And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil
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kleronomos said:
THANK GOD we are on opposing sides!!!
That is what he means, even though he has no clue.
THANK GOD we are on opposing sides!!!
That is what he means, even though he has no clue.
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Why do we pin scripture against scripture, repeating and quoting ,over and over, the same scripture that lines us with ones own interpretation, negating, disputing or ignoring the other side, the other scriptures?
Let's all agree...
Jesus is the way, the truth and the Life... He is everything, let us bring Him to the forefront of our focus, leaning less on what happens without Him.
Eternity starts now with Him. He is our Hope. He is everything.
Much love to you all...God's Blessings on you all!!
Let's all agree...
Jesus is the way, the truth and the Life... He is everything, let us bring Him to the forefront of our focus, leaning less on what happens without Him.
Eternity starts now with Him. He is our Hope. He is everything.
Much love to you all...God's Blessings on you all!!
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I went a bit OTT but it proves a point.
This morning, I was following a teaching on children's education regarding Noah's Ark and how they perceive it.
I found myself immersed in all the charges from atheists & agnostics, RE: "How can you believe in such a cruel God"
"A loving God wouldn't do such things" blah blah blah.
It highlights the danger of allowing this kind of thinking to nudge in to the main body of believers.
A few scriptures should have been enough to prove sound doctrine. But they reject scripture repeatedly.
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Jude 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the around them cities, in like manner with them having indulged in sexual immorality and having gone after flesh strange are set forth as an example of fire eternal [the] penalty undergoing
4295 prokeimai to be set before, to be set forth
to be placed before the eyes,
to lie in sight
to stand forth
as an example
1164 deigma a thing shown, specimen
example
pattern
set forth as a warning, Jude 1:7
166 aiónios agelong, eternal
practically eternal
unending
partaking of the character of that which lasts for an age, as contrasted with that which is brief and fleeting.
(from 165 - aiṓn - an age, having a particular character and quality)
age-characteristic - the quality describing a particular age
does not focus on the future per se, but rather on the quality of the age
1349 diké right (as self-evident),
justice - the principle, a decision or its execution
right, justice
process of law
judicial hearing
execution of sentence
punishment
penalty
justice, vengeance
a judicial verdict which declares someone approved or disapproved
a judgment/finding that regards someone
a legal decision – a recompense - based on justice
5254 hupechó to hold or put under
to suffer punishment
Sodom and Gomorrah -
were judged and
then punished
Once they were destroyed there was NO TORTURE, NO CONSCIOUSNESS OF HAVING BEEN PUNISHED. THEY WERE DESTROYED, they will never rise up again, they are gone for all eternity.
THAT IS THE EXAMPLE SET FORTH FOR US OF WHAT ETERNAL FIRE MEANS in the words of GOD.
To say that there is 'eternal torment of consciousness' TAKING PLACE IN SODOM would be ridiculous same as it taking place after the 2nd death.
Sodom and Gomorrah were set before us an EXAMPLE as to the punishment one suffers when cast into the lake of fire.
They were destroyed and that was the end. Nothing 'continued' on past. The smoke of their 'demise' was seen but then it just went up and vanished.
That is the example we are given, that IS WHAT IS WRITTEN, that is the example given us for what the the punishment of the 'fire eternal' really means.
Anything besides that, is just an addition of man. And obviously, 'man' doesn't like it. Man wants to hold onto those traditions. Man will fight tooth and nail. BUT WE SEE with our own eyes THE WORDS OF GOD. Choice is ours. Gods words or the wisdom of man.
John 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Even here you have read things to the effect of 'THE SMOKE is in the SPIRITUAL REALM so how can we know?'. BUT THIS tells us that WHAT we do see and what we do know IN THIS WORLD does not take on NEW MEANINGS in the next one.
GOD is not the author of confusion. THANK GOD HE HAD THAT WRITTEN for us to quote because it sure seems to come into play all the time.
EVERY ONE HAS SEEN WOOD GO INTO A FIRE. SEEN THE SMOKE THAT RISES UP FROM IT. SEEN THE ASHES LEFT BEHIND.
And until some man said 'and there is eternal torment in the lake of fire' NO ONE ever thought it because it wasn't written. The words used to describe the 2nd death were made into a doctrine all their own and that is why we are here today.
And yet there are those who will tell you that is not the truth. SO ALL WE CAN DO and will do is point to what is written and pray that the Holy Spirit opens the eyes and ears so that HIS TRUTHS will prevail in the minds of those seeking, because as anyone can see, all the points being made are simply not addressed and it is back to the same one or two points that don't say what they claim they do, to keep the deception going.
4295 prokeimai to be set before, to be set forth
to be placed before the eyes,
to lie in sight
to stand forth
as an example
1164 deigma a thing shown, specimen
example
pattern
set forth as a warning, Jude 1:7
166 aiónios agelong, eternal
practically eternal
unending
partaking of the character of that which lasts for an age, as contrasted with that which is brief and fleeting.
(from 165 - aiṓn - an age, having a particular character and quality)
age-characteristic - the quality describing a particular age
does not focus on the future per se, but rather on the quality of the age
1349 diké right (as self-evident),
justice - the principle, a decision or its execution
right, justice
process of law
judicial hearing
execution of sentence
punishment
penalty
justice, vengeance
a judicial verdict which declares someone approved or disapproved
a judgment/finding that regards someone
a legal decision – a recompense - based on justice
5254 hupechó to hold or put under
to suffer punishment
Sodom and Gomorrah -
were judged and
then punished
Once they were destroyed there was NO TORTURE, NO CONSCIOUSNESS OF HAVING BEEN PUNISHED. THEY WERE DESTROYED, they will never rise up again, they are gone for all eternity.
THAT IS THE EXAMPLE SET FORTH FOR US OF WHAT ETERNAL FIRE MEANS in the words of GOD.
To say that there is 'eternal torment of consciousness' TAKING PLACE IN SODOM would be ridiculous same as it taking place after the 2nd death.
Sodom and Gomorrah were set before us an EXAMPLE as to the punishment one suffers when cast into the lake of fire.
They were destroyed and that was the end. Nothing 'continued' on past. The smoke of their 'demise' was seen but then it just went up and vanished.
That is the example we are given, that IS WHAT IS WRITTEN, that is the example given us for what the the punishment of the 'fire eternal' really means.
Anything besides that, is just an addition of man. And obviously, 'man' doesn't like it. Man wants to hold onto those traditions. Man will fight tooth and nail. BUT WE SEE with our own eyes THE WORDS OF GOD. Choice is ours. Gods words or the wisdom of man.
John 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Even here you have read things to the effect of 'THE SMOKE is in the SPIRITUAL REALM so how can we know?'. BUT THIS tells us that WHAT we do see and what we do know IN THIS WORLD does not take on NEW MEANINGS in the next one.
GOD is not the author of confusion. THANK GOD HE HAD THAT WRITTEN for us to quote because it sure seems to come into play all the time.
EVERY ONE HAS SEEN WOOD GO INTO A FIRE. SEEN THE SMOKE THAT RISES UP FROM IT. SEEN THE ASHES LEFT BEHIND.
And until some man said 'and there is eternal torment in the lake of fire' NO ONE ever thought it because it wasn't written. The words used to describe the 2nd death were made into a doctrine all their own and that is why we are here today.
And yet there are those who will tell you that is not the truth. SO ALL WE CAN DO and will do is point to what is written and pray that the Holy Spirit opens the eyes and ears so that HIS TRUTHS will prevail in the minds of those seeking, because as anyone can see, all the points being made are simply not addressed and it is back to the same one or two points that don't say what they claim they do, to keep the deception going.
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Looks like Lucy’s true colors are coming out. I told y’all, the truth has a way of bringing out the worst in people who reject it. Just look at all of the secular and critical-of-God propaganda she just spammed the thread with. Pretty sure spam of this sort is against the site rules.
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god, with a little G? Just can't crucify that flesh can you?
Matthew 4:4 But He answered and said, IT IS WRITTEN, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Colossians 2:9 For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Colossians 2:12 Buried with Him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised Him from the dead.
Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
Amos 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
Amos 8:13 In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.
Amos 8:14 They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say, Thy god, O Dan, liveth; and, The manner of Beersheba liveth; even they shall fall, and never rise up again.
Isaiah 28:5 In that day shall the LORD of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of His people,
Isaiah 28:6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.
Isaiah 28:7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
Isaiah 28:8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.
Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall He teach knowledge? and whom shall He make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isaiah 28:12 To whom He said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Is THAT how you came to knowledge? Do you read GODS WORDS, all of GODS WORDS in order, allowing HIM to impart HIS WISDOM and knowledge, IN HIS ORDER to make known HIS THOUGHTS and HIS WAYS? It is the way I DID.
Did you? Have you taken the time it takes to study it HIS WAY to find yourself approved? Have you done it HIS WAY? I believe IF you had, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to be in this conversation as you are, because when you do do it HIS WAY, everything you see here all that opposes HIM and His Character and His goodness and mercy, causes sorrow and pain. VENGEANCE belongs to HIM because WE are sinners and HE IS JUST.
Matthew 4:4 But He answered and said, IT IS WRITTEN, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Colossians 2:9 For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Colossians 2:12 Buried with Him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised Him from the dead.
Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
Amos 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
Amos 8:13 In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.
Amos 8:14 They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say, Thy god, O Dan, liveth; and, The manner of Beersheba liveth; even they shall fall, and never rise up again.
Isaiah 28:5 In that day shall the LORD of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of His people,
Isaiah 28:6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.
Isaiah 28:7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
Isaiah 28:8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.
Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall He teach knowledge? and whom shall He make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isaiah 28:12 To whom He said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Is THAT how you came to knowledge? Do you read GODS WORDS, all of GODS WORDS in order, allowing HIM to impart HIS WISDOM and knowledge, IN HIS ORDER to make known HIS THOUGHTS and HIS WAYS? It is the way I DID.
Did you? Have you taken the time it takes to study it HIS WAY to find yourself approved? Have you done it HIS WAY? I believe IF you had, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to be in this conversation as you are, because when you do do it HIS WAY, everything you see here all that opposes HIM and His Character and His goodness and mercy, causes sorrow and pain. VENGEANCE belongs to HIM because WE are sinners and HE IS JUST.
What else can we judge God's heart for, because we know better?
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