Are our Good Works, done with faith in Christ "filthy rags" (Isa 64:6) or "fine linen" (Rev 19:8).

[Asterismos]

Lot of good points and well documented. James 1:22. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your selves. 1:23. For if any one be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like a unto man beholding his natural face in a glass. AKEOATIS in Greek means = hearers. And deceiving, false reasoning, in Greek means = PARALOGIZOMAI . Those who are hearers of the word are playing church. Some wont study the bible, they have a pretext for favorite pastor or want Gods word tailored to suit their needs. Others use churches for smoke screen to cover their wickedness. Its based on false pretenses. Its lip service. Am I judging people, NO !!. Matthew 16:24. Then said Jesus unto His disciples, If any man will come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his Cross and follow ME. It all hinges on the word Will?. Let's be honest. Lot of folks don't want to make sacrifice for Jesus. Give up their sinful lifestyles. Being alienated from their contemporaries, family, friends. Persecution is another factor. Jesus taught many seeds wont germinate. Only those seeds that fall on good soil will germinate, documentation, Matthew chapter 13:3. To 21. The parable of the sower. It helps stipulate why many people wont carry their own cross. Any student of the bible should know this or understand. I know what I'm talking about. I'm one of God's Elect, and I studied under pastor Arnold murray who is a scholar of the bible. I'm seed planter and only Jesus can germinate those seeds. Titus chapter 3 states not to strive or debate God's laws and provisions. Dont try to bait me, I won't reply.

 

[JaumeJ]

Fine Linen.

The filthy rags quoters tend to be the "not of works" people, the folks who don't know that "works" refer to the works of the law of Moses, not a faith that works by love. Gotta make sure you not earning that salvation now.

Our works, our deeds without the Lord are filthy rags.

God gives us works. He is the Actual One woking through us by the Holy Spirit. Because we believe and are willing, we are counted as having righteous works, not our own but His.

The works He gives us are the white robes mentioned in Revelation. These white linens are our attire for the wedding feast I believe.

 

[TMS]

Like many have said.

Our works are not able to make us clean. Our works are like filthy rags when compaired to Jesus.

When Jesus works in us, it is no glory to us. The good works are thanks to Jesus in us.

We are given by faith a clean, pure robe of righteousness. Praise God for Jesus.

We will continue to have a corrupt and weak carnal nature because all have sinned and Satan continues to temp us.

So we are needy and flithy but by faith we can be clean and Justified.

1Co 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

 

[ResidentAlien]

It depends on a person's motivation. Acts of obedience done for no other reason than that we have been born again through Christ's final work on the cross are acceptable. Works done because a person believes Christ's work on the cross wasn't final and sufficient are filthy rags. If a person thinks they have to maintain their state of grace by bowing down to the false wafer Jesus, or other sacraments, they'll die in their sins; and no purgatory will help them.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

John 5:21
For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

right lol this is what he the son said

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

that’s how he’s made the offer and who is it that’s going to respond ? Only those who hear and believe the gospel

“For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?

and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?

and how shall they hear without a preacher?

And how shall they preach, except they be sent?

as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:11-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s like you are saying God will save some people and throw others away but it’s not going to happen like Jesus said

You know how Christine read Paul talking about being set free ? Free people have a choice each day of what they do and don’t do

like this it’s an option

“For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty;

only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh,

but by love serve one another.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s a choice who we yield our service to

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;
whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity;

even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16-17, 19‬ ‭KJV‬‬


We can yield to sin and serve satans Will which brings death or we can yield ourselves to God in Christ and serve righteousness and live

notice the scriptures are just saying what they are saying ? It isn’t “ you have no choice who to yield your body to sin or righteousness you have no choice “

that’s the opposite of what he’s saying he’s saying “ don’t you realize whoever you yield yourself to serve whether sin or righteousness hate going to be who you belong to “

it’s exactly the opposite of saying “ we have no part no role no choice “ he’s Informing us of the truth

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


How much clearer if you keep
Living in sin your going to die , but if you through the gospel put to death the deeds of the flesh you will live “

The gospel is attempting to correct our mind because we think stuff like “ we have no pet in salvstion it does t matter what we do we’re either saved or lost “

God is saying “ come to Jesus and hear what he’s saying and believe me I will give you everlasting life “

Christina get stuck on what we used to think about God but we can learn the truth from Jesus about him , in the end brother God has made salvation freely available in the world some will hear the gospel d believe others will say I believe and then Hear the gospel and reject it sadly because they aren’t willing to accept what he said against what they used to think

We can accept the gift or reject it but it’s always going to be the same gift same offer from the same one and it’s always going to be found in the gospel of the kingdom

if we werent convinced we had no choice by the world , we might hear the chioce given by Jesus and choose life but not if we don’t believe we’re capable

“I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭4:13‬ ‭

if we aren’t capable of choosing to do the right thing we’re missing the whole point of the gospel and having the Holy Spirit live in us

 

[Saul-to-Paul]

right lol this is what he the son said

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

that’s how he’s made the offer and who is it that’s going to respond ? Only those who hear and believe the gospel

“For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?

and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?

and how shall they hear without a preacher?

And how shall they preach, except they be sent?

as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:11-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s like you are saying God will save some people and throw others away but it’s not going to happen like Jesus said

You know how Christine read Paul talking about being set free ? Free people have a choice each day of what they do and don’t do

like this it’s an option

“For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty;

only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh,

but by love serve one another.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s a choice who we yield our service to

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;
whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity;

even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16-17, 19‬ ‭KJV‬‬


We can yield to sin and serve satans Will which brings death or we can yield ourselves to God in Christ and serve righteousness and live

notice the scriptures are just saying what they are saying ? It isn’t “ you have no choice who to yield your body to sin or righteousness you have no choice “

that’s the opposite of what he’s saying he’s saying “ don’t you realize whoever you yield yourself to serve whether sin or righteousness hate going to be who you belong to “

it’s exactly the opposite of saying “ we have no part no role no choice “ he’s Informing us of the truth

“Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


How much clearer if you keep
Living in sin your going to die , but if you through the gospel put to death the deeds of the flesh you will live “

The gospel is attempting to correct our mind because we think stuff like “ we have no pet in salvstion it does t matter what we do we’re either saved or lost “

God is saying “ come to Jesus and hear what he’s saying and believe me I will give you everlasting life “

Christina get stuck on what we used to think about God but we can learn the truth from Jesus about him , in the end brother God has made salvation freely available in the world some will hear the gospel d believe others will say I believe and then Hear the gospel and reject it sadly because they aren’t willing to accept what he said against what they used to think

We can accept the gift or reject it but it’s always going to be the same gift same offer from the same one and it’s always going to be found in the gospel of the kingdom

if we werent convinced we had no choice by the world , we might hear the chioce given by Jesus and choose life but not if we don’t believe we’re capable

“I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭4:13‬ ‭

if we aren’t capable of choosing to do the right thing we’re missing the whole point of the gospel and having the Holy Spirit live in us

There is no offer.
The Son quickeneth whom he will.

An offer would read, the Son quickeneth whoever wants to be quickened.

But you are missing a crucial point. A person has to be alive to believe. A unsaved person does not resurrect him/herself by believing. He or she can't because he/she is dead.

Lazarus didn't cry from the grave and asked to be resurrected. Lazarus had to wait upon Jesus to be resurrected. Likewise with the dead soul.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Dear Friends, let's discuss these two verses: Isa 64:6 and Rev 19:8.

Isa 64:6

"All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away."

http://web.mit.edu/jywang/www/cef/Bible/NIV/NIV_Bible/ISA+64.html

Rev 19:8

"She has been given the privilege of wearing fine linen, dazzling and pure." (The fine linen represents the righteous deeds of the saints.)"

https://biblehub.com/isv/revelation/19.htm

Now, on surface appearance, these two verses seem to be saying different saying things because what is fine linen is surely not the filthy rag, but the exact opposite. And likewise what is a filthy rag is definitely not fine linen that is a privilege to wear. So how do we understand?

My own understanding, in brief: I've seen some Pastors use this verse to teach "Total Depravity" (the "T" in the Calvinist Theory of TULIP), or something very close to it). I disagree. The Prophet Isaiah is speaking of works done without faith, or even of those who go on sinning after knowing the Truth, and without calling on the Name of the Lord, as is clear from the context.

Look at the following and preceding verses in Isa 64:

Verse 5: "You come to the help of those who gladly do right, who remember your ways. But when we continued to sin against them, you were angry. How then can we be saved?"

So here the Prophet is speaking of those who go on continuing to sin, don't accept the Lord's Prophets etc. It is those bad works that he calls filthy rags, certainly not good works done with true faith in Christ, and out of pure love for God.

Verse 7: "No one calls on your name or strives to lay hold of you; for you have hidden your face from us and made us waste away because of our sins."

And this makes it even clearer. The Lord is angry with them because they are not even calling on the Name of the Lord, or clinging to Him in time of trouble. So He is angry with them either for their complete lack of faith and trust in Him, or at best for their dead faith and lukewarm trust in Him. Certainly, He is not angry with them for a Good Work, like e.g. Fasting, which the Lord commended in Isaiah itself just a few chapters prior in Isa 58, especially when accompanied by Prayer and Alms-giving etc. Before that, He rebuked them for bad fasts.

"6“Is this not the fast that I have chosen: To loose the bonds of wickedness, To undo the [c]heavy burdens, To let the oppressed go free, And that you break every yoke? 7Is it not to share your bread with the hungry, And that you bring to your house the poor who are [d]cast out; When you see the naked, that you cover him, And not hide yourself from your own flesh?

8Then your light shall break forth like the morning, Your healing shall spring forth speedily, And your righteousness shall go before you; The glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard. 9Then you shall call, and the Lord will answer; You shall cry, and He will say, ‘Here I am.’"

A final example will also illustrate further. If in Proverbs 28:9 it is said: "One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, Even his prayer is an abomination." it cannot legitimately be concluded from that, obviously, that praying itself is an abomination, which would be absurd.

Only the refusing to obey God or God's Law was displeasing to God, and then even "praying" without wanting to do God's will became an abomination, and therefore that was written. Similarly, Isaiah speaks of "filthy rags" etc.

Thoughts on all this, dear friends?

God Bless.

Simple - your "WORKS" have nothing to do with your salvation, only with your "Christian maturity" / Level of reward - post mortem - depending on your "motivation" for doing them.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

It depends on a person's motivation. Acts of obedience done for no other reason than that we have been born again through Christ's final work on the cross are acceptable. Works done because a person believes Christ's work on the cross wasn't final and sufficient are filthy rags. If a person thinks they have to maintain their state of grace by bowing down to the false wafer Jesus, or other sacraments, they'll die in their sins; and no purgatory will help them.

Are you sure about that? What's your exegesis of 1 Cor 3:13-15, then: "13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." (1 Cor 3:13-15).

Yes, good works cannot earn salvation itself, that I agree. And before justification, no good work can justify us; but after justification, by Grace through Faith in Christ, the good works done with faith in Christ earn or merit, not salvation itself, but eternal rewards in Heaven. That is plain from the Verse 14 above, and is further confirmed a few verses earlier, where it says: "every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour." The context is above those who labor for the Lord in e.g. Evangelism etc, as both Paul and Apollos were doing.

You didn't quote a single verse, Resident Alien, backing up anything you said, but just some made some bald assertions. The actual degree or level of reward is based on the love of God with which works are done, according to: "2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body [a]to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing."

And it is confirmed by the Lord Jesus Himself in Revelation 2: "2I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: 3And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. 4Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. 5Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. " Here the Lord is not saying that they have yet lost salvation, but they are in danger of losing many rewards, because they have left or fallen from their first love.

Now, what do you understand by the latter part of the verse I quoted above, that "for those works are burned up, in the Day revealed by fire", they shall "suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire"?

Be back shortly to answer the others' questions. God Bless.

 

[TMS]

Simple - your "WORKS" have nothing to do with your salvation, only with your "Christian maturity" / Level of reward - post mortem - depending on your "motivation" for doing them.

God is judge. I agree that works do not save us. Faith in Christ dose save us. But i find works are important.
Jesus talked about people that know about Him and believe in the gospel.
Mat 7:20-23
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Notice "he that doeth the will of"
And "I never knew you" & "by their fruits you shall know them".
James makes it clear that if you just believe and you have no works it is a dead faith.
Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
They all know Jesus, and believed in Him. They all had the Holy Spirit. They all went out to meet the Lord.

Mat 25: 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

God is judge. I agree that works do not save us. Faith in Christ dose save us. But i find works are important.

They're essentially the "Expected Fruit" in the life of a person who is indwelled by the Holy Spirit, who, as the result of His intrinsic nature, will ensure that "Good Works" will be the result of HIS presence. AT Christ's judgement seat (that only the SAVED will attend), our "Heavenly "Status" will be based in them. We'll be rewarded, or suffer loss based on our "works".