Abide in Christ
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1. If God causes one to obey/keep His commandment, it is no longer a commandment
2. A commandment leads to consequences; those that obey are rewarded and those that don't are punished. God can not cause some to obey so that He can reward them and punish those that He did not cause to obey, for disobeying. This is corruption and God forbid. You can not associate such things to a righteous judge.
2. A commandment leads to consequences; those that obey are rewarded and those that don't are punished. God can not cause some to obey so that He can reward them and punish those that He did not cause to obey, for disobeying. This is corruption and God forbid. You can not associate such things to a righteous judge.
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How does it no longer become a commandment just because God HAS TO be the Power in you in order for you to do it?
Romans 9:14-18
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Why is scripture so difficult?
It seems so clear to me. Its not difficult language. The concepts are not difficult.
How can you possibly reconcile what you believe with actual scripture?
Romans 9:14-18
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Why is scripture so difficult?
It seems so clear to me. Its not difficult language. The concepts are not difficult.
How can you possibly reconcile what you believe with actual scripture?
A command is a directive from one with authority to a subordinate. The authority doesn't cause the subordinate to obey its command and then reward it for obedience. The authority likewise, can not punish those it did not cause to obey and be a righteous judge.
Abraham was given a directive to offer his son as a sacrifice; He obeyed and was called God's friend. God did not cause him to obey.
Even Jonah; it is the consequences of disobedience that made him change his mind and obey God, otherwise, it is clear that obedience and disobedience is ones own choice.
The verses in Romans are true but they are talking of something else.
Now, i would like to know from you:
Q. Do you believe God causes some people to believe and obey and gives them eternal life while He punishes harshly those He did not cause to believe and obey?
Abraham was given a directive to offer his son as a sacrifice; He obeyed and was called God's friend. God did not cause him to obey.
Even Jonah; it is the consequences of disobedience that made him change his mind and obey God, otherwise, it is clear that obedience and disobedience is ones own choice.
The verses in Romans are true but they are talking of something else.
Now, i would like to know from you:
Q. Do you believe God causes some people to believe and obey and gives them eternal life while He punishes harshly those He did not cause to believe and obey?
God strengthening the believer in time of need is not the same as God "causing" some people to believe / obey.
God works within all born again believers. And yet, believers are not perfect. Not because God is not working within. When the believer sins, it is because he/she is drawn away from God to follow the lusts of the flesh.
At end of this earth, some people will be cast into the lake of fire. The reason they are cast into the lake of fire is not because God "punishes harshly those He did not cause to believe and obey". Those who are cast into the lake of fire have rejected God at every turn during their lifetime ... and they will not be able to accuse God of what you claim.
God works within all born again believers. And yet, believers are not perfect. Not because God is not working within. When the believer sins, it is because he/she is drawn away from God to follow the lusts of the flesh.
At end of this earth, some people will be cast into the lake of fire. The reason they are cast into the lake of fire is not because God "punishes harshly those He did not cause to believe and obey". Those who are cast into the lake of fire have rejected God at every turn during their lifetime ... and they will not be able to accuse God of what you claim.
It is not about accepting or rejecting God but abiding by God's love. Abiding by God's love means obeying God's command. Obeying God's command is loving one another. The one that loves has fulfilled all the requirements. The one who does not love does not abide by God's love and therefore judgement remains on them.
Nope.
Recap'
1. A command is to be obeyed.
2. God does not cause some people to obey His commands so that He rewards them and harshly punish those He did not cause to obey His commands for not obeying His commands. There's nothing righteous about this and the Bible doesn't and will never paint God is such a manner.
Recap'
1. A command is to be obeyed.
2. God does not cause some people to obey His commands so that He rewards them and harshly punish those He did not cause to obey His commands for not obeying His commands. There's nothing righteous about this and the Bible doesn't and will never paint God is such a manner.
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Yes.
But there is no way a person can obey commands until they are GIVEN the power to do so. By God.
I guess you didn't read the scripture I showed you. Maybe if you read it again you will stop arguing with scripture. Probably not, is my guess but just continue in your own philosophy. Let me know which part you don't understand.
Romans 9:14-16
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Doesn't the potter have power over the clay?
To make one vessel to honor and another to dishonor?
Apparently not, according to Noose. It is the clay that has power over the potter. The clay determines what is righteousness and what is not. The clay determines whether it will be made into a vessel to honor or a vessel to dishonor.
Exactly opposite of what scripture says.
We don't MAKE God give us the Holy Spirit. He gives us the Holy Spirit as His Gift by His Choice. Do you want the Holy Spirit? It is God who has given you that desire.
Do you know people who do not want to have anything to do with the Holy Spirit (God forbid)? It is because God has not chosen them to receive His Gift.
Do I know why or how God Chooses? No. I don't have any idea. None of us deserve His Gift. All we can do is be grateful and marvel.
But there is no way a person can obey commands until they are GIVEN the power to do so. By God.
I guess you didn't read the scripture I showed you. Maybe if you read it again you will stop arguing with scripture. Probably not, is my guess but just continue in your own philosophy. Let me know which part you don't understand.
Romans 9:14-16
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Doesn't the potter have power over the clay?
To make one vessel to honor and another to dishonor?
Apparently not, according to Noose. It is the clay that has power over the potter. The clay determines what is righteousness and what is not. The clay determines whether it will be made into a vessel to honor or a vessel to dishonor.
Exactly opposite of what scripture says.
We don't MAKE God give us the Holy Spirit. He gives us the Holy Spirit as His Gift by His Choice. Do you want the Holy Spirit? It is God who has given you that desire.
Do you know people who do not want to have anything to do with the Holy Spirit (God forbid)? It is because God has not chosen them to receive His Gift.
Do I know why or how God Chooses? No. I don't have any idea. None of us deserve His Gift. All we can do is be grateful and marvel.
Ezek 18: 20The soul who sins is the one who will die. A son will not bear the iniquity of the father, and a father will not bear the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will fall upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked man will fall upon him. 21But if the wicked man turns from all the sins he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die.
22None of the transgressions he has committed will be held against him. Because of the righteousness he has practiced, he will live. 23Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Lord GOD. Wouldn't I prefer that he turn from his ways and live?
24But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and practices iniquity, committing the same abominations as the wicked, will he live? None of the righteous acts he did will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness and sin he has committed, he will die.
22None of the transgressions he has committed will be held against him. Because of the righteousness he has practiced, he will live. 23Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Lord GOD. Wouldn't I prefer that he turn from his ways and live?
24But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and practices iniquity, committing the same abominations as the wicked, will he live? None of the righteous acts he did will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness and sin he has committed, he will die.
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Ezekiel 18:29 - But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right? But the house of Israel says, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right?
Ezekiel 33:13 - When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his OWN righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. Did you read that? "If he trusts in his OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS." This is the heart of the matter here. This is describing a righteousness which is by the law rather than that which is by faith.
*The New Testament states in Romans 10:3 - "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that BELIEVES.
As James Fawcett Brown points out - righteous--one apparently such; as in Matthew 9:13, "I came not to call the righteous," that is, those who fancy themselves righteous. First please notice the underlined words "his righteousness" meaning that the "righteous" turns from his righteousness. That is his OWN righteousness.
Ezekiel 33:13 - When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his OWN righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. Did you read that? "If he trusts in his OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS." This is the heart of the matter here. This is describing a righteousness which is by the law rather than that which is by faith.
*The New Testament states in Romans 10:3 - "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that BELIEVES.
As James Fawcett Brown points out - righteous--one apparently such; as in Matthew 9:13, "I came not to call the righteous," that is, those who fancy themselves righteous. First please notice the underlined words "his righteousness" meaning that the "righteous" turns from his righteousness. That is his OWN righteousness.
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Does not cancel Ezek 18 and no one is talking of their own righteousness but obedience to God.
1. Obedience to God is righteousness and is not someone's own righteousness
2. God does not cause some people to obey Him so that He rewards them and punish those He did not cause to obey Him for disobedience. Case in point, Adam.
1. Obedience to God is righteousness and is not someone's own righteousness
2. God does not cause some people to obey Him so that He rewards them and punish those He did not cause to obey Him for disobedience. Case in point, Adam.
I properly harmonized Ezekiel 18:29 and Ezekiel 33:13 with Romans 10:4 and Matthew 9:13. In Ezekiel 18:31, we read - Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live! That doesn't sound like "saved" and truly "righteous" to me and neither does "trusts in his OWN righteousness."
Ezekiel 18:24 - But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.
Again, this is describing a righteousness which is by the law rather than that which is by faith. (old testament/old covenant)
Ezekiel 33:13 - When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his OWN righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die.
*Notice the similar wording in both passages of scripture and in Ezekiel 33:13, we see the very HEART of the problem -- trusts in his OWN righteousness.
Ezekiel 18:24 - But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.
Again, this is describing a righteousness which is by the law rather than that which is by faith. (old testament/old covenant)
Ezekiel 33:13 - When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his OWN righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die.
*Notice the similar wording in both passages of scripture and in Ezekiel 33:13, we see the very HEART of the problem -- trusts in his OWN righteousness.
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1. It is not about 'what it sounds like to you' or what you think, it is what the Lord says.
2. There's no 'righteousness of the law' and righteousness of the new covenant, the one that God considers righteous is just righteous.
Whether old or new covenant, the righteousness is upon the righteous and the wickedness is upon the wicked (Ezek 18)
3. In all those passages, God is not describing any particular person; it is just a true saying with no particular timeline that if a wicked person turns away from wickedness, they shall surely live whether in the old or new covenant, doesn't matter. God does not say He will cause them to turn away from wickedness, it is their choice and the opposite is equally true. God even says, it is not His desire that the wicked perish but it is His desire that they turn way from wickedness and live.
2. There's no 'righteousness of the law' and righteousness of the new covenant, the one that God considers righteous is just righteous.
Whether old or new covenant, the righteousness is upon the righteous and the wickedness is upon the wicked (Ezek 18)
3. In all those passages, God is not describing any particular person; it is just a true saying with no particular timeline that if a wicked person turns away from wickedness, they shall surely live whether in the old or new covenant, doesn't matter. God does not say He will cause them to turn away from wickedness, it is their choice and the opposite is equally true. God even says, it is not His desire that the wicked perish but it is His desire that they turn way from wickedness and live.
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Romans 10:3 - "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that BELIEVES.
*Faith is accounted as righteousness and obedience which follows is works. (Romans 4:2-6)
*Faith is accounted as righteousness and obedience which follows is works. (Romans 4:2-6)
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