Any Post or Non-Tribbers in Here?
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Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Gotcha, I thought we made clear this isn't the Great tribulation of the last 3.5 years.
This is as also translated a persecution event where that church experienced 10 days in prison.
Gotcha, I thought we made clear this isn't the Great tribulation of the last 3.5 years.
This is as also translated a persecution event where that church experienced 10 days in prison.
L
I'm all for advice, as long as it's good advice.
The "blah, blah, blah" was in relation to the common LIE that is being taught by others.
It has nothing at all to do with me being arrogant.
As far as my "are you ready?" question is concerned, experience (like over the last 33+ years) has shown me that some people aren't.
In other words, it's hard for them to recognize that they've been deceived for so long.
Anyhow, out of all the truths that I shared (and they are all truths), it's somewhat disheartening that that's all that you had to comment on.
Incidentally, I had a rather long encounter with a "Christian" movie producer a while back.
He is the one who produced the heretical nonsense "Before the Wrath" which is based upon a book about this alleged "traditional Jewish wedding".
I offered him scripture after scripture after scripture to refute this nonsense, and what was his response?
He not only never even attempted to refute anything that I shared with him and his followers on his page, but he instead eventually deleted all of my posts, blocked me, and continued to produce and sell a movie which will potentially deceive thousands if not millions of people.
Is that a small matter to you?
It's not a small matter to me because I care enough about my fellow man to intervene in order that he is not deceived.
Furthermore, I also contacted Kevin Sorbo about this whole matter, seeing how he was asked to narrate the farce.
I don't know if he ever read any of my pleas for him not to do so or not, but he did ultimately narrate the deceptive charade.
Again, shouldn't I care about such things?
Do you care enough about your fellow man to tell them the truth?
The "blah, blah, blah" was in relation to the common LIE that is being taught by others.
It has nothing at all to do with me being arrogant.
As far as my "are you ready?" question is concerned, experience (like over the last 33+ years) has shown me that some people aren't.
In other words, it's hard for them to recognize that they've been deceived for so long.
Anyhow, out of all the truths that I shared (and they are all truths), it's somewhat disheartening that that's all that you had to comment on.
Incidentally, I had a rather long encounter with a "Christian" movie producer a while back.
He is the one who produced the heretical nonsense "Before the Wrath" which is based upon a book about this alleged "traditional Jewish wedding".
I offered him scripture after scripture after scripture to refute this nonsense, and what was his response?
He not only never even attempted to refute anything that I shared with him and his followers on his page, but he instead eventually deleted all of my posts, blocked me, and continued to produce and sell a movie which will potentially deceive thousands if not millions of people.
Is that a small matter to you?
It's not a small matter to me because I care enough about my fellow man to intervene in order that he is not deceived.
Furthermore, I also contacted Kevin Sorbo about this whole matter, seeing how he was asked to narrate the farce.
I don't know if he ever read any of my pleas for him not to do so or not, but he did ultimately narrate the deceptive charade.
Again, shouldn't I care about such things?
Do you care enough about your fellow man to tell them the truth?
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It's definitely 3.5 years, not 7 years. "Time, times and half a time” and any of its variants are all referring to the SAME time period. It was mentioned five times in Revelation, by no means does that add up to 17.5 years. It's just 3.5 years. The correct model for that is the days of Elijah, which lasted 3.5 years (Luke 4:25); also, since Jesus's ministry lasted 3.5 years, so will the Antichrist's "ministry" as the antithesis of Jesus's ministry.
Although 10 day period is not mentioned anywhere, it's referring to the 10 days of the Feast of Trumpet from Tishri 1 to the Day of Atonement, which is Tishri 10. It's common belief that Jesus will fulfill the three fall feasts in His second coming. "No one knows the day or the hour" is one of the most misinterpreted and abused phrase out of the entire bible, that was actually a subtle reference of the Feast of Trumpet, which was literally dubbed "the Feast no one knows the day or the hour" by the rabbis, based on their experience that the day or the hour depended on the sighting of NEW MOON. Before this sighting there could be one or two nights with a totally moonless or cloudy sky, the length of Elul the previous month was flexible, this feast just can't be pinned on the calendar. And since in the last days the sky will be totally darkened, there would be no clue to tell when it's the time.
Although 10 day period is not mentioned anywhere, it's referring to the 10 days of the Feast of Trumpet from Tishri 1 to the Day of Atonement, which is Tishri 10. It's common belief that Jesus will fulfill the three fall feasts in His second coming. "No one knows the day or the hour" is one of the most misinterpreted and abused phrase out of the entire bible, that was actually a subtle reference of the Feast of Trumpet, which was literally dubbed "the Feast no one knows the day or the hour" by the rabbis, based on their experience that the day or the hour depended on the sighting of NEW MOON. Before this sighting there could be one or two nights with a totally moonless or cloudy sky, the length of Elul the previous month was flexible, this feast just can't be pinned on the calendar. And since in the last days the sky will be totally darkened, there would be no clue to tell when it's the time.
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I bet Gods word can convince you to at least consider what he’s saying this is what Jesus explained to his disciples
“And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
…Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”
Matthew 24:4-5, 9-13 KJV
“Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Behold, I have told you before.”
Matthew 24:23-25 KJV
Do you see how he is actually preparing them ahead of time to endorse through the tribulation and stand strong tonthe end ? It’s why his apostles taught things like this they were preaching the same gospel
“And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch, confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.”
Acts 14:21-22 KJV
Jesus explained in the gospel that just as he endured through trial and tribulation while he was in this world , so his disciples who lived according to the faith would endure many rejections and tribulations of many kinds
through history tribulation continues on every year there are thousands of martyrs killed in terrible ways. Even in the Old Testament Gods prophets were put through the fore of the worlds persecutions.
the last generation on earth will
Have a church still that believes , and they will be caught up together with the lord and those who went before
this world is a tribulation in many ways both spiritual and physical
For a born again believer in Christ because we don’t belong to this world
“And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.”
1 John 5:19
that’s why Christians face persecution and tribulation like the early church did the world is filled with evil and wickedness and this guy is trying to break our faith through tribulation and persecution always
“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
1 Peter 5:8-9 KJV
We aren’t always going to face the tribulations the early church did bekng slaughtered and out to death in such horrible ways under Nero , but there have always been breakouts of tribulations since then against Christians throughout the world
right now in North Korea Christians are in slave and internment camps where they are starved and used for slave labor , improsoned jist for having scriptire in thier homes
consider how Christians are treated in Muslim majority countries , or in places like China or Afghanistan and it’s not hard to see terrible things Happening to Christians and they aren’t spared from the earthly trials but they are given faith to endorse through it and be saved into the lords kingdom eternal our true home
I hope this helps you at least consider the possibility , if not that’s okay belief about when the raptire is is t a doctrine. Let of us Will ever experience it’s only for the final generation when this happens at the end when the lord returns
“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 KJV
We should look to eternal Life remember every person who’s believes in the pre tribulation rapture before now , hasn’t experienced it but they lived thier lives and went through the trials and whatever persecutions they endured many were killed for their faith but that’s okay because they are now with Jesus in thier eternal Home even though they were never “raptured” out of trials
many terrible tribulations have happened over the past two thousand years I’m sure Many times they were expecting to be rapture out of it , but we should be ready to stand form when trials and whatever tribulation finds us in the world and. Or let go of oir faith in the very worst moments but instead endure like Jesus taught looking to heaven rather than earth
“And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
…Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.”
Matthew 24:4-5, 9-13 KJV
“Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Behold, I have told you before.”
Matthew 24:23-25 KJV
Do you see how he is actually preparing them ahead of time to endorse through the tribulation and stand strong tonthe end ? It’s why his apostles taught things like this they were preaching the same gospel
“And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch, confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.”
Acts 14:21-22 KJV
Jesus explained in the gospel that just as he endured through trial and tribulation while he was in this world , so his disciples who lived according to the faith would endure many rejections and tribulations of many kinds
through history tribulation continues on every year there are thousands of martyrs killed in terrible ways. Even in the Old Testament Gods prophets were put through the fore of the worlds persecutions.
the last generation on earth will
Have a church still that believes , and they will be caught up together with the lord and those who went before
this world is a tribulation in many ways both spiritual and physical
For a born again believer in Christ because we don’t belong to this world
“And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.”
1 John 5:19
that’s why Christians face persecution and tribulation like the early church did the world is filled with evil and wickedness and this guy is trying to break our faith through tribulation and persecution always
“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
1 Peter 5:8-9 KJV
We aren’t always going to face the tribulations the early church did bekng slaughtered and out to death in such horrible ways under Nero , but there have always been breakouts of tribulations since then against Christians throughout the world
right now in North Korea Christians are in slave and internment camps where they are starved and used for slave labor , improsoned jist for having scriptire in thier homes
consider how Christians are treated in Muslim majority countries , or in places like China or Afghanistan and it’s not hard to see terrible things Happening to Christians and they aren’t spared from the earthly trials but they are given faith to endorse through it and be saved into the lords kingdom eternal our true home
I hope this helps you at least consider the possibility , if not that’s okay belief about when the raptire is is t a doctrine. Let of us Will ever experience it’s only for the final generation when this happens at the end when the lord returns
“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 KJV
We should look to eternal Life remember every person who’s believes in the pre tribulation rapture before now , hasn’t experienced it but they lived thier lives and went through the trials and whatever persecutions they endured many were killed for their faith but that’s okay because they are now with Jesus in thier eternal Home even though they were never “raptured” out of trials
many terrible tribulations have happened over the past two thousand years I’m sure Many times they were expecting to be rapture out of it , but we should be ready to stand form when trials and whatever tribulation finds us in the world and. Or let go of oir faith in the very worst moments but instead endure like Jesus taught looking to heaven rather than earth
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There are indeed two stages, not three, but you get the gist, we are Raptured Pre Trib, then Jesus shows up to start the Kingdom Age in Israel for 1000 years, and at that time the Martyred Saints of the 70th week will be raised, they alone (Rev. 20:4) will live and reign on earth with Jesus for the 1000 years says Rev. 20:4. So, its a Pre trib Rapture/Resurrection and a Post Jesus Resurrection, but he also Harvests the Jews and the (who are the 144,000, nowhere in the bible does not say they preach and save people, that is the wildest stuff tat EVERYONE REPEATSS but it is not true). The 144,000 and TH-he Woman are both stand ins for Israel, as in the Woman = the Gen 37:9 passage, and the 144,000 means the same thing as the 7000 God stated He had saved unto Himself, its a number with a meaning, times a number with a meaning, which multiplies the MEANING as of Gid is shouting this is ALL Israel [who repent]
7 is divine completion, 10 is completion, thus 7 x 10 x 10 x 10 = 7000 or ALL Israel.
12 is Fulness and 10 completion, thus 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 = 144,000 or AL Israel.
God is not choosing any perfect number, that would be Calvinism. God is not going to give out Hs plans in full, he's just telling us it ALL Israel who repent via numbers. The 10 Commandments stand fir all God's Laws. The 10 Plagues, in Rev. 2:10 the Smyrna Church was to have tribulation 10 days, which meant for the complete Church Age (Muslim territory for 1200-1400 years now). We have the 10 Kings and 10 toes in Daniel which simply means ALL Europe, its the E.U. and there are 25-27 nations (who knows what the UK is really doing). In Rev. 5 we see the 7 eyes and 7 spirits, God sees all and is everywhere. The 7 Churches represent all of the Church Age etc. etc. etc.
Those 144,000 are simply Israel fleeing Judea at the AoD just before the Trumpet Judgments (God's Wrath Falls) in the middle of the week. That is why the 7th Seal is over in Rev. 8 and why God says HOLD UP the four winds (Judgments) until the 144,000 are sealed (they have the holy spirit and are protected in the Petra/Bozrah area. Those "144,000" need to be protected just like the Woman in Rev. 18 because they are the fleeing Jews who repented.
Zechariah 13:8-9 says 1/3 will repent and that 2/3 will be cut-off, then in the very next verse, in Zechariah 14:1 we see the Day of the Lord ARRIVES, Israel is THEN conquered in verse 2 and then in verses 3-4 onward Jesus arrives at the 2nd coming to defeat the Beast an his minions.
Now, you have a mission, go find where they preach, ANYWHERE, you will be surprised, its just a legend. In Rev. 14 you will see an Angel is called to preach the gospel unto the whole world.
P.S. If you are saying Jesus was the #1 Resurrection I understand. I was speaking about at the VERY END of time.
7 is divine completion, 10 is completion, thus 7 x 10 x 10 x 10 = 7000 or ALL Israel.
12 is Fulness and 10 completion, thus 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 = 144,000 or AL Israel.
God is not choosing any perfect number, that would be Calvinism. God is not going to give out Hs plans in full, he's just telling us it ALL Israel who repent via numbers. The 10 Commandments stand fir all God's Laws. The 10 Plagues, in Rev. 2:10 the Smyrna Church was to have tribulation 10 days, which meant for the complete Church Age (Muslim territory for 1200-1400 years now). We have the 10 Kings and 10 toes in Daniel which simply means ALL Europe, its the E.U. and there are 25-27 nations (who knows what the UK is really doing). In Rev. 5 we see the 7 eyes and 7 spirits, God sees all and is everywhere. The 7 Churches represent all of the Church Age etc. etc. etc.
Those 144,000 are simply Israel fleeing Judea at the AoD just before the Trumpet Judgments (God's Wrath Falls) in the middle of the week. That is why the 7th Seal is over in Rev. 8 and why God says HOLD UP the four winds (Judgments) until the 144,000 are sealed (they have the holy spirit and are protected in the Petra/Bozrah area. Those "144,000" need to be protected just like the Woman in Rev. 18 because they are the fleeing Jews who repented.
Zechariah 13:8-9 says 1/3 will repent and that 2/3 will be cut-off, then in the very next verse, in Zechariah 14:1 we see the Day of the Lord ARRIVES, Israel is THEN conquered in verse 2 and then in verses 3-4 onward Jesus arrives at the 2nd coming to defeat the Beast an his minions.
Now, you have a mission, go find where they preach, ANYWHERE, you will be surprised, its just a legend. In Rev. 14 you will see an Angel is called to preach the gospel unto the whole world.
P.S. If you are saying Jesus was the #1 Resurrection I understand. I was speaking about at the VERY END of time.
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I like John also. TRY THIS: it is an unknown author, but I have used it for years.
The Jewish Wedding Pattern https://www.luke810.com/wedpatt.htm
The Jewish Wedding Pattern https://www.luke810.com/wedpatt.htm
THINK....its unto the Church of Smyrna, so that a Church Age Tribulation, ole EW will conflate the issues. The 10 days = Tribulation for the complete (10 represents completion) Church Age. Why are we speaking about the 70th week when the Church will nit be here? Because THEY do not understand what we u understand lol. So, they are able, at times, to conflate the issues unto us and get us off track, if we don't pay attention. All because you see to them its perfectly logical, they think (in error) that the Church goes through the 70th week, but we will be sipping lemonade in Heaven.
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Hello Lori, welcome to the forum.
You are correct sister.
Those numbers were always an erroneous understanding. In Matt. 24:4-31 we get about 12 "SIGNS" about Jesus Second Coming, not the Rapture, so when we see verses 32-35 speak about the Fig trees fruit and the Disciples (Jews) were told they will know when Summer is near by the fruits ripeness, that had nothing to do with Israel's rebirth, its al about Jesus' Second Coming, thus it happens 7 years after the rapture, get where I am going? So, since most Jews will not be saved at the Rapture this message was unto the Jewish Nation at the end, and what was the very last clue? The Sun and Moon goes Dark in Matt. 24:29-30, so the LAST SIGN is the Rev. 8 Asteroid that strikes the earth and turns the light is diminished by 1/3 from al the smoke of the burning trees.
Thus when Jesus says THIS GENERATION, he is speaking about the Generation who saw all of those signs, meaning the LAST SIGN has to be witnesses by the generation he was speaking of, so THAT GENERATION has to be living during the 70th week. So, we are told about ALL the signs then he says LIKEWISE !!
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things(all 12 signs as in ALL), know that it is near, even at the doors.(Second Coming)
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
What Generation? The ONE that sees ALL of thee things, and thus the last sign is the Sun and Moon going dark. It was never about Israel being reborn, tat was a misunderstanding gone wrong. I said this years ago, just like I warned everyone about the bogus Rev. 17 sign , God doesn't deal in Astrology.
I know we are, in a vision in 1986, Jesus before I was shown Jimmy Swaggart fall in another vision, I was running wit some small kids from some evil people, I hid behind a bush, then I heard this loud BOOMING voice from Heaven simply say, "The Man of Sin is Here".
So, the time is at hand. I think we can understand THE SEASON, but not the Day nor Hour. I see the rapture as the Fall of 2025, because I see Apophis as the Day of the Lord (April 13, 2029, thus if we are going pre trib that has to be by the fall of 2025.
God Bless.
You are correct sister.
Those numbers were always an erroneous understanding. In Matt. 24:4-31 we get about 12 "SIGNS" about Jesus Second Coming, not the Rapture, so when we see verses 32-35 speak about the Fig trees fruit and the Disciples (Jews) were told they will know when Summer is near by the fruits ripeness, that had nothing to do with Israel's rebirth, its al about Jesus' Second Coming, thus it happens 7 years after the rapture, get where I am going? So, since most Jews will not be saved at the Rapture this message was unto the Jewish Nation at the end, and what was the very last clue? The Sun and Moon goes Dark in Matt. 24:29-30, so the LAST SIGN is the Rev. 8 Asteroid that strikes the earth and turns the light is diminished by 1/3 from al the smoke of the burning trees.
Thus when Jesus says THIS GENERATION, he is speaking about the Generation who saw all of those signs, meaning the LAST SIGN has to be witnesses by the generation he was speaking of, so THAT GENERATION has to be living during the 70th week. So, we are told about ALL the signs then he says LIKEWISE !!
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things(all 12 signs as in ALL), know that it is near, even at the doors.(Second Coming)
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
What Generation? The ONE that sees ALL of thee things, and thus the last sign is the Sun and Moon going dark. It was never about Israel being reborn, tat was a misunderstanding gone wrong. I said this years ago, just like I warned everyone about the bogus Rev. 17 sign , God doesn't deal in Astrology.
I know we are, in a vision in 1986, Jesus before I was shown Jimmy Swaggart fall in another vision, I was running wit some small kids from some evil people, I hid behind a bush, then I heard this loud BOOMING voice from Heaven simply say, "The Man of Sin is Here".
So, the time is at hand. I think we can understand THE SEASON, but not the Day nor Hour. I see the rapture as the Fall of 2025, because I see Apophis as the Day of the Lord (April 13, 2029, thus if we are going pre trib that has to be by the fall of 2025.
God Bless.
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The Pretribulation Resurrection/Rapture is exactly what the Bible teaches. So do not be swayed or deceived. Too many Christians have not seen that the Resurrection of the Church and the Rapture of the Church take place at the same time, and "in the twinkling of an eye". This is similar to the rapture of Enoch (the seventh from Adam). He was on earth at one moment. The next moment he was absent.
The Tribulation is a very specific period of time which corresponds to the reign of the Antichrist. It is also called "the time of Jacob's trouble" meaning that it is designed for unbelieving Jews, not redeemed Christians (who are not appointed to wrath): And at that time shall Michael [the Archangel] stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people [the Jews]: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (Dan 12:1) We see Michael in Revelation 12. Revelation 11-13 is all about the reign of the Antichrist (the Beast).
The Tribulation is a very specific period of time which corresponds to the reign of the Antichrist. It is also called "the time of Jacob's trouble" meaning that it is designed for unbelieving Jews, not redeemed Christians (who are not appointed to wrath): And at that time shall Michael [the Archangel] stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people [the Jews]: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (Dan 12:1) We see Michael in Revelation 12. Revelation 11-13 is all about the reign of the Antichrist (the Beast).
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Enoch was no model for the "rapture". When Enoch was "taken", that was about FIVE HUNDRED YEARS before the Flood. When Jesus using the "days of Noah" as an example, there was no mention of Enoch, God delivered His people with the Ark, both Noah and his families; and after the Flood they went back to rebuild civilization, and Christ and His saints will do the same in the millennial kingdom. Nowhere in the bible teaches that the church will go to heaven in that way.
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Remember what happened with Israel in Egypt? The plagues came on Egypt, very similar plagues to the ones mentioned in the book of revelation, yet Israel was protected. The same thing will happen in the future, God has sniper aim, don't you worry. For example:
Rev 16:2 The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly, festering sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image.
Reason we will be here is cause the favorite rapture passage 1 Thess 4:15-16 says so, it says this will happen at the COMING of the Lord. Me personally I believe in only ONE coming, parousia, presence, not two comings. If we confuse ourselves into multiple returns, we are end up with a new testament that makes very little sense as you have to always think about which "parousia, coming" is being spoken of.
More than that, this return of Jesus happens after the tribulation of those days:
Matthew 24-29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Just like in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, the famous rapture passage, you have Jesus COMING, trumpet sounding, and the elect being gathered. Third witness as to the timing of the gathering being post-trib:
2 Thessalonians 1:6-8
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
There we have it again, same time as the unrighteous get flaming fire, we get rest as Jesus is revealed from heaven with the angels, taking vengeance on the ungodly. This wrath is the one we are not subject to, "flaming fire, taking vengeance on them that know not God"
One more final witness on the timing of this gathering is 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Further in this same chapter we can see that this coming is after the tribulation, not before, because this son of perdition is destroyed "At His coming" in verse 8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Rev 16:2 The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly, festering sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image.
Reason we will be here is cause the favorite rapture passage 1 Thess 4:15-16 says so, it says this will happen at the COMING of the Lord. Me personally I believe in only ONE coming, parousia, presence, not two comings. If we confuse ourselves into multiple returns, we are end up with a new testament that makes very little sense as you have to always think about which "parousia, coming" is being spoken of.
More than that, this return of Jesus happens after the tribulation of those days:
Matthew 24-29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Just like in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16, the famous rapture passage, you have Jesus COMING, trumpet sounding, and the elect being gathered. Third witness as to the timing of the gathering being post-trib:
2 Thessalonians 1:6-8
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
There we have it again, same time as the unrighteous get flaming fire, we get rest as Jesus is revealed from heaven with the angels, taking vengeance on the ungodly. This wrath is the one we are not subject to, "flaming fire, taking vengeance on them that know not God"
One more final witness on the timing of this gathering is 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Further in this same chapter we can see that this coming is after the tribulation, not before, because this son of perdition is destroyed "At His coming" in verse 8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
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Start with Truth and you will walk in Truth and in the end you will rise in Truth
Your starting Point is JESUS - His words = “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Wisdom = JESUS was the First Post-Tribber to Rise from the Dead
Wisdom = pre-trib rapture never came out of the Mouth of God = it cannot be found anywhere in scripture.
Knowledge = "I have spoken these things to you so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation.
But take courage; I have overcome the world." John 16:33
Your starting Point is JESUS - His words = “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Wisdom = JESUS was the First Post-Tribber to Rise from the Dead
Wisdom = pre-trib rapture never came out of the Mouth of God = it cannot be found anywhere in scripture.
Knowledge = "I have spoken these things to you so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation.
But take courage; I have overcome the world." John 16:33
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