Are curses still relevant to the Christians?
- Thread starter Roughsoul1991
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I am not trying to pick on anyone. However, this is a thread about whether curses are relevant to Christians.
It’s not just that there are no examples of curses being broken in the New Testament, and it’s not just that Jesus did not break any curses; there are no examples of curses being broken anywhere in the Old Testament either. No one is going to come up with any examples. I have had dialogs about curses with world prevalent curse-breaking ministries, and they could not answer my questions either, so no one should feel picked on.
I studied this issue intensely, beginning almost 10 years ago. My goal was to gain sufficient knowledge about curses in order to prove that all curses were broken on the Cross. I was wrong. No curses were broken on the Cross. But I was maybe 3 or 4 years into the process before I realized that.
The catalyst of my goals stated above was to prove generational curses, as seemingly described in Exodus 20:5, were broken on the Cross. I was wrong again. After several months of looking carefully at the subject of generational curses—which do exist in scripture—I finally realized that Exodus 20:5 and similar passages are not referring to generational curses.
I had to give up my preconceived ideas about curses when faced with scriptural truth. Now, I had the advantage that most people don’t have when confronted with truth that contradicts a person’s belief system. I discovered the truth about curses in the word with just the Lord and I, so there was no cause for my defenses to flare up. I didn’t have to experience the discomfort of someone else pointing out my error.
Anyone that wants to really understand the truth about curses must drop their ego, preconceived ideas, pray, and face what the scripture really says.
It’s not just that there are no examples of curses being broken in the New Testament, and it’s not just that Jesus did not break any curses; there are no examples of curses being broken anywhere in the Old Testament either. No one is going to come up with any examples. I have had dialogs about curses with world prevalent curse-breaking ministries, and they could not answer my questions either, so no one should feel picked on.
I studied this issue intensely, beginning almost 10 years ago. My goal was to gain sufficient knowledge about curses in order to prove that all curses were broken on the Cross. I was wrong. No curses were broken on the Cross. But I was maybe 3 or 4 years into the process before I realized that.
The catalyst of my goals stated above was to prove generational curses, as seemingly described in Exodus 20:5, were broken on the Cross. I was wrong again. After several months of looking carefully at the subject of generational curses—which do exist in scripture—I finally realized that Exodus 20:5 and similar passages are not referring to generational curses.
I had to give up my preconceived ideas about curses when faced with scriptural truth. Now, I had the advantage that most people don’t have when confronted with truth that contradicts a person’s belief system. I discovered the truth about curses in the word with just the Lord and I, so there was no cause for my defenses to flare up. I didn’t have to experience the discomfort of someone else pointing out my error.
Anyone that wants to really understand the truth about curses must drop their ego, preconceived ideas, pray, and face what the scripture really says.
There does seem to be a difference in meaning for example,
Exodus 21:17
7043. qalal
trī′flĭng
adjective
7045. qelalah
Exodus 21:17
And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
7043. qalal
Strong's Concordance
qalal: to be slight, swift or trifling
[קָלַל]82 verb be slight, swift, trifling (probably originally be light; Late Hebrew [קָלַל], קַל, קִלֵּל=Biblical Hebrew; Assyrian ‡alâlu II. depise, dishonour; so Tel Amarna
triflingqalal: to be slight, swift or trifling
[קָלַל]82 verb be slight, swift, trifling (probably originally be light; Late Hebrew [קָלַל], קַל, קִלֵּל=Biblical Hebrew; Assyrian ‡alâlu II. depise, dishonour; so Tel Amarna
trī′flĭng
adjective
- Of little worth or importance. synonym: trivial.
- Frivolous or foolish.
- Being of small value or importance; trivial; paltry
To me it is speaking of dishonoring, little in importance, little worth, foolish, small value, etc.
Deuteronomy 28:15
Deuteronomy 28:15
But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:
7045. qelalah
Strong's Concordance
qelalah: a curse
qelalah: a curse
This curse on the other hand seems to be solely supernatural in nature due to context of the results.
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It seems to be from scripture, we only have two types of curses. A judgement of God and words uttered by humans.
It seems to be from the original language the curses of God carried supernatural actions.
The words uttered by men was a heart of dishonor, low value, seeing the other person as foolish.
I have also heard in the past it could also be connected to pagan practices where people would often pray to false gods for harm to come against that individual. But of course, these false gods had no such power. (I'll have to double check this paragraph to see if I remembered correctly.)
It seems to be from the original language the curses of God carried supernatural actions.
The words uttered by men was a heart of dishonor, low value, seeing the other person as foolish.
I have also heard in the past it could also be connected to pagan practices where people would often pray to false gods for harm to come against that individual. But of course, these false gods had no such power. (I'll have to double check this paragraph to see if I remembered correctly.)
Because, as I stated before, Scripture does not contain examples of everything that we as Christians will have to address. Further, Jesus plainly stated that His followers would do greater works than He did during His earthly ministry.
Again, you are welcome to take the "Church of Christ" approach to the matter; I don't.
Again, you are welcome to take the "Church of Christ" approach to the matter; I don't.
Again, you can't provide scriptural proof of your beliefs, and again you lash out when asked to do so. This is quite a little belief system you have going on.
You should start a new denomination and call it the, “The Church of The Emperor Has New Clothes.” You could create a website and in the “What We Believe” section you could say,
None of our doctrines can actually be found in scripture but just trust us—we know they are true.
The apologetics training for your members could be handled in one short class. You could tell them,
“Look, we don’t adhere to any of that, ‘Let God be true and everyman a liar’ stuff. If anyone challenges our teaching just rebuke them with:
Oh, you are from the Church of Christ!
That’s our hermeneutics!”
You could appoint yourself Chief Apostle and carry your Bible into church. If anyone asks you about it just say,
“Oh this? It’s just a book I use for decoration. Sort of a prop really. Now go sit down and don’t ask any questions!”
I have missionary friends that have been to mexico, haiti, and india.
You would be amazed at the devastation from witch doctors and warlocks.
So much physical and mental destruction from these demons.
They operate SOLELY in cursing.
From websters;
CURSE, verb transitive preterit tense and participle passive cursed or curst.
1. To utter a wish of evil against one; to imprecate evil upon; to call for mischief or injury to fall upon; to execrate.
Thou shalt not curse the ruler of thy people. Exodus 22:28.
Bless and curse not. Romans 12:14.
CURSE me this people, for they are too mighty for me. Numbers 22:6.
2. To injure; to subject to evil; to vex, harass or torment with great calamities.
You would be amazed at the devastation from witch doctors and warlocks.
So much physical and mental destruction from these demons.
They operate SOLELY in cursing.
From websters;
CURSE, verb transitive preterit tense and participle passive cursed or curst.
1. To utter a wish of evil against one; to imprecate evil upon; to call for mischief or injury to fall upon; to execrate.
Thou shalt not curse the ruler of thy people. Exodus 22:28.
Bless and curse not. Romans 12:14.
CURSE me this people, for they are too mighty for me. Numbers 22:6.
2. To injure; to subject to evil; to vex, harass or torment with great calamities.
I know all the anecdotal, unverified stories.
Show me in the Word of God, one single case of a fulfilled satanic curse.
Exodus 22:28, and Romans 12:14 are execrations, not imprecations. An execration is a form of expressing contempt, whereas an imprecation is an effort to invoke a supernatural evil or divine force upon the recipient. There is more to this subject than looking up a dictionary definition or listing verses that happen to contain the word curse. We have to approach this with at least a modicum of sophistication.
Your last reference was half right. Numbers 22:6 is, in fact, King Balak attempting to hire Balaam to place a curse on Israel, and therefore is referring to an imprecation. The problem is, when Balaam considered the king’s offer, he sought advice from Jehovah, not a pagan deity. I would encourage you to look it up.
Since when does someone inquire of the Lord to put a satanic curse on someone? Balaam knew the only source of curses and went to that source hoping to get permission to curse for profit. There is more to this subject than sampling the word “curse” and listing references.
I have had extended conversations with a pastor in Africa who says the populace is overcome with superstitious views and beliefs about curses. For every anecdotal story, there is a counterpoint. Therefore, I keep—attempting—to drive the conversation back to the scripture.
Anyone that reads some of my recent posts will find that I have been very open and transparent about my own journey on this subject. I was wrong about a lot of my ideas and had to change my thinking.
Even the most virulent curse deliverance proponent, who has been reading through this thread, should take pause at how many times I have asked for and not received scriptural proof of examples of fulfilled evil curses and examples of curse breaking from the scripture. What does it take for some to go:
“Hmm, maybe I need to take another open-minded look at this subject?”
I honestly cannot think of another doctrine in which many Christians are so emotionally committed in the face of such a dearth of scriptural support. If I were to take an Armenian position on a doctrine and asked Calvinists to provide me with scriptural proofs of their beliefs, they would load those passages in cannons, shoot them at me, and the volley would continue for months. It would be the same if I were a Calvinist challenging the Armenians. If I were a pre-tribulationist and asked post-tribulationists for scriptural proof, the rapture happens at the end of the tribulation, it would be on like donkey-kong and vice versa. However, when it comes to the subject of curses, I rarely get any scriptural rebuttal and if I do it is always at a low-resolution level. In other words, “curses bad!” Most people don’t even understand such basic concepts such as imprecations versus execrations. It is usually those same people who make the most assertive claims.
After many years of conversations with curse deliverance proponents, I know what they want.
They want to believe in curse deliverance.
They want to believe in breaking generational curses.
They want to believe Balaam sought a satanic curse.
They want to believe anyone that utters an imprecation will release a curse.
I also know something they don’t want. They don’t want the scripture to prove them wrong.
Show me in the Word of God, one single case of a fulfilled satanic curse.
Exodus 22:28, and Romans 12:14 are execrations, not imprecations. An execration is a form of expressing contempt, whereas an imprecation is an effort to invoke a supernatural evil or divine force upon the recipient. There is more to this subject than looking up a dictionary definition or listing verses that happen to contain the word curse. We have to approach this with at least a modicum of sophistication.
Your last reference was half right. Numbers 22:6 is, in fact, King Balak attempting to hire Balaam to place a curse on Israel, and therefore is referring to an imprecation. The problem is, when Balaam considered the king’s offer, he sought advice from Jehovah, not a pagan deity. I would encourage you to look it up.
Since when does someone inquire of the Lord to put a satanic curse on someone? Balaam knew the only source of curses and went to that source hoping to get permission to curse for profit. There is more to this subject than sampling the word “curse” and listing references.
I have had extended conversations with a pastor in Africa who says the populace is overcome with superstitious views and beliefs about curses. For every anecdotal story, there is a counterpoint. Therefore, I keep—attempting—to drive the conversation back to the scripture.
Anyone that reads some of my recent posts will find that I have been very open and transparent about my own journey on this subject. I was wrong about a lot of my ideas and had to change my thinking.
Even the most virulent curse deliverance proponent, who has been reading through this thread, should take pause at how many times I have asked for and not received scriptural proof of examples of fulfilled evil curses and examples of curse breaking from the scripture. What does it take for some to go:
“Hmm, maybe I need to take another open-minded look at this subject?”
I honestly cannot think of another doctrine in which many Christians are so emotionally committed in the face of such a dearth of scriptural support. If I were to take an Armenian position on a doctrine and asked Calvinists to provide me with scriptural proofs of their beliefs, they would load those passages in cannons, shoot them at me, and the volley would continue for months. It would be the same if I were a Calvinist challenging the Armenians. If I were a pre-tribulationist and asked post-tribulationists for scriptural proof, the rapture happens at the end of the tribulation, it would be on like donkey-kong and vice versa. However, when it comes to the subject of curses, I rarely get any scriptural rebuttal and if I do it is always at a low-resolution level. In other words, “curses bad!” Most people don’t even understand such basic concepts such as imprecations versus execrations. It is usually those same people who make the most assertive claims.
After many years of conversations with curse deliverance proponents, I know what they want.
They want to believe in curse deliverance.
They want to believe in breaking generational curses.
They want to believe Balaam sought a satanic curse.
They want to believe anyone that utters an imprecation will release a curse.
I also know something they don’t want. They don’t want the scripture to prove them wrong.
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If I tell you if you smoke you will get cancer, and you keep on smoking and get cancer, is that curse supernatural or is what you are doing in the natural manifesting in your life?
God gave Israel a warning, this will be the result of your sins, and Israel kept on sinning. Was it supernatural? I don't think so. My opinion is it was a physical manifestation as a result of their sins.
God gave Israel a warning, this will be the result of your sins, and Israel kept on sinning. Was it supernatural? I don't think so. My opinion is it was a physical manifestation as a result of their sins.
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