.
Also they are teaching pre-tribulation rapture. The rapture happens after the sun / moon go dark.
Matthew 24:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 7:
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
...
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
These people are believers. If they don't enter in to the kingdom of heaven, where do they go?
"does the will of my Father" - "doeth" is works, in order to get in to heaven.
Also they are teaching pre-tribulation rapture. The rapture happens after the sun / moon go dark.
Matthew 24:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
I'm sorry desertrose. Although I believe you exemplify with loving words how a Christian should converse with others, I pretty much just disagree with almost all of your commentary of the Scripture you quote. But that's ok. I still love you and are grateful you are my sister in the Lord!
I'll comment in blue again, ok?
Originally Posted by PennEd
Well yes. Just about everybody. We all sin to one degree or another. We still inhabit these dead bodies, and until we are transformed into our glorified bodies we are not perfect and sin. If we WERE PERFECT then we would never sin.
The Holy Spirit transforms us and gives us the power to walk in the Spirit, but Like Lazarus, whom Christ raised from the dead, we still have our stinky, rotten grave clothes on.
So what constitutes "habitual"? That word seems to be what is in contention.
All this simply boils down to whether we are Born again or not. If we are born again, we are a new creation. We ARE His Kids!!
1 John 3:10
By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
~
Believers who have been saved by grace through faith practice righteousness. They are a new creation in Christ. Righteousness flows through their new-life veins. So they will begin practicing righteousness. Not perfectly yet, but they leave their life of sin even if/when they trip up.
1 John 1:5-10 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
~ John says that those who walk in darkness don't practice the truth. They lie as a habit. The believer is not walking in darkness, we are walking in light and do tell the truth.
We are in the sanctification process and will begin to lie less and less because we don't walk in darkness anymore. We are walking in the light and because of that we begin to tell the truth. We desire truth, we want to live truth.........we want to live Jesus because He is the truth.
And because we're walking in the truth, we admit our sin. We confess our sins to the Lord and because we're now walking in the light, because we're practicing righteousness even thought we may sin along the way, we are going to confess our sins and be cleansed because Jesus is righteous and faithful and forgives us.
My kids don't have to work, or try to be my children. THEY ARE BY BIRTH! Now, they disobey sometimes, even "habitually". BUT they know they REMAIN my children but will have to deal with the consequences of their disobeying. ONE of the consequences WILL NOT BE that they are no longer my children.
Sometimes parables we come up with just don't work. And I think this is one of them. We can't compare this with God's children because we don't have the same situation to compare. All of God's children are fallen even though He gave us life......He birthed us.
We, as fallen children have to accept His gift of grace through faith to be restored to a righteous relationship with Him. There are many who will not bow the knee and will not desire the new birth and will continue on in their sin. So we're not really comparing apples with apples in this example.
But I will say that the one who is truly born again are God's child forever. Because they will walk in the light, they won't walk in darkness. When we sin, He makes a way to cleanse us through confession and repentance.
Are we God's children by NEW BIRTH? Of course we are! WE ARE BORN AGAIN. We are forever His Children, and He will do what is necessary to transform us into the likeness of His One and only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ.
Yes, we are God's children through the new birth.
But our saying we're His child or our saying that we've been saved by grace through faith isn't so because we say so. It's through genuine faith that we are and it's because He says so and in His word, He shows us what it means to be saved/born again.
We've been chosen to obey. We've been called to obey. We are to abide and bear fruit. Easy believism will not agree with this. Easy believism allows the carnal person to continue on. Just say Jesus is Lord and you're in. Just say that God is your savior and all is well.
In other words, easy believism makes up their own rules whatever they want them to look like.
But God says only those who do my will are my children. Jesus says those who love me will obey my commandments. Easy believism doesn't like those words.
Just to pick one aspect of your post, NO ONE who is not born again is a child of God.
John 8:
23 And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
And John 8:
44 YOU ARE OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL and the desires of your YOUR FATHER you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
So very clearly those who are not born again have a different father than GOD.
I'll comment in blue again, ok?
Well yes. Just about everybody. We all sin to one degree or another. We still inhabit these dead bodies, and until we are transformed into our glorified bodies we are not perfect and sin. If we WERE PERFECT then we would never sin.
The Holy Spirit transforms us and gives us the power to walk in the Spirit, but Like Lazarus, whom Christ raised from the dead, we still have our stinky, rotten grave clothes on.
So what constitutes "habitual"? That word seems to be what is in contention.
All this simply boils down to whether we are Born again or not. If we are born again, we are a new creation. We ARE His Kids!!
1 John 3:10
By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
~
Believers who have been saved by grace through faith practice righteousness. They are a new creation in Christ. Righteousness flows through their new-life veins. So they will begin practicing righteousness. Not perfectly yet, but they leave their life of sin even if/when they trip up.
1 John 1:5-10 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
~ John says that those who walk in darkness don't practice the truth. They lie as a habit. The believer is not walking in darkness, we are walking in light and do tell the truth.
We are in the sanctification process and will begin to lie less and less because we don't walk in darkness anymore. We are walking in the light and because of that we begin to tell the truth. We desire truth, we want to live truth.........we want to live Jesus because He is the truth.
And because we're walking in the truth, we admit our sin. We confess our sins to the Lord and because we're now walking in the light, because we're practicing righteousness even thought we may sin along the way, we are going to confess our sins and be cleansed because Jesus is righteous and faithful and forgives us.
My kids don't have to work, or try to be my children. THEY ARE BY BIRTH! Now, they disobey sometimes, even "habitually". BUT they know they REMAIN my children but will have to deal with the consequences of their disobeying. ONE of the consequences WILL NOT BE that they are no longer my children.
Sometimes parables we come up with just don't work. And I think this is one of them. We can't compare this with God's children because we don't have the same situation to compare. All of God's children are fallen even though He gave us life......He birthed us.
We, as fallen children have to accept His gift of grace through faith to be restored to a righteous relationship with Him. There are many who will not bow the knee and will not desire the new birth and will continue on in their sin. So we're not really comparing apples with apples in this example.
But I will say that the one who is truly born again are God's child forever. Because they will walk in the light, they won't walk in darkness. When we sin, He makes a way to cleanse us through confession and repentance.
Are we God's children by NEW BIRTH? Of course we are! WE ARE BORN AGAIN. We are forever His Children, and He will do what is necessary to transform us into the likeness of His One and only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ.
Yes, we are God's children through the new birth.
But our saying we're His child or our saying that we've been saved by grace through faith isn't so because we say so. It's through genuine faith that we are and it's because He says so and in His word, He shows us what it means to be saved/born again.
We've been chosen to obey. We've been called to obey. We are to abide and bear fruit. Easy believism will not agree with this. Easy believism allows the carnal person to continue on. Just say Jesus is Lord and you're in. Just say that God is your savior and all is well.
In other words, easy believism makes up their own rules whatever they want them to look like.
But God says only those who do my will are my children. Jesus says those who love me will obey my commandments. Easy believism doesn't like those words.
Just to pick one aspect of your post, NO ONE who is not born again is a child of God.
John 8:
23 And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
And John 8:
44 YOU ARE OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL and the desires of your YOUR FATHER you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
So very clearly those who are not born again have a different father than GOD.
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context, to you who follow law, would peter be sinning by going to the gentile house, so who sent peter in the first place, law or spirit. (to blind to see context. but quote scripture , proving there own blindness lol)
this would be after pentecost ,
28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.29 So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me."
The Righteous Shall Live by Faith
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, "The righteous shall live by faith."Romans 1:
l6 he says: "It is too light a thing that you should be my servant
to raise up the tribes of Jacob
and to bring back the preserved of Israel;
I will make you as a light for the nations,
that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth."Isaiah 49
this would be after pentecost ,
28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.29 So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me."
The Righteous Shall Live by Faith
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, "The righteous shall live by faith."Romans 1:
l6 he says: "It is too light a thing that you should be my servant
to raise up the tribes of Jacob
and to bring back the preserved of Israel;
I will make you as a light for the nations,
that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth."Isaiah 49
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I'm sorry desertrose. Although I believe you exemplify with loving words how a Christian should converse with others, I pretty much just disagree with almost all of your commentary of the Scripture you quote. But that's ok. I still love you and are grateful you are my sister in the Lord!
I'll comment in blue again, ok?
Originally Posted by PennEd
Well yes. Just about everybody. We all sin to one degree or another. We still inhabit these dead bodies, and until we are transformed into our glorified bodies we are not perfect and sin. If we WERE PERFECT then we would never sin.
The Holy Spirit transforms us and gives us the power to walk in the Spirit, but Like Lazarus, whom Christ raised from the dead, we still have our stinky, rotten grave clothes on.
So what constitutes "habitual"? That word seems to be what is in contention.
All this simply boils down to whether we are Born again or not. If we are born again, we are a new creation. We ARE His Kids!!
1 John 3:10
By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
~
Believers who have been saved by grace through faith practice righteousness. They are a new creation in Christ. Righteousness flows through their new-life veins. So they will begin practicing righteousness. Not perfectly yet, but they leave their life of sin even if/when they trip up.
1 John 1:5-10 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
~ John says that those who walk in darkness don't practice the truth. They lie as a habit. The believer is not walking in darkness, we are walking in light and do tell the truth.
We are in the sanctification process and will begin to lie less and less because we don't walk in darkness anymore. We are walking in the light and because of that we begin to tell the truth. We desire truth, we want to live truth.........we want to live Jesus because He is the truth.
And because we're walking in the truth, we admit our sin. We confess our sins to the Lord and because we're now walking in the light, because we're practicing righteousness even thought we may sin along the way, we are going to confess our sins and be cleansed because Jesus is righteous and faithful and forgives us.
My kids don't have to work, or try to be my children. THEY ARE BY BIRTH! Now, they disobey sometimes, even "habitually". BUT they know they REMAIN my children but will have to deal with the consequences of their disobeying. ONE of the consequences WILL NOT BE that they are no longer my children.
Sometimes parables we come up with just don't work. And I think this is one of them. We can't compare this with God's children because we don't have the same situation to compare. All of God's children are fallen even though He gave us life......He birthed us.
We, as fallen children have to accept His gift of grace through faith to be restored to a righteous relationship with Him. There are many who will not bow the knee and will not desire the new birth and will continue on in their sin. So we're not really comparing apples with apples in this example.
But I will say that the one who is truly born again are God's child forever. Because they will walk in the light, they won't walk in darkness. When we sin, He makes a way to cleanse us through confession and repentance.
Are we God's children by NEW BIRTH? Of course we are! WE ARE BORN AGAIN. We are forever His Children, and He will do what is necessary to transform us into the likeness of His One and only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ.
Yes, we are God's children through the new birth.
But our saying we're His child or our saying that we've been saved by grace through faith isn't so because we say so. It's through genuine faith that we are and it's because He says so and in His word, He shows us what it means to be saved/born again.
We've been chosen to obey. We've been called to obey. We are to abide and bear fruit. Easy believism will not agree with this. Easy believism allows the carnal person to continue on. Just say Jesus is Lord and you're in. Just say that God is your savior and all is well.
In other words, easy believism makes up their own rules whatever they want them to look like.
But God says only those who do my will are my children. Jesus says those who love me will obey my commandments. Easy believism doesn't like those words.
Just to pick one aspect of your post, NO ONE who is not born again is a child of God.
John 8:
23 And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
And John 8:
44 YOU ARE OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL and the desires of your YOUR FATHER you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
So very clearly those who are not born again have a different father than GOD.
I'll comment in blue again, ok?
Well yes. Just about everybody. We all sin to one degree or another. We still inhabit these dead bodies, and until we are transformed into our glorified bodies we are not perfect and sin. If we WERE PERFECT then we would never sin.
The Holy Spirit transforms us and gives us the power to walk in the Spirit, but Like Lazarus, whom Christ raised from the dead, we still have our stinky, rotten grave clothes on.
So what constitutes "habitual"? That word seems to be what is in contention.
All this simply boils down to whether we are Born again or not. If we are born again, we are a new creation. We ARE His Kids!!
1 John 3:10
By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
~
Believers who have been saved by grace through faith practice righteousness. They are a new creation in Christ. Righteousness flows through their new-life veins. So they will begin practicing righteousness. Not perfectly yet, but they leave their life of sin even if/when they trip up.
1 John 1:5-10 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
~ John says that those who walk in darkness don't practice the truth. They lie as a habit. The believer is not walking in darkness, we are walking in light and do tell the truth.
We are in the sanctification process and will begin to lie less and less because we don't walk in darkness anymore. We are walking in the light and because of that we begin to tell the truth. We desire truth, we want to live truth.........we want to live Jesus because He is the truth.
And because we're walking in the truth, we admit our sin. We confess our sins to the Lord and because we're now walking in the light, because we're practicing righteousness even thought we may sin along the way, we are going to confess our sins and be cleansed because Jesus is righteous and faithful and forgives us.
My kids don't have to work, or try to be my children. THEY ARE BY BIRTH! Now, they disobey sometimes, even "habitually". BUT they know they REMAIN my children but will have to deal with the consequences of their disobeying. ONE of the consequences WILL NOT BE that they are no longer my children.
Sometimes parables we come up with just don't work. And I think this is one of them. We can't compare this with God's children because we don't have the same situation to compare. All of God's children are fallen even though He gave us life......He birthed us.
We, as fallen children have to accept His gift of grace through faith to be restored to a righteous relationship with Him. There are many who will not bow the knee and will not desire the new birth and will continue on in their sin. So we're not really comparing apples with apples in this example.
But I will say that the one who is truly born again are God's child forever. Because they will walk in the light, they won't walk in darkness. When we sin, He makes a way to cleanse us through confession and repentance.
Are we God's children by NEW BIRTH? Of course we are! WE ARE BORN AGAIN. We are forever His Children, and He will do what is necessary to transform us into the likeness of His One and only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ.
Yes, we are God's children through the new birth.
But our saying we're His child or our saying that we've been saved by grace through faith isn't so because we say so. It's through genuine faith that we are and it's because He says so and in His word, He shows us what it means to be saved/born again.
We've been chosen to obey. We've been called to obey. We are to abide and bear fruit. Easy believism will not agree with this. Easy believism allows the carnal person to continue on. Just say Jesus is Lord and you're in. Just say that God is your savior and all is well.
In other words, easy believism makes up their own rules whatever they want them to look like.
But God says only those who do my will are my children. Jesus says those who love me will obey my commandments. Easy believism doesn't like those words.
Just to pick one aspect of your post, NO ONE who is not born again is a child of God.
John 8:
23 And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
And John 8:
44 YOU ARE OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL and the desires of your YOUR FATHER you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
So very clearly those who are not born again have a different father than GOD.
prove the law was given to a gentile, with acts 15 already in place. and since your quote miss out these facts of acts 15, shows you own blindness to pick and choose scripture to suit your own belief.
you may read it,
Acts 15: The Jerusalem Council
1 But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved
5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses."
10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will."
Hi Ed,
Thanks for your honesty. And thanks for being kind with your words. I appreciate that so much!!! I also consider you a brother. We're all learning and growing in the Lord.
I agree that those not born again are not God's children, and that those without the new birth are children of the devil. I'm not sure what I said in my post that made you think I was saying that you don't have to be born again. We certainly must be born again or there's no life in us.
I even used the words new birth or born again in my post. Maybe you could quote something I said that would help explain what you're trying to share with me.
Thanks and God bless you!
Thanks for your honesty. And thanks for being kind with your words. I appreciate that so much!!! I also consider you a brother. We're all learning and growing in the Lord.
I agree that those not born again are not God's children, and that those without the new birth are children of the devil. I'm not sure what I said in my post that made you think I was saying that you don't have to be born again. We certainly must be born again or there's no life in us.
I even used the words new birth or born again in my post. Maybe you could quote something I said that would help explain what you're trying to share with me.
Thanks and God bless you!
with out truth of scripture or context of scripture , why study the bible, if your going to miss out the context of the history of the bible, then you ll only expose a liar or naive, to that belief system. if some want to continue in legalism or defending certain faiths or religion, that is there problem,
food for thought.
when did the pharisees believe jesus, yet continued in there own belief system, yet blind to seeing the history date 70ad. strange thing blindness, you need someone to make you see.
food for thought.
when did the pharisees believe jesus, yet continued in there own belief system, yet blind to seeing the history date 70ad. strange thing blindness, you need someone to make you see.
Hi Scot,
You stopped reading too soon. Keep reading a few more verses down from your text. Let's get a little more context.
So the two questions were - vs 5 - But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.”)
Question 1 - Circumcision?
Question 2 - Law of Moses?
Answer
Acts 15:28-29
For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: #1 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and #2 from blood and #3 from things strangled and #4 from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell.”
And as we read the rest of scripture there are commands given to us through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit proclaimed throughout the apostles. We also have the commands that Jesus left us with.
Example of easy believism
Jesus said that many would say to Him at His return (calling Him Lord) that they prophesied in His name, cast out demons in His name and did many miracles in His name. What did He tell them? "I never knew you; depart from ME, you who practice lawlessness." He also said, "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter."
There are genuine believers that do these things, but there are also those without genuine faith that will say they've done these things. What a sad day for them, they did not heed His warning.
The new birth is not about what we can do for the Lord, it's about obedience, it's about doing the will of God. Jesus couldn't make it more plain. Follow me, deny yourself, take up your cross daily.
The flesh doesn't want to deny the flesh. But those with a genuine faith will live the life that we're God calls us to ....... obedience.
I do not believe that with "true" salvation comes genuine repentance and real life change, because what we build on that foundation, we will be judged. That is why we will be held accountable to what we sow towards; the works of the flesh or the fruits of the Spirit, but that foundation laid by Jesus Christ... that salvation can never be removed.
So it is possible for someone to be saved... and sow to the works of the flesh and be worse than he was before he was saved because those that sow to the works of the flesh, shall reap corruption. That is a real warning given to saved believers.
So a carnal believer is a saved believer, risking his first inheritance of being left behind at the pre trib rapture event to be received later on as a vessel unto dishonor in His House for not looking to the author & finisher of his faith to help him lay aside every weight and sin in running that race to be received by the Bridegroom when He comes.
So I believe an unrepentant carnal believer is saved, but because he is saved, he needs to trust Jesus Christ to deliver him from his sins to no longer live in them and to trust Him as His Good Shepherd to lead him in walking in the light in following Him as His disciple to escape what is coming on the earth.
2 Peter 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.[SUP]22 [/SUP]But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
The danger is real even to any saved believers. So let us apply our faith in Jesus Christ in being our Good Shepherd to help us lay aside every weight & sin in following Him because God is not mocked.
Galatians 6:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.[SUP]9 [/SUP]And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.[SUP]10 [/SUP]As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
We have no business saying what true salvation is; because carnal believers are saved simply for believing in Jesus Christ, but it is because they are saved, they are called to depart from iniquity just like any other saved believer in running that race by faith in Jesus Christ to help them do it.
1 Corinthians 6:[SUP]19 [/SUP]What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?[SUP] 20 [/SUP]For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.[SUP] 2 [/SUP]And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
1 Corinthians 12:[SUP]25 [/SUP]That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.[SUP] 26 [/SUP]And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.[SUP]27 [/SUP]Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
Matthew 18:[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.[SUP] 12 [/SUP]How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?[SUP] 13 [/SUP]And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.[SUP] 14 [/SUP]Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.[SUP] 15 [/SUP]Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.[SUP] 16 [/SUP]But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.[SUP] 17 [/SUP]And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Any believer out there living in sin because they think they cannot quit that habitual sin, you go to Jesus Christ for that. It is not about you doing the best you can in repenting, but believing in Him as your Good Shepherd that He will help you lay aside the sin and all the provisions for that sin so you can follow Him. Trust Him today to deliver you from your bondage to sin & to death and trust Him to help you put away all provisions for the flesh that fulfills the lust thereof and keep your mind on good things and you will see yourself following Him by the grace of God and His help by faith alone.
[video=youtube;_rR_Rdb1CTE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rR_Rdb1CTE[/video]
So it is possible for someone to be saved... and sow to the works of the flesh and be worse than he was before he was saved because those that sow to the works of the flesh, shall reap corruption. That is a real warning given to saved believers.
So a carnal believer is a saved believer, risking his first inheritance of being left behind at the pre trib rapture event to be received later on as a vessel unto dishonor in His House for not looking to the author & finisher of his faith to help him lay aside every weight and sin in running that race to be received by the Bridegroom when He comes.
So I believe an unrepentant carnal believer is saved, but because he is saved, he needs to trust Jesus Christ to deliver him from his sins to no longer live in them and to trust Him as His Good Shepherd to lead him in walking in the light in following Him as His disciple to escape what is coming on the earth.
2 Peter 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.[SUP]22 [/SUP]But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
The danger is real even to any saved believers. So let us apply our faith in Jesus Christ in being our Good Shepherd to help us lay aside every weight & sin in following Him because God is not mocked.
Galatians 6:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.[SUP] 8 [/SUP]For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.[SUP]9 [/SUP]And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.[SUP]10 [/SUP]As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
We have no business saying what true salvation is; because carnal believers are saved simply for believing in Jesus Christ, but it is because they are saved, they are called to depart from iniquity just like any other saved believer in running that race by faith in Jesus Christ to help them do it.
1 Corinthians 6:[SUP]19 [/SUP]What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?[SUP] 20 [/SUP]For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.[SUP] 2 [/SUP]And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
1 Corinthians 12:[SUP]25 [/SUP]That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.[SUP] 26 [/SUP]And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.[SUP]27 [/SUP]Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
Matthew 18:[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.[SUP] 12 [/SUP]How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?[SUP] 13 [/SUP]And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.[SUP] 14 [/SUP]Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.[SUP] 15 [/SUP]Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.[SUP] 16 [/SUP]But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.[SUP] 17 [/SUP]And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Any believer out there living in sin because they think they cannot quit that habitual sin, you go to Jesus Christ for that. It is not about you doing the best you can in repenting, but believing in Him as your Good Shepherd that He will help you lay aside the sin and all the provisions for that sin so you can follow Him. Trust Him today to deliver you from your bondage to sin & to death and trust Him to help you put away all provisions for the flesh that fulfills the lust thereof and keep your mind on good things and you will see yourself following Him by the grace of God and His help by faith alone.
[video=youtube;_rR_Rdb1CTE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rR_Rdb1CTE[/video]
Hi gNp,
To sum it up what comes to mind is that it would be the obedience of the faith.
Romans 16:25-27
Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith; to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, be the glory forever. Amen.
To sum it up what comes to mind is that it would be the obedience of the faith.
Romans 16:25-27
Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith; to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, be the glory forever. Amen.
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Again I agree with you.
However the verse you quoted mentions mystery and a secret.
This is exactly what need unpacking and explaining...
You see what was the mystery and the secret that has now been manifested and what is its significance?
I am not being cryptic here: misunderstanding of this very thing is driving all the conflict on this forum and is threatening Christianity at large!
However the verse you quoted mentions mystery and a secret.
This is exactly what need unpacking and explaining...
You see what was the mystery and the secret that has now been manifested and what is its significance?
I am not being cryptic here: misunderstanding of this very thing is driving all the conflict on this forum and is threatening Christianity at large!
did you ever wonder, why one of the apostles, wrote this.
4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace
your not genuine, if you have no context. obedience to law, or god
it is not a continuing covenant, this would mean a change of covenant.
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law Galatians 3
21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.Galatians 2
just a few quote
4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace
your not genuine, if you have no context. obedience to law, or god
it is not a continuing covenant, this would mean a change of covenant.
15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law Galatians 3
21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.Galatians 2
just a few quote