Are there two gospels or ONE?

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ EDIT (I hate that I always need to edit, but feel compelled to, here): should read "saw [the LINEN clothes] "and believed"..."



[and I've stated before that I am inclined (based on scriptural evidences) not to believe the commonly-held notion that "that other disciple"/"the disciple whom Jesus loved"/etc was John, but someone else... not that it matters to the specific point of this post ]

 

[Rightlydivided]

I hope you dont think Jesus did not understand the gospel of grace.
Of course the disciples did not preach his death or resurrection.
But the " kingdom vs grace" deal is taken past its truthful dynamic in the pauline only adherants.

For one, grace first came through Jesus
Then peter and paul.
Probably peter first.

Trying to make some point about the disciples not knowing the future is to me a NA.
The question remains,do the pauline emphacisers have a point?
Faintly.
But take a simple dynamic and beat it into a non potable drink.
Grace came through Jesus.
Not paul.
Kingdom vs grace is basically a doorway to despise non pauline writings

“Pauline emphasizers”.....wow, could you display your resentment of Paul any better? I think you conveniently forget....Paul spoke the INSPIRED word of God, and was visited by CHRIST in order that his message WAS emphasized....so when you feel like taking Paul’s words “down a knotch” remember, PAUL spoke exactly what Jesus told him....Pauls epistles are Jesus’s words LITERALLY!

 

[Rightlydivided]

Now study what paul preached in the synagogues to the jews AFTER his conversion.
Apparently a good part of his ministry was indeed to Jews.
But,like I said ,all the nt is grace message. The opening of the gospel to the gentile came first through peter.
Peter knew the born again message
....grace

Of course, Paul always went straight to the synagogues, where there were Jews, gentiles and god fearing men, to start his message....usually a quick one as the opening always allowed for those to speak momentarily.....It is no secret that Paul wore 2 hats, he explains this many times over.

 

[Rightlydivided]

The whole debate has been over the gospel the disciples preached prior to the cross (and only to the Jews) versus the gospel that was taught after the cross (and the whole of this gospel was given to Paul).

Of course, Jesus understood. If I implied that, I apologize.

I’m certain he understood, but as he said to the gentile woman from Canaan, “for I came unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel”

 

[Absolutely]

Prior to the cross, what gospel was he preaching? The gospel of the Kingdom. That's not the same as the gospel of the death, burial and resurrection for sins he preached after the cross.

Jesus understood the gospel.
He understood grace. Lived it,taught it,embodied it.
"Born again",or saved by grace was what Jesus preached.
Gospel of the kingdom is grace.

 

[Absolutely]

Of course, Paul always went straight to the synagogues, where there were Jews, gentiles and god fearing men, to start his message....usually a quick one as the opening always allowed for those to speak momentarily.....It is no secret that Paul wore 2 hats, he explains this many times over.

As did peter.
Paul had no exclusiveive handle on grace.

 

[Absolutely]

Oh, bosh! There is no rapture in Rev. 14. The 144,000 Israelis are flesh and blood of their respective tribes that God is planning to keep alive through the GT.

Rev. 7:3, 4 "Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."

No one is in heaven and no one is going there (John 3:13).



There is no Pre-trib rapture, there are no humans in heaven, there are no humans going to heaven. Heaven "The Kingdom of" is coming to earth with Jesus Christ. There are only two resurrections (not counting Christ's): 1. At His coming. 2. After the 1000 years.

In rev 14 there is a rapture to heaven.
Jesus VIVIDLY depicts heaven as a place of dwelling to be built for his church.
The innumerable number , as well as the saints on white horses in rev are in heaven.
The rapture in 1 thes 4 is TO HEAVEN.
elijah,and elisha,as well as the ot patriarchs are all in heaven.
The 2 witnesses are raptured TO HEAVEN.

All that off the top of my head. I am sure there are others

 

[Absolutely]

If they didn't understand it, what gospel message were they preaching prior to the cross?

The messiah has come.

 

[Absolutely]

Well, what they DID know (and understand correctly) was the message that Jesus gave them to share (Matt10:7), "As ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of the heavens is at hand."


[this involves Jesus' tangible Personal Presence]



ADDING THIS:

[quoting]


Three Spheres of Christ's Glory - Andrew Miller [source: Bible Truth Publishers]

"In 1 Cor. 10:32 the apostle furnishes us with a classification of mankind which greatly helps not only to the understanding of prophecy but to the whole word of God. "Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God." Here we have the three great spheres in which the glory of Christ is displayed. As it respects man's condition before God in reference to eternity, there are but two classes, the saved and unsaved-those who have been really born again, and those who are still in nature's darkness and unbelief. But with regard to God's government of the world there are three classes-Jews, Gentiles, and the church; and no one can rightly divide the word of God who overlooks this division. To trace through scripture God's purpose concerning these three classes is the surest way to ascertain the order of God's dispensations, and the harmony of all portions of the holy scriptures with each other. At present we can only refer to a few passages of scripture by way of introducing the reader to this threefold purpose of God."

https://bibletruthpublishers.com/th...f-their-origin-progress-and-testimony/la58744

[end quoting; bold and underline mine--with certain caveats to remainder of article]

And what point are you making?

It seems to me,that trying to over emphasize 2 gospels winds up in the very error "paul only" adherants claim immunity of

 

[Absolutely]

They had no idea of the cross. The gospel is all about the truth of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The disciples were not anticipating the resurrection. Even when told, they thought it was an idle tale. Peter defended the Lord's arrest. Why would Peter do this if he understood God's plan? Simple, he did not.

Again, Jesus did.

 

[Absolutely]

QUOTE;""Oh, bosh! There is no rapture in Rev. 14. The 144,000 Israelis are flesh and blood of their respective tribes that God is planning to keep alive through the GT.""

Did you read rev 14?
How in the world could you not see it?
144k clearly in heaven before the throne
JESUS with a sickle reaping people alive from the earth.

Amazing you could miss that

 

[Absolutely]

Yes, so Peter was given a vision while visiting Cornelius....


Respectfully, are you choosing not to see? Who does it say the gospel of the uncircumcised was committed to? It literally says.... You can’t overlook that.....it says explicitly Paul....All this is not emphasizing the grafting in of the gentile, is is saying “who” was commissioned to preach it....you cannot find scripture, to support Peter taking Paul’s place...in Acts where Peter has the vision, was simply his revelation, to understand that Paul would go unto the gentile...and give Paul the “right hand of fellowship”

You are assuming that peter did not know the gospel.
1 peter was written from babylon.
Peter preached grace.
Read 1 peter.

 

[Absolutely]

I am seeking to know what is the goal of the 2 gospel adherents.

They have peter,james.and Jesus as clueless players,and paul as the master of and only truth bearer.

What is behind it?

Why would this be necessary?

 

[CharliRenee]

First, please let me say that I get how oversimplified my response is. I also realize I am repeating myself here, but the story of God and the bible should bring us to Him, regardless who is reading it or living it. I believe the message, the good news, of the Bible is this, no one gets to the Father but through Jesus Christ, that the Son of God died to bring Himself and His Father who are One to us. I believe when we focus on who He was talking to, we lose sight of Him and what His message is. We, the Gentiles, are grafted into Isreal. God has been establishing the temple of Himself so He can be with us. Isn't that the point of it all, regardless who He is addressing. God is with us. In the big scheme of things the audience addressed is to His children, the ones to Him we belong.

 

[Rightlydivided]

I am seeking to know what is the goal of the 2 gospel adherents.

They have peter,james.and Jesus as clueless players,and paul as the master of and only truth bearer.

What is behind it?

Why would this be necessary?

Have you heard of dispensationalism?

 

[glf1]

I want to make a separate topic of this:

Is the gospel of the kingdom different from the gospel of grace Paul preached?

In my opinion there is one gospel, because gospel just means glad tidings of good things. (or good news).

So whether its called Gospel of the Kingdom, grace, God, peace, doesn't matter. All of those are in the Bible, if we were to assume all of those gospels are different ones cause one is called the gospel of Peace and one is teh gospel of God, we would end up in an ABSOLUTE MESS.

I made this thread to "feel the waters" a bit and see where people on this forum stand on this issue. I hope I wont end up in the minority here, BUT as usual if scripture is provided to prove me wrong I will be QUICK to apologize, repent and CHANGE my views on it.
I am very much concerned about Matthew being "for the jews" and everytime something is brought up we go back to "its to the jews" or "when did Jesus preach 1 Corinthians 15:1-4" as if 1 corinthians 15:1-4 is all there is to the gospel.

Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Remember Paul also says who preaches another gospel is accursed. There is nowhere in the Bible where it says the gospel "switches" to a different one after the rapture happens or ANYTHING like that, that is pure reading into the text and assuming.

Hey! Hevosmies... : )

Gal 1:8 "But though we, or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

1 Tim 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness."

So, the Holy Spirit is the real author of all scripture, given to us to teach doctrine, and to reprove and correct us when we're wrong, and to instruct us on how to live righteously.

PTL!

 

[Rightlydivided]

First, please let me say that I get how oversimplified my response is. I also realize I am repeating myself here, but the story of God and the bible should bring us to Him, regardless who is reading it or living it. I believe the message, the good news, of the Bible is this, no one gets to the Father but through Jesus Christ, that the Son of God died to bring Himself and His Father who are One to us. I believe when we focus on who He was talking to, we lose sight of Him and what His message is. We, the Gentiles, are grafted into Isreal. God has been establishing the temple of Himself so He can be with us. Isn't that the point of it all, regardless who He is addressing. God is with us. In the big scheme of things the audience addressed is to His children, the ones to Him we belong.

I appreciate a simple response, I think at the core of it is something that relates to a message given while the law was in practice, to the lost sheep of Israel, which is the 4 gospels, Matthew etc....so labeling the time period of Christ’s earthly ministry, as “the dispensation of the law, would seem accurate..right? The law was still in practice? So we see in scripture, lessons that Jesus spoke of, that seem to only apply to those under the law.....if a reader cannot distinguish that very thing.....would the readers inadvertently apply the law unto themselves? vs a message that was given through Paul, that beyond this chat room, many across the world see a major difference in Paul’s epistles that focus on Grace, without the law, without such emphasis on works/repentance...we all know that Jesus preached veiled message as the mystery of the gentiles had not been preached yet....all words are the inspired word of God, as so is Pauls. Paul took the baton to preach the message to the gentiles in whole...This is easily found in scripture.....why? Because this is the dispensation of Grace....a different dispensation than Christ’s earthly ministry which was in the dispensation of the Law.....that does not mean that Christ did not have a message for us.....everything in the Bible is written for you, but everything in the Bible was not written about you.....

I wish we could all speak of this without everyone getting upset.....it is important to try the spirit, so gat we may all come to the truth, with our egos set aside.

This is one scripture I would like to have closure on, as Paul says: I have not come to Baptize.....compare this to Matthew 28, The great commission....if a delema is found, please acknowledge and discuss it as children of God.

1 Corinthians 1:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Here is Jesus speaking to the 12, and notice they still did not all believe in previous scripture....not that I’m making a point with that...but it was amazing that even then...those that saw him were doubting....

Matthew 28:19-20 King James Version (KJV)
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Honestly, am I missing something?? Or is this a delema? Or easily explained?

 

[John146]

Hey! Hevosmies... : )

Gal 1:8 "But though we, or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

1 Tim 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness."

So, the Holy Spirit is the real author of all scripture, given to us to teach doctrine, and to reprove and correct us when we're wrong, and to instruct us on how to live righteously.

PTL!

The gospel Paul is referring to is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for sins. This was kept secret since the world began. Paul says it is now revealed. We see the types and shadows through the OT scriptures and prophets, but now we understand what all those types and shadows point to.

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

 

[Deade]

QUOTE;""Oh, bosh! There is no rapture in Rev. 14. The 144,000 Israelis are flesh and blood of their respective tribes that God is planning to keep alive through the GT.""

Did you read rev 14?
How in the world could you not see it?
144k clearly in heaven before the throne
JESUS with a sickle reaping people alive from the earth.

Amazing you could miss that

Oh! I missed nothing. There is a heavenly realm on earth at all times. You are taking the very figurative language of Revelation and drawing doctrine from it. Rev. chapters 5 & 6 start supposedly in heaven (Rev. 4:1) but then describe things on earth. Revelation is not often literal and not chronological. Either it fits together or just throw it all out.

Do you not think everything happening on earth is not visible from God's throne? I am sure it is. The following is a vision that is pulled from the future:

Rev. 6:9, 10 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"

Just like Abel's blood cried from the ground in God's perception Gen. 4:10).

 

[Absolutely]

Have you heard of dispensationalism?

Yes
Dispensing of time.
Seasons.
Very biblical