A question about adultery

[JohnDB]

that doesnt make any sense.

sorry.

If you look in the beginning of Matthew in the KJV Joseph was going to "put away" Mary privately so she could marry whomever she had cheated on him with but she would still be responsible for the sin of adultery when she married whomever.....but the Angel talked Joseph out of doing so.

"Putting Away" is not a divorce. And even though Israelite customs had several stages/levels of marriage until fully married, Mary was still married to Joseph (unconsumated....we tend to call it "engaged")

However,
Women could not access the courts or initiate a divorce. If a man divorced a woman he had to give his divorced wife the dowry her father had given him. (Usually a big chunk of money)

As a result of various circumstances, Jewish men would skip the divorce but "put away" a wife by just kicking her out of the house. He was responsible for giving her a very small amount of food and clothing....but it was so small that walking to him to collect was not worthwhile.

Jewish men were infamous for then taking advantage of these put away wives as they could have plural wives and be inside the Law.

 

[CS1]

I've looked very carefully at this passage in Greek AND Aramaic (what words He used precisely)

The KJV has it in English the most accurately for an imprecise translation to begin with.

The ONLY sin that is unforgivable is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit; which again is also not seeking forgiveness to begin with.

God forgives sin Completely....as if it never happened. Divorce is not a partially forgiven sin. (Which is your claim)

Either God forgives completely (as He has said) or God is a liar. I'll let you try to wiggle out of this one. It's a binary choice....not a "kinda" or "sort of but only if..."
When we ask for forgiveness it's gone, removed from us as far as the East is from the West or God has lied. I refuse to believe God has lied.

First, I never said Adultery is "partially forgiven sin". Stop lying. You can not show me where I said that.

 

[CS1]

If you look in the beginning of Matthew in the KJV Joseph was going to "put away" Mary privately so she could marry whomever she had cheated on him with but she would still be responsible for the sin of adultery when she married whomever.....but the Angel talked Joseph out of doing so.

"Putting Away" is not a divorce. And even though Israelite customs had several stages/levels of marriage until fully married, Mary was still married to Joseph (unconsumated....we tend to call it "engaged")

However,
Women could not access the courts or initiate a divorce. If a man divorced a woman he had to give his divorced wife the dowry her father had given him. (Usually a big chunk of money)

As a result of various circumstances, Jewish men would skip the divorce but "put away" a wife by just kicking her out of the house. He was responsible for giving her a very small amount of food and clothing....but it was so small that walking to him to collect was not worthwhile.

Jewish men were infamous for then taking advantage of these put-away wives as they could have plural wives and be inside the Law.

Joseph wanted to do it quietly so she would not be stoned.

 

[JohnDB]

that doesnt make any sense.

sorry.

Part 2

Ok,
So Jewish men that came across a single woman with no dowry or family was basically prey for the Pharisees. These guys would marry them and then divorce them at will...sometimes as part of a business deal with her next husband already lined up for her. It wasn't like a woman could get a regular job.

There often were women that the Pharisees suspected were "put away wives" but since they had no "real" proof they married and divorced them anyway. (It's not like they really investigated either)

This was part of what Jesus was addressing as well. It was a huge scandal.

Then there was two other highest order Rabbi. One said you could divorce your wife if she burned a pot of beans and the other said only if she committed adultery and she wasn't taken out and stoned because you were too soft hearted.
(Remember John 8).

The woman in John 8 is likely a situation where this woman was a put away wife that got remarried even though she wasn't divorced. The man likely claimed no knowledge of her being already married and wanted her stoned so he himself was not stoned to death.

Which the guys who brought the woman to Jesus were also likely guilty of marrying and divorcing put away wives themselves....which He said to them "The first without sin can cast the first stone" when they themselves had or currently were likely guilty of marrying a put away wife.

The reason Jesus gave for divorce wasn't adultery in the same sense as we commonly think but actually was Spiritual Adultery. Meaning in today's terms of not acting in a Christian fashion by leading a lifestyle inconsistent with Christian values. Which includes such things as abuse, adultery, alcoholism, recreational chemical dependency , and etc.

 

[JohnDB]

First, I never said Adultery is "partially forgiven sin". Stop lying. You can not show me where I said that.

Either a divorce is completely forgotten and forgiven by God or it is not....

Make up your mind.

If divorce and remarriage is a sin then God does not completely forgive.

You can't have it both ways.

 

[JohnDB]

Joseph wanted to do it quietly so she would not be stoned.

I put up the second part to the explanation to Lanolin and it fully explains my position. READ IT AND LEARN

Jesus told the Gospel....AKA Good news.
He didn't come around to install a new legalistic type of worship surrounding marriage.

 

[Gideon300]

I think GOD shows much more grace than many in the church would. Such as in Exodus 22:16-17 and Deuteronomy 22:28-29.

For sure, as I found out the hard way.

 

[Gideon300]

I think you should do some research on how God punished David severely---2 Samuel 12

God brought 3 Judgments against David ------

Nathan Rebukes David
12 The Lord sent Nathan to David.

Murder ----You killed him with the sword of the Ammonites. 10 Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house-----David's whole household will never have peace ----

Adultary ------11 “This is what the Lord says: ‘Out of your own household I am going to bring calamity on you. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will sleep with your wives in broad daylight.

Judgment 3 ---
13 Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.”

Nathan replied, “The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. 14 But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for[a] the Lord, the son born to you will die.”

NOTICE HERE ____God had already made a point of forgiving David of His sins ----so he could't go back on His Word --so God took the Son -----as judgment for a lie for a lie -------pretty harsh judgment I say -----David paid a hefty price for all he did against God ------

God as per scripture does not show any Favoritism to anyone -----God love all His creation the same and He judges all who disobey Him and His word ------

View attachment 254617

I know the sorry tale well enough. I also know that the Law of Moses stipulates death as punishment for both murder and adultery. The principle of sowing and reaping still applies. I don't know why Absolom rebelled against David. Possibly he held his father in contempt for commiting such sins. David also failed to discipline his son. There are countless families today wondering why their kids are rebellious jail bait. I can tell them, if they would listen.

 

[Diakonos]

Jesus called divorce and remarriage adultery, but never called for any punishment.

In our current context, we are not under the Law of Moses. Only moral laws continue to apply to all people in all generations.

In Jesus' time, He didn't need to call for any punishment because the Law already did.

 

[CS1]

Either a divorce is completely forgotten and forgiven by God or it is not....

Make up your mind.

If divorce and remarriage is a sin then God does not completely forgive.

You can't have it both ways.

First off, God hates divorce, and Jesus said it was not that way from the beginning.
Also, King David is a good example.

He was married and committed adultery and had the husband murdered to cover the pregnancy. This was a great sin as Nathan the Prophet told King David. David said I have sinned against the Lord. And David was forgiven, yet the child died. BUt David was forgiven, yet He lost his Kingdom, BUT David was forgiven. The point is YES Sin can be forgiven but there is a consequence for sinning and still be forgiven.

Is divorce a sin? Yes, it is can it be forgiven yes it can. Are there consequences for the sin yes there are.

 

[CS1]

I put up the second part to the explanation to Lanolin and it fully explains my position. READ IT AND LEARN

Jesus told the Gospel....AKA Good news.
He didn't come around to install a new legalistic type of worship surrounding marriage.

sorry you too arrogant for

 

[timemeddler]

pretty obvious the reason david didn't recieve the death penalty the law required, same reason big wig politicians get away with stuff normal people don't, man's enforcement of rules is prone to being corrupt.

 

[CS1]

pretty obvious the reason david didn't recieve the death penalty the law required, same reason big wig politicians get away with stuff normal people don't, man's enforcement of rules is prone to being corrupt.

David did not get away with it LOL. The Word God clearly shows much.

He lost his son
lost the kingdom
had his son turn against him and divided the kingdom.

 

[JohnB]

In our current context, we are not under the Law of Moses. Only moral laws continue to apply to all people in all generations.

In Jesus' time, He didn't need to call for any punishment because the Law already did.

I have heard some say, when the woman was caught in adultery, if they had brought out the man too, Jesus would have applied the law to both of them.

 

[JohnB]

For sure, as I found out the hard way.

This is why I would get so frustrated with Pastors and Christians who took verses out of context and hammered single Christians with them about sex. When Jesus was talking about looking at a woman and having thoughts of lust, being adultery, he was talking about lusting after another man's wife. The Greek word for lust means to have a consuming desire for another man's wife. He wasn't talking about a single person having a sex drive.

When Paul said to Timothy to flee youthful lust, it was not about sex. Read the verses, he was talking about getting into useless arguments. Which as youth, we do often and get sidetracked.

 

[JohnDB]

First off, God hates divorce, and Jesus said it was not that way from the beginning.
Also, King David is a good example.

He was married and committed adultery and had the husband murdered to cover the pregnancy. This was a great sin as Nathan the Prophet told King David. David said I have sinned against the Lord. And David was forgiven, yet the child died. BUt David was forgiven, yet He lost his Kingdom, BUT David was forgiven. The point is YES Sin can be forgiven but there is a consequence for sinning and still be forgiven.

Is divorce a sin? Yes, it is can it be forgiven yes it can. Are there consequences for the sin yes there are.

David took his friend's (Uriah's) wife....the classic and obvious adultery. But David already had many wives at this point and gained more as time went on.

The question is Divorce and remarriage to another being a sin or not. And it is not. Your argument is a red herring on this point.

the Malachi passage that you have misquoted (deliberately or in ignorance) has a fuller context that discusses exactly and completely the practice of putting away a wife. The passage in total is where God calls it violence and bloodshed. Where God does indeed hate divorce He hates the practice of putting away more; which is abuse.

sorry you too arrogant for

Now you go to name calling? Childish behavior because you are losing the argument? I, and others, expect better behavior than this. Do some repentance and do better before you condemn people.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Nipped it in the bud...I actually laughed out loud. Were you channeling your inner Barney Fife?

haha that does happen to be my favorite television character ever , so maybe I was subconsciously

 

[CS1]

The law says the punishment for adultery is death. Moses gave reasons for divorce and remarriage. Jesus said "It was because of the hardiness of your hearts" Jesus called divorce and remarriage adultery, but never called for any punishment. Are there different types of adultery. It seems the two are treated differently.

Yes there are differences

Adultery is a moral sin listed in the 10.

Yet when the world does it that is one thing.

But when the Church does it, it's another thing.

Both are sins, yet the unsaved are already condemned BUT the church is supposed to be saved.


Pastors divorce and remarry is a forgivable thing yet are they still to Pastor?
1 Corinthians 7:10-11

7:10 To the married I give this command—not I, but the Lord—a wife should not divorce a husband 11 (but if she does, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband), and a husband should not divorce his wife.


Now Jesus said :
7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.



Matthew 19:9
19:9 Now I say to you that whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another commits adultery.”


Jesus raised the moral relevance of Marriage and Dealt with the real issue :

1. Divorce was not inn the beginning until the Law of Moses.
2. Jesus said the issue is with your Heart filled with adultery and you desire what is not yours
3. Those who have thoughts and lust in the heart for another mans wife are committing adultery


The world is lost and do what the world does.


The church is to much like the world and doing what the world does. Both are sin. Both can be forgiven. Both have serious consequences. Just ask one who has been divorced and remarried.


Pastors, have not defended the family and that is why we have LGBTQ and gay marriage today. We have played with sin. and made excuses for it.

70 % of the church have been divorced and remarried. That was not how it is suppose to be. That trend has slowed down that God.

the issue today is perversion in the hearts of Pastors and teachers. Yes those who have divorced and remarried can be forgiven.

Yet there is serious repercussions.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

This is why I would get so frustrated with Pastors and Christians who took verses out of context and hammered single Christians with them about sex. When Jesus was talking about looking at a woman and having thoughts of lust, being adultery, he was talking about lusting after another man's wife. The Greek word for lust means to have a consuming desire for another man's wife. He wasn't talking about a single person having a sex drive.

When Paul said to Timothy to flee youthful lust, it was not about sex. Read the verses, he was talking about getting into useless arguments. Which as youth, we do often and get sidetracked.

Dude, you need to get a Wife!
Any time I see one of your threads it's about Marriage, Sex, and Sins related to both.

I Pray, Right Now, God, send this man a Good Woman, a Woman who loves You, First and foremost, God, a Woman, who will keep this person busy enough to go and enjoy life instead of wondering why he didn't ever live it.

In Your Precious Holy Name, Jesus, Let this matter be done!

Amen!

 

[JohnB]

Dude, you need to get a Wife!
Any time I see one of your threads it's about Marriage, Sex, and Sins related to both.

I Pray, Right Now, God, send this man a Good Woman, a Woman who loves You, First and foremost, God, a Woman, who will keep this person busy enough to go and enjoy life instead of wondering why he didn't ever live it.

In Your Precious Holy Name, Jesus, Let this matter be done!

Amen!

I don't want Christians to fall into the same trap I did. The peak time for your sexual desires are from your late teens to early 30's, sometimes 40's. Once these desires lessen, they don't come back. This was GOD's plan to bring couples together. This is why at the time of Jesus people married young, to control those desires. You chose who you marry, make a wise choice. Do not believe Pastors who tell you to wait on GOD's choice. GOD does not choose for you.