Angels can procreate

[The_Watchers_2017]

You tell us the superiority of the Hebrew then you give us a paraphrase into English so we can understand it, do you see the irony of this? The thing I find unsettling is that its not a literal translation but a paraphrase, its like trying to tell me the message bible is closer to Gods Word than any other translation even though it paraphrases. Im Just having one last whack I will desist from flogging the dead horse now.

Where? I am copy/pasting the actual JPS Torah!

הַנְּפִלִ֞ים הָי֣וּ בָאָ֘רֶץ֮ בַּיָּמִ֣ים הָהֵם֒ וְגַ֣ם אַֽחֲרֵי־כֵ֗ן אֲשֶׁ֨ר יָבֹ֜אוּ בְּנֵ֤י הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־בְּנ֣וֹת הָֽאָדָ֔ם וְיָלְד֖וּ לָהֶ֑ם הֵ֧מָּה הַגִּבֹּרִ֛ים אֲשֶׁ֥ר מֵעוֹלָ֖ם אַנְשֵׁ֥י הַשֵּֽׁם׃ {פ}
It was then, and later too, that the Nephilim appeared on earth—when divine beings cohabited with the human women, who bore them offspring. Such were the heroes of old, the men of renown.

 

[Zandar]

I believe the sons of God were the old generation like Adam and Cain. They looked at the younger daughters of men and took them. The old ones still had the original perfect genes so having children with the youngest generation must have produced powerful offspring. This makes more sense to me than angels mixing with people.

 

[Zandar]

Also, if the children were part divine beings they would not have sin in their hearts so there would have been no need to destroy the world and kill the innocent along with the guilty.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Methinks you've gathered scholars that agree with you rather than listen to all of them and use your god given critical thinking skills.

I did not say they did. But this might shock you. More Messianic Jews, Jews who believe Yeshua is the Messiah, Their Jewish Messiah, believe the Genesis 6 and 12 connect to why Peter and Jude mention Angels in Chains for CHASING after a Strange Kind of Flesh.

Makes me wonder, as more non believing Jews about Jesus come to Accept Jesus, as Their Messiah, will Their views about Genesis 6 and 12 change? The Messianic Jews see how this connects to the future Lineage and Birth of Christ.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Also, if the children were part divine beings they would not have sin in their hearts so there would have been no need to destroy the world and kill the innocent along with the guilty.

Satan is the Ultimate Divine Being and he chose to become Sin and to Oppose God.

Time and Reading the Bible will Educate You one day

 

[Gideon300]

I have heard repeatedly in church that angels cannot procreate. That is not true, according to the bible.

"when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown." Genesis 6:4. It had nothing to do with them being fallen angels. They were able to have children.

What makes you think that they are angels?

 

[Clayman]

Where? I am copy/pasting the actual JPS Torah!

הַנְּפִלִ֞ים הָי֣וּ בָאָ֘רֶץ֮ בַּיָּמִ֣ים הָהֵם֒ וְגַ֣ם אַֽחֲרֵי־כֵ֗ן אֲשֶׁ֨ר יָבֹ֜אוּ בְּנֵ֤י הָֽאֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־בְּנ֣וֹת הָֽאָדָ֔ם וְיָלְד֖וּ לָהֶ֑ם הֵ֧מָּה הַגִּבֹּרִ֛ים אֲשֶׁ֥ר מֵעוֹלָ֖ם אַנְשֵׁ֥י הַשֵּֽׁם׃ {פ}
It was then, and later too, that the Nephilim appeared on earth—when divine beings cohabited with the human women, who bore them offspring. Such were the heroes of old, the men of renown.

Translating from one language to another has problems, there is no perfect version, KJV's included, Those who translated this are fallible yet they chose to paraphrase rather than use a literal meaning here, the problem with paraphrasing is that if your view or understanding is biased then it comes across in the translation, referring to men as divine (or angels?) is not new and still comes from Catholicism today and is blatantly false in my opinion, but the whole issue would not even arise if a literal translation approach was adopted in the first place.

 

[Clayman]

I did not say they did. But this might shock you. More Messianic Jews, Jews who believe Yeshua is the Messiah, Their Jewish Messiah, believe the Genesis 6 and 12 connect to why Peter and Jude mention Angels in Chains for CHASING after a Strange Kind of Flesh.

Makes me wonder, as more non believing Jews about Jesus come to Accept Jesus, as Their Messiah, will Their views about Genesis 6 and 12 change? The Messianic Jews see how this connects to the future Lineage and Birth of Christ.

Ive developed a new rule of thumb that seems to hold true more often than not, Whatever the majority believe, then its generally in error.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Translating from one language to another has problems, there is no perfect version, KJV's included, Those who translated this are fallible yet they chose to paraphrase rather than use a literal meaning here, the problem with paraphrasing is that if your view or understanding is biased then it comes across in the translation, referring to men as divine (or angels?) is not new and still comes from Catholicism today and is blatantly false in my opinion, but the whole issue would not even arise if a literal translation approach was adopted in the first place.

That is my Point.

But here is the real Issue at hand concerning Translations. The Septuagint is the Greek translation of Hebrew, but the Latin Vulgate is a translation of the Septuagint (not the Hebrew), and the English is a Translation of the Latin Vulgate (not the Hebrew) [Erastus Textus Receptus KJV]. So, it's a translation of 2nd and 3rd hand Meanings from Language to Language to Language.

What I am using is Hebrew to English, nothing else. The BEST POSSIBLE Old Testament Translation we could have access to!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Ive developed a new rule of thumb that seems to hold true more often than not, Whatever the majority believe, then its generally in error.

There's more Jews than Messianic Jews, like 95% to 5% so good thing the Messianic Jews believe as I do, because they ARE NOT the MAJORITY!

 

[Magenta]

Anyway, the argument generated by the op is "can angels take on the physical material form
of men..." which carries an underlying implication that, since there are examples of angels
appearing as men, that every angel has this ability and can do so at will even for their own
selfish purposes. There's something about that logic that I don't quite follow even if I'm
not sure what the term for the particular fallacy is. Generalization, I think.

Just saw this now. One of the logical fallacies you couldn't think of the names for
is a non sequitur. Another is the excluded middle, or false dilemma. There may be
others; those are the two I can think of immediately off the top of my head.

 

[JohnB]

What makes you think that they are angels?

"Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. " Genesis 6:1.

The Sons of GOD are not human. "when men began to multiply on the face of the earth" these are humans. After humans started populating the earth, THAN the Sons of GOD got involved.

 

[Mem]

Just saw this now. One of the logical fallacies you couldn't think of the names for
is a non sequitur. Another is the excluded middle, or false dilemma. There may be
others; those are the two I can think of immediately off the top of my head.

Apparently, several are employed. And they'd have to be to drive us so far off track.

 

[Mem]

"Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. " Genesis 6:1.

The Sons of GOD are not human. "when men began to multiply on the face of the earth" these are humans. After humans started populating the earth, THAN the Sons of GOD got involved.

The Philistines were not a race of giants, and Goliath was a Philistine, and neither were the Canaanites, even tho the 10 spies felt like grasshoppers when they saw them. Since Goliath and his brothers are descendants of Anak, Anak might've been a giant man and so his descendants after him, the Anakim might have been a "race" of giants, but I think a "line" of giants would be more accurately claimed.

 

[notmyown]

Satan is the Ultimate Divine Being

perhaps you'd like to think this over?

 

[CS1]

I am aware of that, but that has nothing to do with her views towards Genesis 6.
It's really odd; there are 4 major Scholars today who are not Christian, with 2 even claiming to be Agnostic/Atheist. This one we're discussing is obviously Yiddish.

I think it matters much because she uses the book of Enoch to establish angels having sex with humans, and the book of Enoch was not written by Enoch. Her understanding of Genesis is based on Enoch and not on the proper exegesis of Genesis chapters 4 -6.

Also, Yiddish is a language mixed with the German dialect with words from Hebrew. And being an atheist clearly would discredit anything they write off to be taken as authoritative.

 

[JohnB]

The Philistines were not a race of giants, and Goliath was a Philistine, and neither were the Canaanites, even tho the 10 spies felt like grasshoppers when they saw them. Since Goliath and his brothers are descendants of Anak, Anak might've been a giant man and so his descendants after him, the Anakim might have been a "race" of giants, but I think a "line" of giants would be more accurately claimed.

Genesis 6 happened before the flood.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

perhaps you'd like to think this over?

Have you ever Read, from HOW God described How He made Satan to be Perfect and full of Wisdom and to be the most powerful of His Creations?
Why did the Arch Angel not say to Satan when disputing over the Bones of Moses, I Rebuke You?
NO, he said, the LORD REBUKE You!
Even Michael, by Creation Standards, was created Lesser than Satan.
However, Michael, has God, the Creator of Both Michael and Satan, as his Master.

Divine Being in the Hebrew means Angelic Being.
Satan, was, the most Adored Angel of them who was given the privilege to walk through the path of Fire before the Sons of God and the Throne of God.

Read Ezekiel, king of Tyre
Read Isaiah
Read Daniel, Prince of Persia witheld the Angel Gabriel. < even AFTER Satan's Fall, he could still OverPower Gabriel for 21 Days!

I just know who My Adversary is. It's not a respect thing. It's the Fact God put All of this Information about Our Number One Enemy so WE Could Know this Entity.

I know who My Enemy is!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I think it matters much because she uses the book of Enoch to establish angels having sex with humans, and the book of Enoch was not written by Enoch. Her understanding of Genesis is based on Enoch and not on the proper exegesis of Genesis chapters 4 -6.

Also, Yiddish is a language mixed with the German dialect with words from Hebrew. And being an atheist clearly would discredit anything they write off to be taken as authoritative.

I used Yiddish to Separate her, but she is not.

You see She is using Enoch, but I also have read why She is doing as you see.

It's a fact between Temple One, Solomon's Temple, the time Space from this Period to up to the 70 AD Destruction of the 2nd Temple, Enoch was considered Inspired to the Jews. And they know the Current Enoch is only some of the true original copies, but the majority was already orally remembered in those days. So, they had the Torah from Moses and few more scrolls of Joshua and others by this time, including Enoch, Jasher, many others. But the Belief in that Genesis 6 and 12 are Angels was Common from Temple 1 to the Destruction of Temple 2. And we know this, because we have 10 places where Jesus quotes Enoch, Paul, Luke, John All quote Enoch, and Peter and Jude even tell us these Angels are in Chains of Darkness for Going after Strange Kind of Flesh, in a similar way, as Sodom did.

She is just showing us how this Belief became entwined through Oral Scripture, and much of it, found its way to Letters that became the Actual Word of God. But this was a Real True Blue Belief of the Ancient Hebrews between 1st and 2nd Temples.

 

[CS1]

I used Yiddish to Separate her, but she is not.

You see She is using Enoch, but I also have read why She is doing as you see.

It's a fact between Temple One, Solomon's Temple, the time Space from this Period to up to the 70 AD Destruction of the 2nd Temple, Enoch was considered Inspired to the Jews. And they know the Current Enoch is only some of the true original copies, but the majority was already orally remembered in those days. So, they had the Torah from Moses and few more scrolls of Joshua and others by this time, including Enoch, Jasher, many others. But the Belief in that Genesis 6 and 12 are Angels was Common from Temple 1 to the Destruction of Temple 2. And we know this, because we have 10 places where Jesus quotes Enoch, Paul, Luke, John All quote Enoch, and Peter and Jude even tell us these Angels are in Chains of Darkness for Going after Strange Kind of Flesh, in a similar way, as Sodom did.

She is just showing us how this Belief became entwined through Oral Scripture, and much of it, found its way to Letters that became the Actual Word of God. But this was a Real True Blue Belief of the Ancient Hebrews between 1st and 2nd Temples.

I have been there and done that. Enoch is not contextual with Gen chapters 4 to 6. No more than Job Chapter 1 is.