God does not call the qualified, He qualifies those he calls. 
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??
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Then God will send you a wife and the wisdom required to honor God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
S
Paul said marriage was a choice. God can use you whether you choose to marry or stay single. That is all on you. 1 Cor 7. If you do marry you will have trouble in the flesh and I would spare you. But if you do marry you have not sinned. You can still be a pastor. Just one wife though. Not more than one.
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Paul said marriage was a choice. God can use you whether you choose to marry or stay single. That is all on you. 1 Cor 7. If you do marry you will have trouble in the flesh and I would spare you. But if you do marry you have not sinned. You can still be a pastor. Just one wife though. Not more than one.
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Paul said marriage was a choice. God can use you whether you choose to marry or stay single. That is all on you. 1 Cor 7. If you do marry you will have trouble in the flesh and I would spare you. But if you do marry you have not sinned. You can still be a pastor. Just one wife though. Not more than one.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The TPT version has an interesting take, based on the 1 Tim 2 footnotes: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+2&version=TPT
Which is to say, Paul's line was thought to be in reference to fresh converts from Helenistic religions such as the temple of Diana where women often spoke out over men (matriarchal sect).
Which is to say, Paul's line was thought to be in reference to fresh converts from Helenistic religions such as the temple of Diana where women often spoke out over men (matriarchal sect).
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Paul said marriage was a choice. God can use you whether you choose to marry or stay single. That is all on you. 1 Cor 7. If you do marry you will have trouble in the flesh and I would spare you. But if you do marry you have not sinned. You can still be a pastor. Just one wife though. Not more than one.
You what I find interesting those who are so legalistic about women preaching yet they have more compassion for transgender men and women LOL. These same types will justify a woman POTUS or leader when the Word says a woman shall not have authority over a man. Is that not hypocritical? Just asking.
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Of course your not going to take the time to answer my questions. I would have expected no other reply. Every person opposed to this interpretation flees from questions like the plague. One presenting questions and the other responding with answers, is how true discussions operate. Then the person, having given answer, posses their questions to the other side. If no one is willing to give answer, then either they fear their belief will not stand the true test of examination or they just want to espouse their thoughts.
I don't remember any question being posed in my direction. That maybe my fault but if you have one, ask away.
I don't remember any question being posed in my direction. That maybe my fault but if you have one, ask away.
Okay a possible working dialogue. Let's look at the first three questions and answers.
1) If Paul did not mean for a woman to teach, then why did he say it?
You answered: We have answered, you don't have to agree with the interpretation but it is not correct to say that we have refused to answer.
The answer was that He could have meant That a wife should not teach her husband in such a way as would be domineering, or forcing her views over his. Like Correcting form of Teaching. A disrespect. Like what you see when a wife corrects her husband in public Teaching him how he is wrong about something and she is going to correct him, telling him how it really should be said. It is embarrassing and not the kind of submissive spirit that she should have out of respect toward her husband. You want to apply it to Teaching the Bible in the pulpit and I think he is talking about Teaching her husband like one of the kids in the family. If it does mean teaching the bible it would still be in the context of teaching her husband something that is false doctrine that was going on in the church from the false teachers that were getting women to agree with their error and these women might have been trying to teach it to their husbands. If the husband said that they are in error with this doctrine they should submit to the husband and quit teaching it.
Your answer makes this about a husband and wife relationship. However the immediate context will not support this interpretation. There is no mention of the husband and wife in 1 Tim. 2. Paul was discussing that men should pray for leaders that we must lead a quiet and tranquil life. He then turns to the women and gives some instructions for them. Some of these women maybe married but the martial status is not under discussion here. It is simply women in general. The points of instruction for them is:
1). A woman is to adorn herself modestly. (v.9)
2). A woman is to learn in quietness with all subjection. (v.11)
3.) A woman is not permitted to teach nor have dominion over the man. (v.12)
Paul's explanation for this is given in verses 13-15. The question was why did he say this? I agree with you that it had everything to do with order in the assembly - question number 2. However, I cannot agree this has something to do with the husband and wife relationship. The immediate context will not support this as will be shown shortly.
Next question was:
2) If Paul said that a woman was to remain silent and it was shameful for her to speak, why did he say this?
You answered: Again the answer has been given several times. The context suggest that they were asking questions in the assembly in a disorderly manner. Two other times in 1 Cor 14 it says to be silent in the church. Tongues without an interpreter, prophesying when it is someone else's turn to prophesy, and women asking questions. The main point of the dialogue is doing things decently and in order.
Again I agree with you, that all of these things were said to maintain the proper godly order in the assembly. The instruction that women were to keep silent is still in effect today, just as are the other inhibiting instructions: 1) Speaking in another language without an interpreter, 2) Prophesying in a disorderly manner.
Next question was:
3) Where was the woman not to teach and speak?
You answered: Already answered in 2
So you agree with me, that the location for these instructions is in the assembly. The point of contention then is in the interpretation of 1 Tim. 2. You make it about the husband and wife relationship because of what Peter had to say. Thus, you attempt to extend the contextual understanding to far for proper interpretation. We must stay within Paul's Epistle for the proper understanding.
After Paul gave the instructions to Timothy about the women, he then followed it with the discussion of assembly offices .One must ignore the Chapter breaks as they are an invention of men. So the Epistle reads in this way:
1Ti 2:7-3:5 whereunto I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I speak the truth, I lie not), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. I desire therefore that the men pray in every place, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and disputing. In like manner, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefastness and sobriety; not with braided hair, and gold or pearls or costly raiment; but (which becometh women professing godliness) through good works. Let a woman learn in quietness with all subjection.
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness. For Adam was first formed, then Eve; and Adam was not beguiled, but the woman being beguiled hath fallen into transgression: but she shall be saved through her child-bearing, if they continue in faith and love and sanctification with sobriety.
Faithful is the saying, If a man seeketh the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. The bishop therefore must be without reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, orderly, given to hospitality, apt to teach; no brawler, no striker; but gentle, not contentious, no lover of money; one that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (but if a man knoweth not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
It is then easier to see the intended letter as it was written. Paul started by giving instructions to the men. He mentions he was appointed a Preacher and an Apostle, which brings ones thoughts back to assembly life. He then gives instructions for the women before he begins talking about the various offices of the assembly. It is obvious, if you let the Scriptures talk to you, that Paul did this because he wanted Timothy to clearly understand that women were disqualified from the positions he was bringing into the conversation. The portion dealing with the offices of the assembly.
No one can dispute that women have been, are, and will be used in many powerful ways by God, in the assistance of the ministry, witnessing and many other good works BUT teaching from the pulpit is not one of them.
1) If Paul did not mean for a woman to teach, then why did he say it?
You answered: We have answered, you don't have to agree with the interpretation but it is not correct to say that we have refused to answer.
The answer was that He could have meant That a wife should not teach her husband in such a way as would be domineering, or forcing her views over his. Like Correcting form of Teaching. A disrespect. Like what you see when a wife corrects her husband in public Teaching him how he is wrong about something and she is going to correct him, telling him how it really should be said. It is embarrassing and not the kind of submissive spirit that she should have out of respect toward her husband. You want to apply it to Teaching the Bible in the pulpit and I think he is talking about Teaching her husband like one of the kids in the family. If it does mean teaching the bible it would still be in the context of teaching her husband something that is false doctrine that was going on in the church from the false teachers that were getting women to agree with their error and these women might have been trying to teach it to their husbands. If the husband said that they are in error with this doctrine they should submit to the husband and quit teaching it.
Your answer makes this about a husband and wife relationship. However the immediate context will not support this interpretation. There is no mention of the husband and wife in 1 Tim. 2. Paul was discussing that men should pray for leaders that we must lead a quiet and tranquil life. He then turns to the women and gives some instructions for them. Some of these women maybe married but the martial status is not under discussion here. It is simply women in general. The points of instruction for them is:
1). A woman is to adorn herself modestly. (v.9)
2). A woman is to learn in quietness with all subjection. (v.11)
3.) A woman is not permitted to teach nor have dominion over the man. (v.12)
Paul's explanation for this is given in verses 13-15. The question was why did he say this? I agree with you that it had everything to do with order in the assembly - question number 2. However, I cannot agree this has something to do with the husband and wife relationship. The immediate context will not support this as will be shown shortly.
Next question was:
2) If Paul said that a woman was to remain silent and it was shameful for her to speak, why did he say this?
You answered: Again the answer has been given several times. The context suggest that they were asking questions in the assembly in a disorderly manner. Two other times in 1 Cor 14 it says to be silent in the church. Tongues without an interpreter, prophesying when it is someone else's turn to prophesy, and women asking questions. The main point of the dialogue is doing things decently and in order.
Again I agree with you, that all of these things were said to maintain the proper godly order in the assembly. The instruction that women were to keep silent is still in effect today, just as are the other inhibiting instructions: 1) Speaking in another language without an interpreter, 2) Prophesying in a disorderly manner.
Next question was:
3) Where was the woman not to teach and speak?
You answered: Already answered in 2
So you agree with me, that the location for these instructions is in the assembly. The point of contention then is in the interpretation of 1 Tim. 2. You make it about the husband and wife relationship because of what Peter had to say. Thus, you attempt to extend the contextual understanding to far for proper interpretation. We must stay within Paul's Epistle for the proper understanding.
After Paul gave the instructions to Timothy about the women, he then followed it with the discussion of assembly offices .One must ignore the Chapter breaks as they are an invention of men. So the Epistle reads in this way:
1Ti 2:7-3:5 whereunto I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I speak the truth, I lie not), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. I desire therefore that the men pray in every place, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and disputing. In like manner, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefastness and sobriety; not with braided hair, and gold or pearls or costly raiment; but (which becometh women professing godliness) through good works. Let a woman learn in quietness with all subjection.
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness. For Adam was first formed, then Eve; and Adam was not beguiled, but the woman being beguiled hath fallen into transgression: but she shall be saved through her child-bearing, if they continue in faith and love and sanctification with sobriety.
Faithful is the saying, If a man seeketh the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. The bishop therefore must be without reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, orderly, given to hospitality, apt to teach; no brawler, no striker; but gentle, not contentious, no lover of money; one that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (but if a man knoweth not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
It is then easier to see the intended letter as it was written. Paul started by giving instructions to the men. He mentions he was appointed a Preacher and an Apostle, which brings ones thoughts back to assembly life. He then gives instructions for the women before he begins talking about the various offices of the assembly. It is obvious, if you let the Scriptures talk to you, that Paul did this because he wanted Timothy to clearly understand that women were disqualified from the positions he was bringing into the conversation. The portion dealing with the offices of the assembly.
No one can dispute that women have been, are, and will be used in many powerful ways by God, in the assistance of the ministry, witnessing and many other good works BUT teaching from the pulpit is not one of them.
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1
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