Am I saved

[hornetguy]

If we have to meet certain conditions aren't we responsible for at least part of our own salvation?

Of course. We have to meet the condition of believing. We have to meet the condition of having faith. Are those works, as well? We still have to DO them.
This can be carried out to the silliest extreme..... sometimes it sounds like to the "no works allowed" crowd, that we simply have to exist, and we are saved. If we DO anything at all, it becomes a "work".....

How silly...... JESUS told the apostles to go out and teach the world, BAPTIZING them in the name of the Father, etc....

Did Jesus consider baptism a work?

There are a few scriptures that mention just believing, or just faith..... but there is also a scripture that mentions repentance and baptism..... does that mean you don't have to believe or have faith to repent?

There's a scripture that says that baptism saves us. Does that mean that belief and faith are not required?

Taking ONE (or two) scriptures and basing the whole concept of salvation on them is the same as the blind men describing the elephant.... each concludes what the elephant looks like based on ONE point of reference.
The whole elephant must be seen to get an accurate description... it's the same with salvation.

 

[Fundaamental]

I feel my lack of understanding on subjects of the incorruptible seed. And why I keep sinning might be a hindrance to my belief and acceptance.

Its almost like each time I read something new in the bible, I get the same feeling I had when I was baptised, which is unsure.

When I was baptised I had no knowledge of faith grace The fathers will and very little knowledge of Jesus, Adam and Eve.

I didn't even know Grace means an unmerited favour from God.

I Just kinda went along with what others where saying. But a big part of me wanted to believe.

I feel perhaps my heart as been examined and maybe my belief was not pure enough to recieve the new seed, or maybe it has

I'm puzzled I cant find any scripture that says God breaths life into each new born baby. I've found scripture that says God breathed a living soul into Adam.

I'm assuming this means Flesh can not give birth to spirit.

 

[DJT_47]

Can you quote a verse that we are saved by faith through grace? Any verse that suggests salvation begins with faith which leads to grace?

The very same Ephesians 2:8. You are not looking this correctly. What does the word "through" mean and what are some common synonyms for it? It's a preposition with common synonyms such as 'by' and 'because' and when these are used it would be, "because of, by reason of, by virtue of, due to, via", etc. Now substitute any one of those in place of "through".

 

[Magenta]

The very same Ephesians 2:8. You are not looking this correctly. What does the word "through" mean and what are some common synonyms for it? It's a preposition with common synonyms such as 'by' and 'because' and when these are used it would be, "because of, by reason of, by virtue of, due to, via", etc. Now substitute any one of those in place of "through".

Reminds me of Bill Clinton: “It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is.”

 

[DJT_47]

Reminds me of Bill Clinton: “It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is.”

It is what it is.

 

[Cameron143]

Of course. We have to meet the condition of believing. We have to meet the condition of having faith. Are those works, as well? We still have to DO them.
This can be carried out to the silliest extreme..... sometimes it sounds like to the "no works allowed" crowd, that we simply have to exist, and we are saved. If we DO anything at all, it becomes a "work".....

How silly...... JESUS told the apostles to go out and teach the world, BAPTIZING them in the name of the Father, etc....

Did Jesus consider baptism a work?

There are a few scriptures that mention just believing, or just faith..... but there is also a scripture that mentions repentance and baptism..... does that mean you don't have to believe or have faith to repent?

There's a scripture that says that baptism saves us. Does that mean that belief and faith are not required?

Taking ONE (or two) scriptures and basing the whole concept of salvation on them is the same as the blind men describing the elephant.... each concludes what the elephant looks like based on ONE point of reference.
The whole elephant must be seen to get an accurate description... it's the same with salvation.

I understand your position and the outworking of our salvation is still in many ways a mystery. Add to that the experience of salvation is so divergent for Christians as to further confuse the issue.
I like the old guy when he was asked how he knew he was saved, he simply said...I was there when it happened.
But the issue for Christians is generally which came first...Holy Spirit or faith, the Christian chicken or egg debate, and not between grace and faith. It is easy enough to establish that it is the grace of God that sets in motion the process of salvation.
If someone wants to believe they believed apart from the aid of God and then received the Holy Spirit I don't generally enter that debate. Most believe already beforehand what they will believe afterwards and because people are so diametrically opposed, little besides contention comes about. But when someone believes they must do things to get saved they have a works based gospel and I feel that they in love need to hear the true gospel. That is what I have attempted to do here.

 

[Cameron143]

The very same Ephesians 2:8. You are not looking this correctly. What does the word "through" mean and what are some common synonyms for it? It's a preposition with common synonyms such as 'by' and 'because' and when these are used it would be, "because of, by reason of, by virtue of, due to, via", etc. Now substitute any one of those in place of "through".

Sorry but your definitions as well as syntax are wrong. A better rendering would be....in grace God saved us...he exercised His grace through the instrument of faith.

 

[Cameron143]

Reminds me of Bill Clinton: “It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is.”

Oh...you know Clinton but not Harvey? Smh

 

[Fundaamental]

There should be a Change in you as soon as receive Christ in you -------if there is no change in you at the time that you receive Christ ---then you are not truly Born Again -----you have a veil over your eyes and Mind and Heart living in this world ----and that veil is removed the minute you are Born Again ----

There should definitely be a change in you immediately ------upon being Born Again -----

---this is the last line of this scripture below ------

The veil is removed only when a Person Is joined to Christ ------

This is interesting, I supposed there could be many changes. Could one of them be a desire to want to believe more.

 

[Fundaamental]

Could this mean the veil is not opened until you understand and believe in the veil.

I take it the veil is some sort of shield between this world and heaven maybe in the form of light that you can not see.

 

[DJT_47]

Sorry but your definitions as well as syntax are wrong. A better rendering would be....in grace God saved us...he exercised His grace through the instrument of faith.

Believe what you like. I suggest you publish a new version of the bible excluding all the passages you don't like or refuse to accept, but you know, they wouldn't be there if they had no relevance. Goodbye.

 

[Cameron143]

Believe what you like. I suggest you publish a new version of the bible excluding all the passages you don't like or refuse to accept, but you know, they wouldn't be there if they had no relevance. Goodbye.

Grace and peace.

 

[Ted01]

I feel my lack of understanding on subjects of the incorruptible seed. And why I keep sinning might be a hindrance to my belief and acceptance.

Its almost like each time I read something new in the bible, I get the same feeling I had when I was baptised, which is unsure.

When I was baptised I had no knowledge of faith grace The fathers will and very little knowledge of Jesus, Adam and Eve.

I didn't even know Grace means an unmerited favour from God.

I Just kinda went along with what others where saying. But a big part of me wanted to believe.

I feel perhaps my heart as been examined and maybe my belief was not pure enough to recieve the new seed, or maybe it has

I'm puzzled I cant find any scripture that says God breaths life into each new born baby. I've found scripture that says God breathed a living soul into Adam.

I'm assuming this means Flesh can not give birth to spirit.

I'm glad that you're so tenacious in trying to understand and get to know God - I'm sorry that you're so troubled and feel confused.

You say "maybe my belief was not pure enough"... well, I can assure you that none of our faith/belief is pure enough to please God. Also, you seem focused on the "seed" issue...? Remember that Jesus said, "“If you had faith like a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you. (Lk. 17:6)
Jesus also spoke about coming to Him as little children... little children don't have PhD's in Theology... and you don't need that either.
He works with us right where we're at... most of the time that's a place of being utterly hopeless, "poor in spirit"... that means a poverty of any spiritual understanding.

I'd encourage you to stop trying to understand/know/be intellectual about anything other than Jesus saves us when we call out to Him... that a Scriptural fact! It's doesn't require anything more. Just hold on to the belief that Jesus wasn't lying when He said:

Rev. 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

Matt. 7:7-11 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

Luke 11:9 And I tell you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

Psalms 34:18 The Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit.

Put your faith in Jesus being believable... trust that He's good to His word.
Quit relying on you.

 

[Sheariah07]

I feel my lack of understanding on subjects of the incorruptible seed. And why I keep sinning might be a hindrance to my belief and acceptance.

Its almost like each time I read something new in the bible, I get the same feeling I had when I was baptised, which is unsure.

When I was baptised I had no knowledge of faith grace The fathers will and very little knowledge of Jesus, Adam and Eve.

I didn't even know Grace means an unmerited favour from God.

I Just kinda went along with what others where saying. But a big part of me wanted to believe.

I feel perhaps my heart as been examined and maybe my belief was not pure enough to recieve the new seed, or maybe it has

I'm puzzled I cant find any scripture that says God breaths life into each new born baby. I've found scripture that says God breathed a living soul into Adam.

I'm assuming this means Flesh can not give birth to spirit.

1 John 3:9 KJV
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

This is the grace of God.

Titus 2:11-12 KJV
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, [12] Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

John 6:63 KJV
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The seed is the word of God. Continue meditating and seeking God's righteousness and it will set you free.

 

[hornetguy]

View attachment 249857

Could this mean the veil is not opened until you understand and believe in the veil.

I take it the veil is some sort of shield between this world and heaven maybe in the form of light that you can not see.

The veil is a figurative description of the lack of understanding the "un-saved" have.... their lack of understanding prevents them from, well, understanding the wonder of God's grace.
Once a person learns about Jesus, and decides to accept him as their savior, having the faith that God can, and will save them, and they do as Peter said, repent from their old, sinful life and are baptized into Christ.... the veil (mis-understanding) is lifted, and they see the unimaginable gift that has been given to us....

 

[Fundaamental]

1 John 3:9 KJV
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

This is the grace of God.

Titus 2:11-12 KJV
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, [12] Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

John 6:63 KJV
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The seed is the word of God. Continue meditating and seeking God's righteousness and it will set you free.

I have been turning to brandy, for months, but making a full bottle last a week.

However for the 5 days I have had none, and I have not missed it. Which means I am not alcohol dependent.

My sin is I have not been saying of sober mind but I never get drunk but perhaps feel a false sense of confidence from drinking brandy, but befor I came to Christ I always enjoyed a brandy.

My reasons for drinking it tho, may not be substantiated.

Which was Brandy is known to help with shock.

So for 5 days I'm praying to Jesus and putting my hope in Jesus to relieve me of shock.

However this is where I stumble,
My shock comes back and I end up buying a bottle of brandy when I go shopping. Because im not hearing from God answering my prayers, but I am confused by that because I do develop a will to want to stop, but I don't know whether that is hearing from God.

 

[Sheariah07]

I have been turning to brandy, for months, but making a full bottle last a week.

However for the 5 days I have had none, and I have not missed it. Which means I am not alcohol dependent.

My sin is I have not been saying of sober mind but I never get drunk but perhaps feel a false sense of confidence from drinking brandy, but befor I came to Christ I always enjoyed a brandy.

My reasons for drinking it tho, may not be substantiated.

Which was Brandy is known to help with shock.

So for 5 days I'm praying to Jesus and putting my hope in Jesus to relieve me of shock.

However this is where I stumble,
My shock comes back and I end up buying a bottle of brandy when I go shopping. Because im not hearing from God answering my prayers, but I am confused by that because I do develop a will to want to stop, but I don't know whether that is hearing from God.

Yeah, I understand. Because our flesh is weak. If you read Romans 7, you will see a man struggling with his sin although he wants to break free. However, it doesn't end there, there is hope by putting to death our flesh by the Spirit of God, read Romans 8. You just have to ask Jesus as you always do, he won't decline your prayers.

This is how we walk spiritually, by asking God to only do his will in our lives and remove every hindrances to serve him fully. We all go through this but we must come to the point of finally putting to death the flesh and its lusts, then you become free indeed, as Jesus promised in his word. If the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed. No more bondage to any sin. 🙂

Only prioritize God because that's the first and greatest commandment is to love him with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength. Acknowledge him in all you do and he will direct your paths. Don't lose hope but draw nearer to Jesus. He will guide you along the way.

 

[Fundaamental]

I'm glad that you're so tenacious in trying to understand and get to know God - I'm sorry that you're so troubled and feel confused.

You say "maybe my belief was not pure enough"... well, I can assure you that none of our faith/belief is pure enough to please God. Also, you seem focused on the "seed" issue...? Remember that Jesus said, "“If you had faith like a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you. (Lk. 17:6)
Jesus also spoke about coming to Him as little children... little children don't have PhD's in Theology... and you don't need that either.
He works with us right where we're at... most of the time that's a place of being utterly hopeless, "poor in spirit"... that means a poverty of any spiritual understanding.

I'd encourage you to stop trying to understand/know/be intellectual about anything other than Jesus saves us when we call out to Him... that a Scriptural fact! It's doesn't require anything more. Just hold on to the belief that Jesus wasn't lying when He said:

Rev. 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

Matt. 7:7-11 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

Luke 11:9 And I tell you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

Psalms 34:18 The Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit.

Put your faith in Jesus being believable... trust that He's good to His word.
Quit relying on you.

The seed issue, Jesus was born in the flesh of both fully God and fully man.

My understanding.

Jesus kept his seed incorruptible, but for what reason.

My thoughts.

For a new seed to be born and to be passed on to mankind.

Then when you recieve this seed after believing, its unstoppable, you go bloom, the transformation must be instant, a new birth has taken place, like a new seed you plant when growing grass.

The grass will find a way to grow anywhere and it just simply goes bloom.

More thoughts on how easy it is For God to plant a new seed in us,

Bible old t God simply breathed life into flesh and gave Adam a living soul.

 

[mailmandan]

There IS a change.

You ARE born again. THAT'S the change.
That doesn't negate a single thing I've said. Unless you are claiming to be a sinless perfection adherent.

Speaking of sinless perfection, a previous member of CC who was banned for promoting heresy just said this to me on a different Christian forum.

 

[Blade]

I met a Christian in a concert in the park where I lived, they where singing and doing baptisms,

I was interested in the baptizing. The young lady I was talking to told me about how the baptizing worked, she told me if I believe Jesus Christ is lord who died for your sins and rose from the grave you will receive the holy spirit and eternal salvation

So I thought about this, I knew Jesus was the son of God, but I didn't know he was my lord and saviour, I thought God was.

I thought God can see everything so he must have sent his son to be our lord saviour, I've since learned Jesus is God.

But when i was baptized I thought I had to say yes I believe Jesus is my lord and saviour in order to recieve salvation.
After witnessing many baptisms that day, I thought it was a piece of cake, just copy everybody else I thought.

What happens when you recieve the holy spirit, and how do you know you've received the holy spirit.

I've since learned that Jesus died for all mankind's sins, because everybody inherited a sin nature from Adam and Eve.

After reading some of the bible it seems all the Jews had very strict training from God and a lot of people believed at the time Jesus was the Messiah, but some didn't,

But both sides of believers had strict training first from the father and many lessons befor being asked whether they believed Jesus was there lord and saviour.

I was wondering do I need to be like a Jew first befor becoming a Christian in order to truly believe.



Because I don't know whether I'm saved, and I don't understand everything that is written in the bible.

I don't pray that often or feal the need to. If I had the holy spirit would I be talking to God more often,

I wonder after 4 pages are you more confused? Well many things have been said. Are you saved? Read John 3:16 Rom 10 9-10. Do what He said.. read luke 11 13 again do what He said. He is not a man that He should lie. So if you believe John 3:16 you are His forever.

See no one hear can answer this. He God knocks on your heart do you answer or not Rev 3:20. Believe on the lord Jesus and you shall be saved. Then you ask the Father for the sweet holy Spirit ... as its written you shall receive power after.... Just do what He said in His word know He can not lie and will do everything He said. Being Jewish means nothing here for we are one body there is one vine and many branches. Being Jewish with out knowing Christ you are lost forever. So one vine and many branches where Christ alone is the head.