An Analysis on the 144,000 in Revelation

[DavidTree]

Where did I say he did?

QUESTION: Can you find a directive from the LORD or the Apostles that the LORD will leave behind His Saints and then come back for them after the Resurrection?

This question is in direct relation to your synopsis = "the five foolish virgins" of your Post #353

 

[Rhomphaeam]

QUESTION: Can you find a directive from the LORD or the Apostles that the LORD will leave behind His Saints and then come back for them after the Resurrection?

This question is in direct relation to your synopsis = "the five foolish virgins" of your Post #353

Perhaps the point is that derivation of inference is not the same as reference. He didn't actually say what you claim he is saying. I am assuming he is sufficiently intelligent enough to know what he actually wrote. Don't you?

 

[DavidTree]

Perhaps the point is that derivation of inference is not the same as reference. He didn't actually say what you claim he is saying. I am assuming he is sufficiently intelligent enough to know what he actually wrote. Don't you?

He has inferred it in his synopsis Post #353

Therefore I ask the QUESTION.

This is how we seek to understand each other and scripture = by asking.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

He has inferred it in his synopsis Post #353

Therefore I ask the QUESTION.

This is how we seek to understand each other and scripture = by asking.

You didn't ask a question. You expressly implied what he said. Are we mentally deranged? Do we speak in tongues without a translator? Are we even plausible in our incredulous misuse of words which we imagine can cover us over with innocence? What say you David?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

No offense, but could you share some scriptures? Thanks!

“I don’t know you,” (Matt. 25:13), essentially the same conclusion for “those who practice lawlessness” (Matt. 7:23).

 

[godlovejoy]

Maybe we should be concerned about whether WE are ready to meet Christ, whether we'll hear him say, "well done good and faithful servant," or "depart from me I never knew you!" I'd done my research and come to a conclusion that He'll return sometime between 2028 to 2042 on the Day of Atonement; but whichever year He's really coming down to meet us in this period, that's not up to you and I to know, it's up to God

I'm posting this not so much for your sake as just generally for anyone that does not condone gaslighting.

The offending quotes are as follows:





The accusation is that these statements are an act of bearing false witness. David never called God a liar therefore his claim is justified. David made it very clear which posts were the offending posts.

My suggestion is that you should attack what you perceive to be bad doctrine instead of attacking someone personally by claiming they said something they never said. Personal attacks are unwelcome and have no place here.

That said, don't do it again and there'll be no hard feelings. Let's all get along and share in God's love.

thank you for the explanation. Are you a moderator? I have experienced some harshness as well. Does the Moderator search posts for rule breaking or must someone make a report before a rule breaker is disciplined?

 

[DavidTree]

You didn't ask a question. You expressly implied what he said. Are we mentally deranged? Do we speak in tongues without a translator? Are we even plausible in our incredulous misuse of words which we imagine can cover us over with innocence? What say you David?

JESUS says: "You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ....

I expressly asked a question in direct connection to Post #353 from Member RR.

You are free to examine this Post #353.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Two-house theology...the commonwealth of Israel. It's where the Lord's led me!

Two olive trees on the left and right sides of a meronah, baby.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

JESUS says: "You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ....

I expressly asked a question in direct connection to Post #353 from Member RR.

You are free to examine this Post #353.

No you didn't ask him a question as though asking a question innocently as a child may ask a question - you made a contract of asking a question and then prescribed what it was he was saying - by which schism you feel you can insult the intelligence of those whom you also flatter. We are not in a court room. Neither is anyone under investigation. So no need for an examination then! I can read well enough. And spare me your Do not bear false witness narrative.

 

[DavidTree]

No you didn't ask him a question as though asking a question innocently as a child may ask a question - you made a contract of asking a question and then prescribed what it was he was saying - by which schism you feel you can insult the intelligence of those whom you also flatter. We are not in a court room. Neither is anyone under investigation. So no need for an examination then! I can read well enough. And spare me your Do not bear false witness narrative.

You will not be spared as you are not entitled to sin, therefore the Word says to you "Thou shall not bear false witness"

You have chosen to assault with falsehood = you are curently bearing false witness in the Body of Christ.

The QUESTION is valid and without reproach to any Member in relation to the five foolish virgins in Post #353.

QUESTION: Can you find a directive from the LORD or the Apostles that the LORD will leave behind His Saints (five foolish virgins) and then come back for them after the Resurrection?

 

[godlovejoy]

Do you see the first resurrection is divided into two categories?

I’m sorry I really don’t see it as 2 categories....I only see one group.. the group that rules and reigns with Christ

 

[Rhomphaeam]

The QUESTION is valid and without reproach to any Member in relation to the five foolish virgins in Post #353.

QUESTION: Can you find a directive from the LORD or the Apostles that the LORD will leave behind His Saints (five foolish virgins) and then come back for them after the Resurrection?

QUESTION - Where did he say that, David? Try writing like a brother and resist writing like a legal clerk.

Make your own case and stop telling others what case they have made unless they say it.

I see that you are easily encouraged and less easily corrected. You stand on a scale wherein all is weighted to favour your own teaching by which confidence you lay down the Word of God and stand back innocently anticipating that no matter how your precept in innocent asking is perceived - you will still weigh the scale in favour of your doctrine. Doctrine is worthless unless it is a matter of life.

I have been careful with my words to you and so you eventually show love for what I write - until I write what I can also see with my own eyes. Spare me your method. It is no more effectual on this man than coffee is a worthwhile drink to an Englishman.

 

[RR]

What a fascinating analysis, I really appreciate your time and thought for this writeup; but I have to say, this conclusion is not quite accurate. If you read the THREE parables in Matt. 25 (sheep and goats judgement counted as one parable), you'll notice that there're not just two groups, but THREE. In all three parables there are THREE groups. In the parable of talents, you have the first servant who received ten talents and doubled it; in the sheep and goats judgement, you have the "brethrens" who are taken care of by the ”sheep“;

I'm sorry but you seem to be all over the page here. My only point in explaining the parable of the sheep and the goats was to respond to the original post of why I felt the Church is also the 144,000 mentioned in Rev. 7.

Then in the first parable of the Ten Virgins, although it seems like there're just 5 wise virgins and 5 foolish virgins, but obviously there must be a bride as well. She's not walking down the aisle led by her father towards the groom at the alter, while holding a bouquet in her hand with something borrowed something blue and a sixpence in her shoe. In that culture, she's ALREADY at the chuppah waiting for the groom to pick her up. That's the local custom till this day. That much is revealed in Rev. 17:7-8. All of the disciples were very familiar with that - they'd personally attended a wedding at Cana, right? So there's no need to specifically mention the bride in this parable.

And what does this have to do with the original post? We're only concerned with the identity of the Wise and Foolish virgins and the comparison with the 144,000 and the Great Multitude of Rev. 7.

Now back to these ten virgins, or maybe we should say, maidens; they're not the host, not the wedding planner, not the cake baker, not the photographer, not the waiter, probably not even bridemaids. They are not burdened with any of those responsibilities. Their ONLY job is to lead the groom to the bride at night. The five wise ones come prepared with oil, the five foolish ones aren't prepared. There has been all kinds of doctrines and interpretations built around this one simple parable, but most of them agree on one thing, that the primary takeaway from this parable is being born again in SPIRIT. OIL is the Holy Spirit, it can't be shared or traded, each individual Christian must gain their own oil and develop a personal relationship with Lord Jesus. If you don't have it, then you'd be shut out of the door, because "Most assuredly I say to you, I DON'T KNOW YOU!" says the Lord.

And that's exactly what happened to the foolish virgins, they ran out of oil and when the Bridegroom (Jesus) came, the wise were ready and entered in. The Foolish were shut out.

So the conclusion is very simple - the identity of the Bride is determined, she's chosen by the Groom's father and purchased with a price, that's a constant; the only variable is the guests who arrive at the marriage supper of the Lamb, they're explicitly mentioned in Rev. 14:6 and 19:9.

I'm sorry but I don't see how your get that from these two verses. Please elaborate.

In this parable, those are the five wise virgin and ONLY the five wise virgins, the five foolish ones have MISSED it. Put it in the context of the end times, the five wise virgins are those who have endured to the end (Matt. 24:13), while the five foolish ones are those who're falling away (2 Thess. 2:3). And we should be satisfied for being invited as a guest, because that's the greatest honor and privelege we could ever have imagined, we as the children of God will receive our reward of eternal life nonetheless.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

RR

 

[Nehemiah6]

It is no more useful to this man than coffee is a worthwhile drink to an Englishman.

I love this. You would probably prefer Earl Grey (or would you rather have Twinings?) Anyhow that's a good word.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I’m sorry I really don’t see it as 2 categories....I only see one group.. the group that rules and reigns with Christ

Yeah, only one mass physical resurrection at the end of the Tribulation when He returns. There was one similar event before that though, which took place right after the resurrection at Jerusalem - many saints rose from the grave. That was a microcosm of the final bodily resurrection. What is debatable, though, is UNTIL THE DAY OF THE LORD, whether our souls will be transported to Hades by Charon the ferryman, or immediately ascended to heaven with the Lord.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Yeah, only one mass physical resurrection at the end of the Tribulation when He returns.

Not according to Scripture. The Resurrection/Rapture occurs long before the resurrection of the Tribulation saints.

 

[oyster67]

The Church (which is you and I) is the Bride of Christ Jesus. All those who are taken up in the Rapture.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

I love this. You would probably prefer Earl Grey (or would you rather have Twinings?) Anyhow that's a good word.

You know its funny how some things go down. Today I was doing my customary calvary officer routine with a mad man and the very idea of drinking tea came to mind and I expressly thought of how Earl Grey tea would be thought of - then laughed at myself and remembered that I prefer strong Irish Breakfast tea. Thank you.

 

[oyster67]

Charon the ferryman

???????????????

 

[oyster67]

You know its funny how some things go down. Today I was doing my customary calvary officer routine with a mad man and the very idea of drinking tea came to mind and I expressly thought of how Earl Grey tea would be thought of - then laughed at myself and remembered that I prefer strong Irish Breakfast tea. Thank you.

Peppermint fo me, pleeze