Apostasy 101

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Hazelelponi

Hazelelponi

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#561
Jul 8, 2019
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#561
Noose said:
All i know is Zaccheus had a change of heart towards others and decided to give what he had to them and thus salvation came to his household- this is faith that saves.
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Doing thing's doesn't make saving faith - the Pharisees did more things than any of them...

placing ones full trust in God - that's saving faith.
 
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Enxu

Active member
#562
Jan 13, 2020
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#562
Hazelelponi said:
Doing thing's doesn't make saving faith - the Pharisees did more things than any of them...

placing ones full trust in God - that's saving faith.
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Apostle James in James 2 did say faith without works is dead and cannot save. The Pharisees did those works not because they had faith but because they wanted honor from men. They did works without any faith to begin with. In fact they acted in contrary to faith and were hypocrites.

Works without faith - useless
Works with faith - evidence for faith
 
Hazelelponi

Hazelelponi

Well-known member
#563
Jul 8, 2019
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#563
Enxu said:
Apostle James in James 2 did say faith without works is dead and cannot save. The Pharisees did those works not because they had faith but because they wanted honor from men. They did works without any faith to begin with. In fact they acted in contrary to faith and were hypocrites.

Works without faith - useless
Works with faith - evidence for faith
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Placing our full trust in God, our full faith in God's work for salvation, has real life consequences, meaning, we put our lives in His Hand in love - and we seek out of love to do what is pleasing to Him.

Works aren't done in return for eternal life (a slaves wage) they are born out of love for our Father who so greatly loved us as to give us such a precious gift in His Son.

The Pharisees trusted in themselves, in their works, in their understanding of prophecy, in how other men saw them - what they failed to do was to trust in Him, in His works, in His actions, in His interpretation, in His Son... because they were focused on self, and trusting in their actions while failing to see their actions were futile in the face of a sovereign God and their acts of righteousness were as filthy rags to that which is Holy.

You can't say do works, without first showing what is love.
 
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Enxu

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#564
Jan 13, 2020
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#564
Hazelelponi said:
Placing our full trust in God, our full faith in God's work for salvation, has real life consequences, meaning, we put our lives in His Hand in love - and we seek out of love to do what is pleasing to Him.

Works aren't done in return for eternal life (a slaves wage) they are born out of love for our Father who so greatly loved us as to give us such a precious gift in His Son.

The Pharisees trusted in themselves, in their works, in their understanding of prophecy, in how other men saw them - what they failed to do was to trust in Him, in His works, in His actions, in His interpretation, in His Son... because they were focused on self, and trusting in their actions while failing to see their actions were futile in the face of a sovereign God and their acts of righteousness were as filthy rags to that which is Holy.

You can't say do works, without first showing what is love.
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Where did I say works are to be done in return for eternal life? I didn’t. I said it is a result (evidence) of having faith. I don’t know what the disagreement even is?
 
Hazelelponi

Hazelelponi

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#565
Enxu said:
Where did I say works are to be done in return for eternal life? I didn’t. I said it is a result (evidence) of having faith. I don’t know what the disagreement even is?
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I can't tell what pov anyone has, it seems many are confused and many responses can be taken more than one way so I'm lost on where everyone is coming from.

My point - as with the Bibles - is that any works we do are born in love.

The Bible continually speaks of God's relationship with Israel as a marriage.

In my marriage I do many things daily out of love for my husband, and he does many things daily out of love for me.

I don't see those things I do as matters of "keeping" him, he'd stay with me regardless because he's a solid Christian man, I do them because I love to see him smile, I love to help him because he's worthy of my help, I love him to be proud of me, I relish his love for me, and I do many little things because I love him.

It's the same with God. Love hangs from a tree for just a glimpse of the Savior, it trusts in that Savior with everything it is and has..

Love behaves a certain way, it has works, but the reasoning behind them comes from a changed heart, one reborn in love.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#566
#566
Enxu said:
Yes I did. But they NEVER had faith? Really?

Exodus 14:21 When the Israelites saw the great power with which the LORD had defeated the Egyptians, they stood in awe of the LORD; and they had faith in the LORD and in his servant Moses.

Are you reading a different Bible?
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So they left and from that time forward showed how much they lacked faith starting at the riverThe very next day.
and you want me to believe they had true saving faith?

You all can not keep your stories right. You have people who believed one day bur the next day and the rest of their lives having no faith (unbelief) proving by their grumbling

And you wonder why we can’t see things your way
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#567
#567
Enxu said:
Unfortunately none of that is true about us. We never believed we are earning salvation to begin with. We do what is required because we love Jesus. Carry on.
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If you have to do what is required then your earning salvation
to think otherwise is well. I think you know what it is.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#568
#568
Enxu said:
If you love Me, you will obey My Commandments - words of Jesus

Is obedience earning salvation in your eyes? If yes, Jesus Himself taught it.
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We obey because we are saved and because he loved us and saved us we love him
if we obey to maintain salvation you are trying to earn salvation. Period!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#569
#569
Enxu said:
What about loving one another? Does love require nothing from you, only belief?

The words of Jesus are many, and includes commands on how to pray, how to give to the poor, commands to deny ourselves take up our crosses and follow Him. Are these commands obeyed just by believing?
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We love because he loved us

Eternal life and forgiveness of sins based on gods love comes first
 
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Enxu

Active member
#570
Jan 13, 2020
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#570
eternally-gratefull said:
If you have to do what is required then your earning salvation
to think otherwise is well. I think you know what it is.
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Tell that to James who wrote faith without works is dead. In fact, he had a very sound reply to refute you. Show him your faith without works, he will show his faith by his works.
 
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Enxu

Active member
#571
Jan 13, 2020
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#571
eternally-gratefull said:
We obey because we are saved and because he loved us and saved us we love him
if we obey to maintain salvation you are trying to earn salvation. Period!
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Strawman because I never said we obey to maintain salvation.
 
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Enxu

Active member
#572
Jan 13, 2020
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#572
eternally-gratefull said:
So they left and from that time forward showed how much they lacked faith starting at the riverThe very next day.
and you want me to believe they had true saving faith?

You all can not keep your stories right. You have people who believed one day bur the next day and the rest of their lives having no faith (unbelief) proving by their grumbling

And you wonder why we can’t see things your way
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Their faith did get them saved by God out of slavery and you say that isn’t saving faith. God help you.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#573
#573
Enxu said:
Except eternal life has not yet been given to anyone, so no one is truly saved in that sense yet. It is a future promise at the resurrection for those who remained faithful.
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1 John says otherwise
we have eternal and it’s based in this fact we are empowered to continue to believe

The gift of God is eternal life. You can’t earn it
if your trying to earn it you have rejected it. His will not be mocked
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#574
#574
Enxu said:
Strawman because I never said we obey to maintain salvation.
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You do by your words

If salvation can be lost by definition it must be earned
 
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Enxu

Active member
#575
Jan 13, 2020
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#575
eternally-gratefull said:
1 John says otherwise
we have eternal and it’s based in this fact we are empowered to continue to believe

The gift of God is eternal life. You can’t earn it
if your trying to earn it you have rejected it. His will not be mocked
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So you are immortal now? You can’t even discern reality. Goodness.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#576
#576
Enxu said:
Their faith did get them saved by God out of slavery and you say that isn’t saving faith. God help you.
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Whatever
talk about easy believing. You just proved it
their faith which had no works saved them
James said your wrong
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#578
#578
Enxu said:
So you are immortal now? You can’t even discern reality. Goodness.
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Spiritual Life dude

passed from death to life. We who were dead are made alive. That life is eternal life. As Jesus said in John 6 we will never die

No one has been promised eternal physical life that’s twisting gods word
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#579
#579
Enxu said:
Strawman again. There is no link between losing salvation and earning it. Carry on.
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Lol
whatever
yeah carry on. Good luck in your quest to earn Gods Grace
 
Hazelelponi

Hazelelponi

Well-known member
#580
Jul 8, 2019
609
397
63
USA
#580
Enxu said:
Strawman because I never said we obey to maintain salvation.
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Saying obey, obey doesn't seem to share the Gospel.

I mean, we All have areas we need to work on. God shows me all the time areas where I lack perfection, I assume I'll be working on various things until the day I die..

I overcome in one area, and then the Holy Spirit shows me another area I need to gain victory, or gain more victory.

If we are beating the obey drums are we working at doing what God wants us to do?

The Gospel isn't a laundry list of to-do items, it's a message of reconciliation of God to man. It is God who takes us and shapes us and molds us into the people we are meant to be..
 
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