Any Post or Non-Tribbers in Here?
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When Acts 3:21 says [Peter speaking to "ye men of Israel" per v.12],
"whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from the age"
... what YOU are saying is that no one could understand what GOD SPOKE via the OT prophets (coz the NT wasn't yet written, by means of which one could "properly interpret" WHAT GOD HAD SPOKEN...)
IOW, what "GOD SPOKE BY the mouth of His holy prophets" [i.e the OT WRITINGS] was not intelligible... until the NT was written.
Is THAT WHAT you mean to say??
...and so then, in view of the verse (Acts 3:21) saying, "UNTIL the times of restoration OF ALL THINGS OF WHICH GOD SPOKE BY..." ... this refers to WHAT?!
"whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from the age"
... what YOU are saying is that no one could understand what GOD SPOKE via the OT prophets (coz the NT wasn't yet written, by means of which one could "properly interpret" WHAT GOD HAD SPOKEN...)
IOW, what "GOD SPOKE BY the mouth of His holy prophets" [i.e the OT WRITINGS] was not intelligible... until the NT was written.
Is THAT WHAT you mean to say??
...and so then, in view of the verse (Acts 3:21) saying, "UNTIL the times of restoration OF ALL THINGS OF WHICH GOD SPOKE BY..." ... this refers to WHAT?!
No Brother, this is not what i am saying at all - please be careful not to add to my words more then what i said.
God speaks for Himself and He has done this thru His Prophets, His SON and finally the Apostles.
Now what did DavidTree say again:
"Context is a tool and necessary but it is not an end-all/be-all unto Scripture nor can it speak for God."
Let's break this down.
A.) Context is a tool and necessary = Context is a necessary tool for study in the scriptures = no brainer (pun here)
B.) Context is not an end all to understanding scripture =
Jesus being aware of their discussion, asked them: “Why are you talking about having no bread? Do you still not see or understand? Are your hearts hardened?
C.) Context, of and by itself cannot speak for God for these reasons as follows:
1. these words I speak to you, they are Spirit and they are Life.
2. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth.
3. For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
God speaks for Himself and He has done this thru His Prophets, His SON and finally the Apostles.
Now what did DavidTree say again:
"Context is a tool and necessary but it is not an end-all/be-all unto Scripture nor can it speak for God."
Let's break this down.
A.) Context is a tool and necessary = Context is a necessary tool for study in the scriptures = no brainer (pun here)
B.) Context is not an end all to understanding scripture =
Jesus being aware of their discussion, asked them: “Why are you talking about having no bread? Do you still not see or understand? Are your hearts hardened?
C.) Context, of and by itself cannot speak for God for these reasons as follows:
1. these words I speak to you, they are Spirit and they are Life.
2. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth.
3. For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
[continuing from my previous two posts...]
The phrase "his [or my] servants the prophets" is used 7x (outside of Rev10:7):
1) 2Ki 17:23 -
Until the LORD removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day.
2) 2Ki 21:10,[11-12] -
And the LORD spake by his servants the prophets, saying,
11 Because Manasseh king of Judah hath done these abominations, and hath done wickedly above all that the Amorites did, which were before him, and hath made Judah also to sin with his idols:
12 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon Jerusalem and Judah, that whosoever heareth of it, both his ears shall tingle.
3) 2Ki 24:2 -
And the LORD sent against him bands of the Chaldees, and bands of the Syrians, and bands of the Moabites, and bands of the children of Ammon, and sent them against Judah to destroy it, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake by his servants the prophets.
4) Jer 25:4 -
And the LORD hath sent unto you all his servants the prophets, rising early and sending them; but ye have not hearkened, nor inclined your ear to hear.
5) Jer 35:15 -
I have sent also unto you all my servants the prophets, rising up early and sending them, saying, Return ye now every man from his evil way, and amend your doings, and go not after other gods to serve them, and ye shall dwell in the land which I have given to you and to your fathers: but ye have not inclined your ear, nor hearkened unto me.
6) Dan 9:10 -
Neither have we obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets.
7) Amo 3:7 -
Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
The phrase "his [or my] servants the prophets" is used 7x (outside of Rev10:7):
1) 2Ki 17:23 -
Until the LORD removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day.
2) 2Ki 21:10,[11-12] -
And the LORD spake by his servants the prophets, saying,
11 Because Manasseh king of Judah hath done these abominations, and hath done wickedly above all that the Amorites did, which were before him, and hath made Judah also to sin with his idols:
12 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon Jerusalem and Judah, that whosoever heareth of it, both his ears shall tingle.
3) 2Ki 24:2 -
And the LORD sent against him bands of the Chaldees, and bands of the Syrians, and bands of the Moabites, and bands of the children of Ammon, and sent them against Judah to destroy it, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake by his servants the prophets.
4) Jer 25:4 -
And the LORD hath sent unto you all his servants the prophets, rising early and sending them; but ye have not hearkened, nor inclined your ear to hear.
5) Jer 35:15 -
I have sent also unto you all my servants the prophets, rising up early and sending them, saying, Return ye now every man from his evil way, and amend your doings, and go not after other gods to serve them, and ye shall dwell in the land which I have given to you and to your fathers: but ye have not inclined your ear, nor hearkened unto me.
6) Dan 9:10 -
Neither have we obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets.
7) Amo 3:7 -
Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
I'm not suggesting that there was never "further revelation"... nor that there were some things they didn't fully understand.
As I've stated in past posts, whereas it is said of Jesus (and everyone else), in / during His earthly ministry, "but of that day and hour KNOWETH [perfect indicative] NO MAN"... NOT EVEN JESUS (Matt24:36 and its parallels), is NO LONGER APPLICABLE *because* of His having subsequently been provided "FURTHER INFORMATION" on that very Subject, and disclosed this in the LATER [meaning, later than 32ad end of His earthly ministry, after which He rose from the dead, ascended, and was exalted], [in 95ad] "[The] Revelation of Jesus Christ WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [unto Jesus] TO SHEW UNTO..." in which "further information" was disclosed ON THAT SUBJECT (but NOT that "the SUBJECT" itself was changed / morphed into something OTHER than what had already been prophesied, see--This is the difference, as I see it.)
As I've stated in past posts, whereas it is said of Jesus (and everyone else), in / during His earthly ministry, "but of that day and hour KNOWETH [perfect indicative] NO MAN"... NOT EVEN JESUS (Matt24:36 and its parallels), is NO LONGER APPLICABLE *because* of His having subsequently been provided "FURTHER INFORMATION" on that very Subject, and disclosed this in the LATER [meaning, later than 32ad end of His earthly ministry, after which He rose from the dead, ascended, and was exalted], [in 95ad] "[The] Revelation of Jesus Christ WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM [unto Jesus] TO SHEW UNTO..." in which "further information" was disclosed ON THAT SUBJECT (but NOT that "the SUBJECT" itself was changed / morphed into something OTHER than what had already been prophesied, see--This is the difference, as I see it.)
And the "further revelation" in many cases is a disambiguation of previously stated promises and prophecies. Galatians 3 is a very strong example of this by "seed" being singular where it could have been misunderstood as a plurality.
You can't just ignore Galatians 3 because you have a preferred interpretation of seed that you feel "should" be the "intuitive" interpretation. But that is seemingly the nature of your complaint, that you would like to follow your own interpretation of the OT and ignore what the NT says.
NT brings the correct context to the prophesies and promises. If a verse in the OT says "Jerusalem" in a prophesy, you need to look through the NT to see what that means, not just assume blindly assume a context.
Nowhere in scripture does it say "and these promises will be immediately understood at the time they are said by everyone that interprets them". It is the reason in Romans 9 we see reassuring lines from Paul that basically state "It's not that God lied". These lines were included to specifically say "No, many followers of the OT misunderstand what was said... and here's what the real meaning is"
Even Christ chastises the Pharisees for following their erroneous interpretation of law rather than what was truly meant by law. And now that you have the New Testament, you have the opportunity to understand with greater clarity what was meant by OT prophecies and promises.
The subject never changed, it was the incorrect contexts drawn from the subject that were done away with. If you don't believe that, you don't believe NT scripture.
You can't just ignore Galatians 3 because you have a preferred interpretation of seed that you feel "should" be the "intuitive" interpretation. But that is seemingly the nature of your complaint, that you would like to follow your own interpretation of the OT and ignore what the NT says.
NT brings the correct context to the prophesies and promises. If a verse in the OT says "Jerusalem" in a prophesy, you need to look through the NT to see what that means, not just assume blindly assume a context.
Nowhere in scripture does it say "and these promises will be immediately understood at the time they are said by everyone that interprets them". It is the reason in Romans 9 we see reassuring lines from Paul that basically state "It's not that God lied". These lines were included to specifically say "No, many followers of the OT misunderstand what was said... and here's what the real meaning is"
Even Christ chastises the Pharisees for following their erroneous interpretation of law rather than what was truly meant by law. And now that you have the New Testament, you have the opportunity to understand with greater clarity what was meant by OT prophecies and promises.
The subject never changed, it was the incorrect contexts drawn from the subject that were done away with. If you don't believe that, you don't believe NT scripture.
Why don't we get back to what the actual content of the video is covering, instead of what you think / thought it was covering. 
No one is disputing this.
The question is, was it [the OT info] UNDERSTANDABLE (before the NT was written to EXPLAIN it, as some suggest)?
No OT persons could understand the Word of God... till then??
No one is disputing this.
The question is, was it [the OT info] UNDERSTANDABLE (before the NT was written to EXPLAIN it, as some suggest)?
No OT persons could understand the Word of God... till then??
AGREE = "further information" was disclosed ON THAT SUBJECT (but NOT that "the SUBJECT" itself was changed / morphed into something OTHER than what had already been prophesied,
Not knowing the "day and hour" is still applicable because Revelation does not REVEAL the literal day and hour.
Unless you can point to the literal day and hour in Revelation whereby Christ appears in the clouds on earths' atmosphere.
Not knowing the "day and hour" is still applicable because Revelation does not REVEAL the literal day and hour.
Unless you can point to the literal day and hour in Revelation whereby Christ appears in the clouds on earths' atmosphere.
Why don't we get back to what the actual content of the video is covering, instead of what you think / thought it was covering.
No one is disputing this.
The question is, was it [the OT info] UNDERSTANDABLE (before the NT was written to EXPLAIN it, as some suggest)?
No one is disputing this.
The question is, was it [the OT info] UNDERSTANDABLE (before the NT was written to EXPLAIN it, as some suggest)?
Did God speak in an understandable measure at our level = Yes
Did HE also speak in prophetic utterances that had more then one fulfillment = YES
Are there prophecy in scripture still unkown and yet to be fulfilled, even though we can read it, word for word = YES
Relax, i will watch the video because i appreciate you Brother.
Throughout the entire Book of Revelation there are NUMEROUS time-stamps and timing-indicators (some more readily apparent than others), so that one can actually lay out a calendar over the "outline [/ framework ]" provided therein (coupled with its connecting OT passages) and come to see this very thing. Yes, I do believe so!
(I'm not going to go into all that here in this thread, however. )
[example: Rev8:1-5 is speaking of things associated only with the Day of Atonement... a certain day on a calendar (i.e. a time-stamp)]
(I'm not going to go into all that here in this thread, however.
)[example: Rev8:1-5 is speaking of things associated only with the Day of Atonement... a certain day on a calendar (i.e. a time-stamp)]
And because of Gal 3, it would be invalid to interpret the seed of the promises to be anyone other than Christ (and those in Christ). This clashes with an OT-only approach that would still render "seed" to mean anything they want it to mean. The more that is said, the more than the potential meanings are constrained. That is why it is so important to cross reference against the NT.
Throughout the entire Book of Revelation there are NUMEROUS time-stamps and timing-indicators (some more readily apparent than others), so that one can actually lay out a calendar over the "outline [/ framework ]" provided therein (coupled with its connecting OT passages) and come to see this very thing. Yes, I do believe so!
(I'm not going to go into all that here in this thread, however. )
[example: Rev8:1-5 is speaking of things associated only with the Day of Atonement... a certain day on a calendar (i.e. a time-stamp)]
(I'm not going to go into all that here in this thread, however.
)[example: Rev8:1-5 is speaking of things associated only with the Day of Atonement... a certain day on a calendar (i.e. a time-stamp)]
Love you and the more important element of Revelation is the Letters to the seven churches (and to us) and this:
"They overcame him by the Blood of the Lamb and the word of their Testimony and loved not their lives unto death."
Once we get past that point = we're HOME
It didn't "render 'SEED' to mean anything they want it to mean" though... "SEED {SINGULAR]" meant "SEED [SINGULAR]" in Genesis, and "SEED [PLURAL]" meant "SEED [PLURAL]" in Genesis (i.e. it was understandable as written).
Paul, in Gal3, is covering ONLY the "SEED [SINGULAR]" context, coz that's the Subject he was covering there in Gal3 (he wasn't covering the "SEED [PLURAL]" contexts of Genesis, here in Gal3)
Paul, in Gal3, is covering ONLY the "SEED [SINGULAR]" context, coz that's the Subject he was covering there in Gal3 (he wasn't covering the "SEED [PLURAL]" contexts of Genesis, here in Gal3)
What I think you are saying is that ALL SAINTS WILL BE KILLED in the future Tribulation period (NONE SURVIVE physically / bodily... ALL *DIE*)... Is this what you mean to convey??
[by the way, I believe Daniel 12:6-7,1 etc (context) is also speaking of the SECOND HALF of the future Tribulation period, and note where v.4 says, "knowledge shall be increased" (note: not merely RANDOM "knowledge" ) and where v.10 says "the WISE WILL UNDERSTAND" (which I believe the context refers to "the WISE [of ISRAEL]")...]
[by the way, I believe Daniel 12:6-7,1 etc (context) is also speaking of the SECOND HALF of the future Tribulation period, and note where v.4 says, "knowledge shall be increased" (note: not merely RANDOM "knowledge"
) and where v.10 says "the WISE WILL UNDERSTAND" (which I believe the context refers to "the WISE [of ISRAEL]")...]