All Sufficient Blood of Christ

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7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#41
Here are the men I quoted and no they didn't live before Christ. It is clear you didn't expand my response to read it, you just responded.

“There is a boy here who has five barley loaves and two fish; but what good are these for so many.” – St. Andrew the Apostle, 1st century A.D.

“But let no one eat or drink of the Eucharist except those who have been baptized into the name of the Lord, for the Lord has also spoken concerning this: ‘Do not give what is holy to dogs.’” – The Didache, late 1st century A.D

“Only that Eucharist which is under the authority of the bishop (or whomever he himself designates) is to be considered valid. Wherever the bishop appears, there let the congregation be; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” – St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Smyrnaeans, A.D. 107-110

“For we do not receive these things as common bread nor common drink; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Savior having been incarnate by God’s logos took both flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have been taught that the food eucharistized through the word of prayer that is from Him, from which our blood and flesh are nourished by transformation, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who became incarnate. – St. Justin Martyr, First Apology, A.D. 151-155

“For as the bread, which is produced from the earth, when it receives the invocation of God, is no longer common bread, but the Eucharist, consisting of two realities, earthly and heavenly; so also our bodies, when they receive the Eucharist, are no longer corruptible, having the hope of the resurrection to eternity.” – St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies, A.D. 177-183
“We give thanks to the Creator of all, and, along with thanksgiving and prayer for the blessings we have received, we also eat the bread presented to us; and this bread becomes by prayer a sacred body, which sanctifies those who sincerely partake of it.” – Origen, Against Celsus, A.D. 248

“The bread and the wine of the Eucharist before the holy invocation of the adorable Trinity were simple bread and wine, but the invocation having been made, the bread becomes the body of Christ and the wine the blood of Christ.” – St. Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, A.D. 348-350
“You will see the Levites bringing the loaves and a cup of wine, and placing them on the table. So long as the prayers and invocations have not yet been made, it is mere bread and a mere cup. But when the great and wonderous prayers have been recited, then the bread becomes the body and the cup the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ….When the great prayers and holy supplications are sent up, the Word descends on the bread and the cup, and it becomes His body. – St. Athanasius of Alexandria, Sermon to the Newly Baptized, A.D. 373
“Now we, as often as we receive the Sacramental Elements, which by the mysterious efficacy of holy prayer are transformed into the Flesh and the Blood, ‘do show the Lord’s Death.’” – St. Ambrose of Milan, On the Christian Faith, A.D. 378-379
“It is not man that causes the things offered to become the Body and Blood of Christ, but he who was crucified for us, Christ himself. The priest, in the role of Christ, pronounces these words, but their power and grace are God’s. ‘This is my body,’ he says. This word transforms the things offered. – St. John Chrysostom, Against the Judaizers, A.D. 386-387

“How was Christ carried in His Own Hands? Because when He commended His Own Body and Blood, He took into His Hands that which the faithful know; and in like manner carried Himself, when He said, ‘This is My Body.’” – St. Augustine, Exposition on the Psalms, A.D. 396-420

“He did not say, ‘This is the symbol of My Body, and this, of My Blood,’ but, what is set before us, but that it is transformed by means of the Eucharistic action into Flesh and Blood.” – St.Theodore of Mopsuestia, Commentary on Matthew, A.D. 400-415

“For when the Lord says, ‘unless you have eaten the flesh of the Son of Man, and drunk His blood, you will not have life in you,’ you ought so to be partakers at the Holy Table, as to have no doubt whatever concerning the reality of Christ’s Body and Blood.” – St. Leo the Great, Sermon 91, A.D. mid-5th century

I really hope this does not engender 35 rebuttals and 25 dislikes

I do not believe the site allows for this, so it may stop

it should be reported
 
Dec 1, 2019
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#43
I really hope this does not engender 35 rebuttals and 25 dislikes

I do not believe the site allows for this, so it may stop

it should be reported
Do you take issue with the men I quoted? Are they wrong? Let us say they are totally backwards, then why on earth would you trust men with these clear beliefs to be guided by the Holy Spirit and bring you the canon of scripture you hold so dear?
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#44
for a 'new' member with 15 posts to his credit and half of them here, he certainly credits himself with familiarity

perhaps he is not so new after all
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,230
113
www.christiancourier.com
#45
It is absolutely of zero significance if Catholic beliefs are being presented. We have every member of this forum quoting and interpreting scripture. So you have no grounds to dismiss the reflection based on where they come from, you can respond openly in civil dialogue.

The word covenant means testament. So the New Testament is the same as saying New Covenant. Now can you tell me what that covenant is?
What I don't think you understand, and perhaps you are a new arrival to all forum discourse, is that when you derail the OP topic, chaos ensues and no consistent line of thought is able to persist due to the investments individuals shall have in both the derail issue, and the OP.
Picture if you will, as an analogy, someone making an egg white omelet . They're whisking away and then someone comes up behind them and adds liquid milk chocolate.

Is the egg white omelet still on the menu? Or has it been obscured by milk chocolate? No. It's a mess that made the egg donor weep. She was going to sell those to that basket toting Rabbit in April. What the.....
 
Dec 1, 2019
20
6
3
#46
What I don't think you understand, and perhaps you are a new arrival to all forum discourse, is that when you derail the OP topic, chaos ensues and no consistent line of thought is able to persist due to the investments individuals shall have in both the derail issue, and the OP.
Picture if you will, as an analogy, someone making an egg white omelet . They're whisking away and then someone comes up behind them and adds liquid milk chocolate.

Is the egg white omelet still on the menu? Or has it been obscured by milk chocolate? No. It's a mess that made the egg donor weep. She was going to sell those to that basket toting Rabbit in April. What the.....
I have read the OP and was responding to question of connections between the OT sacrificial system. The poster wanted to hear thoughts on that. There is no derailing but clarification for those misunderstood about the passover of the old and passover of the new. Clarification is necessary to move on in the discussion.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#47
What I don't think you understand, and perhaps you are a new arrival to all forum discourse, is that when you derail the OP topic, chaos ensues and no consistent line of thought is able to persist due to the investments individuals shall have in both the derail issue, and the OP.
Picture if you will, as an analogy, someone making an egg white omelet . They're whisking away and then someone comes up behind them and adds liquid milk chocolate.

Is the egg white omelet still on the menu? Or has it been obscured by milk chocolate? No. It's a mess that made the egg donor weep. She was going to sell those to that basket toting Rabbit in April. What the.....

that would be the intent actually

he has now gone into several threads, promoting Catholicism and poo pooing Christianity...or Protestants as he would call them

check his posts
 
Dec 1, 2019
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#48
that would be the intent actually

he has now gone into several threads, promoting Catholicism and poo pooing Christianity...or Protestants as he would call them

check his posts
We are all Christians here. You speak of Catholics as Lepers. I have not once belittled or disrespected any Protestant thought. Have I challenged it? Yes, and is that a problem? If it is built on solid foundation and not sand then do not fear, but engage in healthy civil dialogue.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#49
I have read the OP and was responding to question of connections between the OT sacrificial system. The poster wanted to hear thoughts on that. There is no derailing but clarification for those misunderstood about the passover of the old and passover of the new. Clarification is necessary to move on in the discussion.

my last response to you because I see what you are doing...going into threads with the same intent you have displayed here

you have not answered in honesty

I asked you point blank if you were Catholic and you would not answer

that is not being honest

I don't care if you are a holdover from Louis IVths court

I cannot abide dishonesty and you obviously are well practiced in it

you have clarified the fact you have an agenda.

big news flash: the bread and wine are not and have never become the actual body and blood of Jesus
 
Dec 1, 2019
20
6
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#50
my last response to you because I see what you are doing...going into threads with the same intent you have displayed here

you have not answered in honesty

I asked you point blank if you were Catholic and you would not answer
YES I AM!!! I am a Christian! I did not think I needed to mention that. It is called an inference.
that is not being honest

I don't care if you are a holdover from Louis IVths court

I cannot abide dishonesty and you obviously are well practiced in it

you have clarified the fact you have an agenda.

big news flash: the bread and wine are not and have never become the actual body and blood of Jesus
This is healthy dialogue. And from what scripture do you arrive at that conclusion?

I believe we can agree that the Bible is explicit and implicit.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#51
What I don't think you understand, and perhaps you are a new arrival to all forum discourse, is that when you derail the OP topic, chaos ensues and no consistent line of thought is able to persist due to the investments individuals shall have in both the derail issue, and the OP.
Picture if you will, as an analogy, someone making an egg white omelet . They're whisking away and then someone comes up behind them and adds liquid milk chocolate.

Is the egg white omelet still on the menu? Or has it been obscured by milk chocolate? No. It's a mess that made the egg donor weep. She was going to sell those to that basket toting Rabbit in April. What the.....

like I said, check his posts in other threads...especially this one

that particular post opens with this:Thank you for your reflection. As Christians we know that Jesus is God and is love. You have run into the same quandary that many Protestant Christians eventually run into

the purpose driven Catholic life

he ends that post with

Jesus' real presence in the Catholic Eucharist is what the Apostles and early Christians believed. It was not symbolic. Open your eyes to the Catholic Church and you will find the truth and consistency of God's word.
openly attempting to convert
 
Dec 1, 2019
20
6
3
#52
like I said, check his posts in other threads...especially this one

that particular post opens with this:Thank you for your reflection. As Christians we know that Jesus is God and is love. You have run into the same quandary that many Protestant Christians eventually run into

the purpose driven Catholic life

he ends that post with



openly attempting to convert
You quote my other thread posts as if to condemn me. The OP there clearly was expressing that he alone was not sufficient to interpret scripture, and that many denominations argue over things that should be consistent. He was perplexed as to why. It is very perplexing. I don't think Jesus intended that at all. Stop hating the Catholic Church. I was inviting him to investigate the Catholic Church on his own and come to his own conclusions, not those of his pastor.
 
Dec 1, 2019
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#53
Now 7, you made a claim saying the bread and wine do not become Jesus' body and blood. I asked you to provide your scripture that leads you to that conclusion. Do not make claims without your reasoning. Let us establish mutual understanding to engage in healthy exchange of ideas.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#54
Now 7, you made a claim saying the bread and wine do not become Jesus' body and blood. I asked you to provide your scripture that leads you to that conclusion. Do not make claims without your reasoning. Let us establish mutual understanding to engage in healthy exchange of ideas.
The bread and wine never were Christ's body and blood. Come on - don't be silly. They were emblems representing His blood and body by which we remember the sacrifice He made for each one of us.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#55
Now 7, you made a claim saying the bread and wine do not become Jesus' body and blood. I asked you to provide your scripture that leads you to that conclusion. Do not make claims without your reasoning. Let us establish mutual understanding to engage in healthy exchange of ideas.
many Christians were martyred over that issue.
They were REQUIRED to bow and worship the emblems.....or burn.
They said "we can not for conscious sake."
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
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#56
In the ot when one sinned,they had to offer an animal for their sin offering. It had to die. It had to die because of my sin.
I had to go get an animal or offer one of my own.
I had to lead it to the temple,present it for inspection (as Jesus was inspected by the Jews and inspected by the roman whip),and then I would cut the throat of that innocent animal.
The priest didn't kill it I did.

That is sin's requirement....innocent blood

The horrors of sin.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
#57
Here are the men I quoted and no they didn't live before Christ. It is clear you didn't expand my response to read it, you just responded.

“There is a boy here who has five barley loaves and two fish; but what good are these for so many.” – St. Andrew the Apostle, 1st century A.D.

“But let no one eat or drink of the Eucharist except those who have been baptized into the name of the Lord, for the Lord has also spoken concerning this: ‘Do not give what is holy to dogs.’” – The Didache, late 1st century A.D

“Only that Eucharist which is under the authority of the bishop (or whomever he himself designates) is to be considered valid. Wherever the bishop appears, there let the congregation be; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” – St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Smyrnaeans, A.D. 107-110

“For we do not receive these things as common bread nor common drink; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Savior having been incarnate by God’s logos took both flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have been taught that the food eucharistized through the word of prayer that is from Him, from which our blood and flesh are nourished by transformation, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who became incarnate. – St. Justin Martyr, First Apology, A.D. 151-155

“For as the bread, which is produced from the earth, when it receives the invocation of God, is no longer common bread, but the Eucharist, consisting of two realities, earthly and heavenly; so also our bodies, when they receive the Eucharist, are no longer corruptible, having the hope of the resurrection to eternity.” – St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies, A.D. 177-183
“We give thanks to the Creator of all, and, along with thanksgiving and prayer for the blessings we have received, we also eat the bread presented to us; and this bread becomes by prayer a sacred body, which sanctifies those who sincerely partake of it.” – Origen, Against Celsus, A.D. 248

“The bread and the wine of the Eucharist before the holy invocation of the adorable Trinity were simple bread and wine, but the invocation having been made, the bread becomes the body of Christ and the wine the blood of Christ.” – St. Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, A.D. 348-350
“You will see the Levites bringing the loaves and a cup of wine, and placing them on the table. So long as the prayers and invocations have not yet been made, it is mere bread and a mere cup. But when the great and wonderous prayers have been recited, then the bread becomes the body and the cup the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ….When the great prayers and holy supplications are sent up, the Word descends on the bread and the cup, and it becomes His body. – St. Athanasius of Alexandria, Sermon to the Newly Baptized, A.D. 373
“Now we, as often as we receive the Sacramental Elements, which by the mysterious efficacy of holy prayer are transformed into the Flesh and the Blood, ‘do show the Lord’s Death.’” – St. Ambrose of Milan, On the Christian Faith, A.D. 378-379
“It is not man that causes the things offered to become the Body and Blood of Christ, but he who was crucified for us, Christ himself. The priest, in the role of Christ, pronounces these words, but their power and grace are God’s. ‘This is my body,’ he says. This word transforms the things offered. – St. John Chrysostom, Against the Judaizers, A.D. 386-387

“How was Christ carried in His Own Hands? Because when He commended His Own Body and Blood, He took into His Hands that which the faithful know; and in like manner carried Himself, when He said, ‘This is My Body.’” – St. Augustine, Exposition on the Psalms, A.D. 396-420

“He did not say, ‘This is the symbol of My Body, and this, of My Blood,’ but, what is set before us, but that it is transformed by means of the Eucharistic action into Flesh and Blood.” – St.Theodore of Mopsuestia, Commentary on Matthew, A.D. 400-415

“For when the Lord says, ‘unless you have eaten the flesh of the Son of Man, and drunk His blood, you will not have life in you,’ you ought so to be partakers at the Holy Table, as to have no doubt whatever concerning the reality of Christ’s Body and Blood.” – St. Leo the Great, Sermon 91, A.D. mid-5th century
Amount of Bible verses: 0

Amount of Church fathers: TON

The problem with the church fathers is: THEM FOLKS was all over the place in their teachings. I have read A TON of them and they dont even agree amongst themselves and some of them got some WILD IDEAS.
WHY? Because they were BUSY with things like persecution, not having ALL the books of the Bible available in the way we do it. We can even bounce around in our bibles with chapter and verse numbers we dont even KNOW how blessed we are to have the bible. Thats why we got the advantage that the church fathers didnt have.

PRACTICAL WAY to see this: Pick up ANY bible commentary from the 1900s and compare it to homilies of St. Chrysostom for example, and you can EASILY see that the current ones are more "orderly" and they got LESS tradition.

Many of the church fathers converted from their high class greek philosophy and BROUGHT some of the baggage with them, SUCH AS mr Justin and Augustine the top two guys I can think of!

This aint me saying I dont respect them, I DO, a great deal, but I still SINCERELY believe they was wrong on many things.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#58
the detractor is no longer a new member

he is now an old member

ie: left the building
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#59
many Christians were martyred over that issue.
They were REQUIRED to bow and worship the emblems.....or burn.
They said "we can not for conscious sake."

it's a demonic religion
 

TooFastTurtle

Active member
Apr 10, 2019
460
247
43
#60
yeah yeah he knows about the Calvin conundrum and don't we all

actually though, I did not actually mean the op to be an all in one anything

I really wanted to present and discuss via myself and anyone else, the absolute MUST for understanding what scripture presents and how the blood of Christ is either sufficient or not

I am sure you know what I think...but I could be wrong here, but it seems to me this is a topic that I have not seen the redeemed reformed bring up?

you cannot refute the truth of scripture with regards to proper comprehension by inserting regenerated prior to conversion

not if you 'get' what was really sacrificed

further, there are a few folk in this forum (relatively new I think) that refuse to think that God turned His face from His Son because Jesus was sinless.....which amounts to Jesus bore our sins but God the Father was not seeing that...talk about confusedided o_O

totally...TOTALLY...dismissing the facts of the crucifixion and the fact that it was BECAUSE He was sinless that He could take our place and equally dismissive of the fact that He became sin for us....and died with those sins upon him

now if a person cannot understand that...or prefer to state that you will not believe that...I gotta ask....then why did God turn away?
If you read my earlier messages you see my tone when discussing calvinism has gone from mild and indifferent to very much against it. I did not understand the consequences of believing in calvinism because to be quite frank, I did not realize how many of them were cessationists. I knew of the TULIP but I was not aware of what it does to people believing it, how it forms their attitudes and the damage it does to evangelism, no matter how much they deny it. I do not see many calvinists walking around but they are recently gaining a large online following, one thing I would encourage everyone to pay attention to: We Christians are recruiting lost souls from the kingdom of darkness to kingdom of God. Calvinists many times are recruiting other Christians. That is why most will say "I wasn't a calvinist when I became a Christian"

If someone in my fellowship was trying to preach calvinism in the Church or try to persuade others to it, I would take action against it and I encourage everyone else to do the same. We cannot afford to be spoiled by philosophy, once you swallow that, you will start to question "Am I elect?" "Am I truly saved?" it truly opens a can of worms.

If you are a paid subscriber here, and wish to start a conversation with me about the rapture I would welcome it, I ask this because I remember you have linked something from Dave Hunt and he was also a believer in the pre-trib rapture. If you do not wish to start the conversation, I can explain it to you on the way up. ;) I believe if we discuss it back and forth you would see it