And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil
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The context of the verse you quoted was someone named Zaccaheus repenting and it’s God’s will that none should perish but that all should come to repentance. It’s a forgone conclusion that those who don’t repent will perish. Sounds like you are laughing at God now. I assure you, His sense of humor doesn’t favor your direction. You’re laughing alone in a quiet room full of people.
Why do you continue to presume that ONLY the first THREE creatures cast into the LOF will have ECT? There are NO verses that show that ONLY the first 3 will.
You can't find ANY verse that informs us that ONLY the first 3 get eternal torment.
The first 3 should easily inform you that ANYONE and EVERYONE who is cast into the LOF will get the same FATE.
Here's a shock for you: the Bible confirms that those cast into the LOF will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
By the time we get to the GWT, there is no need to repeat what we have already read.
But you insist that just because the Bible doesn't say there isn't pizza in the LOF, you conclude that ONLY the 3 will have ECT and none of the rest. You don't make any sense.
You can't find ANY verse that informs us that ONLY the first 3 get eternal torment.
The first 3 should easily inform you that ANYONE and EVERYONE who is cast into the LOF will get the same FATE.
Here's a shock for you: the Bible confirms that those cast into the LOF will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
By the time we get to the GWT, there is no need to repeat what we have already read.
But you insist that just because the Bible doesn't say there isn't pizza in the LOF, you conclude that ONLY the 3 will have ECT and none of the rest. You don't make any sense.
HeIsHere said:
And you still have not specified the nature of the destruction?
Of course he "doesn't care about that right now", because he CAN'T explain it.
As to his other comical comment, he seems oblivious to the fact that since he can't explain the nature of soul destruction, we have him in a corner. And no way out. lol
And you still have not specified the nature of the destruction?
Of course he "doesn't care about that right now", because he CAN'T explain it.
As to his other comical comment, he seems oblivious to the fact that since he can't explain the nature of soul destruction, we have him in a corner. And no way out. lol
You understand that God is sovereign, we have to respect that.
God sets boundries for everyone & everything. He even sets boundries for himself. He will not break his own law for a start.
That is why he went to such a length to save us. He became man to replace Adam so that man could be redeemed legally.
Job was good at expressing this.
He wants all people to be saved but some will refuse his offer & he won't force them.
He won't violate covenants he has made. As Gen 9 tells us.
14 Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, 15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. 16 Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth.
He is certainly able to flood The Earth again. But he promised he won't
God sets boundries for everyone & everything. He even sets boundries for himself. He will not break his own law for a start.
That is why he went to such a length to save us. He became man to replace Adam so that man could be redeemed legally.
Job was good at expressing this.
He wants all people to be saved but some will refuse his offer & he won't force them.
He won't violate covenants he has made. As Gen 9 tells us.
14 Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, 15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. 16 Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth.
He is certainly able to flood The Earth again. But he promised he won't
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Then get to respecting it.
The boundary for the unsaved is that they perish and don’t receive eternal life in body, soul, or spirit.
Good job, even those who quote atheists can know the Bible. What makes you different?
What was Job’s sin exactly?
Job 1:1
1There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
So you do know the truth. Good to know. So what is it with spreading atheist hate around this thread?
uh huh, that’s a bunch of whataboutism.
Now back to the point. God is able to destroy body and soul in hell because that’s the alternative to being saved, hence why Jesus Guaranteed that that those who don’t believe in Him will perish in Joh 3:16. I literally just need to harp on two verse ad infinitum until you understand this.
The boundary for the unsaved is that they perish and don’t receive eternal life in body, soul, or spirit.
Good job, even those who quote atheists can know the Bible. What makes you different?
What was Job’s sin exactly?
Job 1:1
1There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
So you do know the truth. Good to know. So what is it with spreading atheist hate around this thread?
uh huh, that’s a bunch of whataboutism.
Now back to the point. God is able to destroy body and soul in hell because that’s the alternative to being saved, hence why Jesus Guaranteed that that those who don’t believe in Him will perish in Joh 3:16. I literally just need to harp on two verse ad infinitum until you understand this.
928. basanizó to torture
Usage: I examine, as by torture; I torment; I buffet, as of waves.
Matthew 8:6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.
THIS GUY is tormented, but not in the lake of fire and not eternally
Matthew 8:28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
These are two devils
Matthew 14:23 And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone.
24 But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary.
This is a SHIP being 'tossed', in the sea
Mark 5:2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
Many unclean spirits
Mark 6:47 And when even was come, the ship was in the midst of the sea, and he alone on the land.
48 And he saw them toiling in rowing; for the wind was contrary unto them: and about the fourth watch of the night he cometh unto them, walking upon the sea, and would have passed by them.
in rowing
Luke 8:27 And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs.
28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
unclean spirits
2 Peter 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
Lot
Revelation 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
Men on earth
Revelation 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Men on earth
Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
an age
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
the devil
AS we can CLEARLY SEE GOD HAS NO PROBLEM with using the word torment, torture TO DESCRIBE WHAT IS TAKING PLACE WHEN PAIN OR TORTURE OR TOIL IS TAKING PLACE.
Clearly, OUT OF ALL THESE PASSAGES ABOUT 'TORMENT',
THE ONLY ONE IN THE LAKE OF FIRE TO BE TORMENTED IS THE DEVIL.
AS FOR MEN THAT GO INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE THERE IS NOT ONE VERSE THAT STATES THEY WILL BE TORMENTED JUST LIKE MATT 10:28 ONLY SAYS ABLE TO SOULS ARE 'CAST IN'
ALL WE SEE AS FAR AS MAN GOES IS THOSE NOT IN THE BOOK ARE CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE BUT NO TORMENT IS MENTIONED IN REFERENCE TO THEM. 'MAYBE ABLE TO KILL, BUT NOT MENTION OF TORMENT'
THE LAKE OF FIRE IS CALLED THE 2ND DEATH NOT THE LAKE OF EVERLASTING TORMENT
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Just like Matt 10:28 DOESN'T SAY 'WILL' BUT SAYS 'ABLE TO'
CAST IN BUT DOESN'T SAY "FOR EVER" AND DOESN'T SAY 'TO BE TORMENTED'
all CAN SEE, it specifically does FOR THE DEVIL. BUT AGAIN, just like Matt 28 where it says ABLE TO but not will
NEITHER BODY NOR SOULS are EVER spoken of in terms of TORMENT NOR ETERNAL JUST 'CAST IN' in the 2nd death.
AS FOR MATT 25:46 THIS IS WHEN THE LORDS DAY BEGINS, THE GWTJ IS NOT FOR ANOTHER 1000 YEARS SO THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LAKE OF FIRE
Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Usage: I examine, as by torture; I torment; I buffet, as of waves.
Matthew 8:6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.
THIS GUY is tormented, but not in the lake of fire and not eternally
Matthew 8:28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
These are two devils
Matthew 14:23 And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone.
24 But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary.
This is a SHIP being 'tossed', in the sea
Mark 5:2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
Many unclean spirits
Mark 6:47 And when even was come, the ship was in the midst of the sea, and he alone on the land.
48 And he saw them toiling in rowing; for the wind was contrary unto them: and about the fourth watch of the night he cometh unto them, walking upon the sea, and would have passed by them.
in rowing
Luke 8:27 And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs.
28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
unclean spirits
2 Peter 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
Lot
Revelation 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
Men on earth
Revelation 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Men on earth
Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
an age
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
the devil
AS we can CLEARLY SEE GOD HAS NO PROBLEM with using the word torment, torture TO DESCRIBE WHAT IS TAKING PLACE WHEN PAIN OR TORTURE OR TOIL IS TAKING PLACE.
Clearly, OUT OF ALL THESE PASSAGES ABOUT 'TORMENT',
THE ONLY ONE IN THE LAKE OF FIRE TO BE TORMENTED IS THE DEVIL.
AS FOR MEN THAT GO INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE THERE IS NOT ONE VERSE THAT STATES THEY WILL BE TORMENTED JUST LIKE MATT 10:28 ONLY SAYS ABLE TO SOULS ARE 'CAST IN'
ALL WE SEE AS FAR AS MAN GOES IS THOSE NOT IN THE BOOK ARE CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE BUT NO TORMENT IS MENTIONED IN REFERENCE TO THEM. 'MAYBE ABLE TO KILL, BUT NOT MENTION OF TORMENT'
THE LAKE OF FIRE IS CALLED THE 2ND DEATH NOT THE LAKE OF EVERLASTING TORMENT
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Just like Matt 10:28 DOESN'T SAY 'WILL' BUT SAYS 'ABLE TO'
CAST IN BUT DOESN'T SAY "FOR EVER" AND DOESN'T SAY 'TO BE TORMENTED'
all CAN SEE, it specifically does FOR THE DEVIL. BUT AGAIN, just like Matt 28 where it says ABLE TO but not will
NEITHER BODY NOR SOULS are EVER spoken of in terms of TORMENT NOR ETERNAL JUST 'CAST IN' in the 2nd death.
AS FOR MATT 25:46 THIS IS WHEN THE LORDS DAY BEGINS, THE GWTJ IS NOT FOR ANOTHER 1000 YEARS SO THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LAKE OF FIRE
Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.