A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

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VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#1,421
Oct 14, 2013
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#1,421
Waggles said:
So what!!
When the Lord has spoken audibly to me it is in English. When God speaks to his church in the gifts of interpretation and
prophecy it is in English.
But none of this discounts the fundamental truth that true worshippers shall speak in tongues: that is praying IN the
Holy Spirit directly to God.
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Not hardly, in my opinion, it is Mindless Ecstatic Babbling, and JESUS SAID DO NOT PRAY LIKE THAT.

So that is why I do not like to debate tongues, IT ALWAYS END I A STALEMATE WITH MOST OF YOU JUST GETTING MAD.

THE TITLE, made it PLAIN that this study was for Non-Charismatics, to encourage them. No unbelieving Jews hearing in their own dialektos, specifically the mighty works of GOD, it is not the Genuine TONGUES to me. Bye Now.
 
Endoscopy

Endoscopy

Senior Member
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Oct 13, 2017
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#1,422
VCO said:
He speaks to me all the time THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES, and VERY FREQUENTLY IN MY HEART, Once in a THOUGHT that I knew came from HIM, and on two occasions He Spoke to me an VERY audible voice that was like it was BOOMING, and the second time HE HAD TO YELL AT ME in that SAME booming voice, to pickup that hitch hikers, and I HIT THE BRAKES INSTANTLY without think. AND WITH ALL FOUR WHEELS SCREAMING and SMOKING slid to a stop, shaking like a leaf.

GUESS WHAT, EVERY TIME HE SPOKE TO ME, IT WAS IN ENGLISH.

You have fallen for the False Doctrine of imitation tongues.
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There are people faking it but also it is done for real. One test had a person speak to a tape recorder. It was then taken several places and played in charismatic congregations. Every time those hearing it said the same thing about what the speaker was saying. If you do not understand what is being said ask if any understand what is said. Biblically a person only speaks when there is some who will understand. Usually it is a real language!!
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#1,423
Oct 14, 2013
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#1,423
Endoscopy said:
There are people faking it but also it is done for real. One test had a person speak to a tape recorder. It was then taken several places and played in charismatic congregations. Every time those hearing it said the same thing about what the speaker was saying. If you do not understand what is being said ask if any understand what is said. Biblically a person only speaks when there is some who will understand. Usually it is a real language!!
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Now that is a good rule, it eliminate 90 percent of the Imitation tongues.

So someone has rewritten the rules ? ? ?

My reaction to a modern day tongues speaker:

1556238417883.jpeg
 
G

GtrPkr

Guest
#1,424
#1,424
Lol..... Y'all are still at this? You would think that the Spirit would have intervened by now. I think "With God all things are possible" sums it up nicely. Why don't we all just agree to pray for God's wisdom and guidance and see what language he answers in? :)
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#1,425
Oct 14, 2013
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#1,425
GtrPkr said:
Lol..... Y'all are still at this? You would think that the Spirit would have intervened by now. I think "With God all things are possible" sums it up nicely. Why don't we all just agree to pray for God's wisdom and guidance and see what language he answers in? :)
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I have already prayed over the original study, and are you suggesting that I doubt HIS answer ? ? ?

This is why I put at the top: I DO NOT WANT A DEBATE ON THIS SUBJECT
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#1,427
Oct 14, 2013
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#1,427
I DO NOT WANT A DEBATE ON THIS SUBJECT


I guess some people cannot understand why when GOD tells you that you have the TRUTH,

IT IS NOT DEBATABLE, and I know you are not one of those people.
 
G

GtrPkr

Guest
#1,428
#1,428
A little agreed-upon prayer wouldn't hurt though... :)
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#1,429
#1,429
VCO said:
I DO NOT WANT A DEBATE ON THIS SUBJECT


I guess some people cannot understand why when GOD tells you that you have the TRUTH,

IT IS NOT DEBATABLE, and I know you are not one of those people.
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well sure it is

you are not God and this is a discussion forum :rolleyes:

long before and long after you, people will pray and receive another answer

none of that matters to you of course which some of us, with the freedom to think for ourselves outside of your diatribe and attempt at adding to God's word by stating God told you, find disconcerting to say the least

dude...if no one has pointed it out to you before, you are saying you speak for God

many would consider that you are referring to yourself as a prophet

now you disagree because God told you different.

but, and that's a big but, you would have to consider yourself in the office of a prophet to speak with the authority you say you have from God

I certainly would not confirm that office for you though

I suppose the irony of that is lost on you though :whistle:
 
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GtrPkr

Guest
#1,430
#1,430
7seasrekeyed said:
well sure it is

you are not God and this is a discussion forum :rolleyes:

long before and long after you, people will pray and receive another answer

none of that matters to you of course which some of us, with the freedom to think for ourselves outside of your diatribe and attempt at adding to God's word by stating God told you, find disconcerting to say the least

dude...if no one has pointed it out to you before, you are saying you speak for God

many would consider that you are referring to yourself as a prophet

now you disagree because God told you different.

but, and that's a big but, you would have to consider yourself in the office of a prophet to speak with the authority you say you have from God

I certainly would not confirm that office for you though

I suppose the irony of that is lost on you though :whistle:
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Wow, you just won't quit! Even I understood that VOC believes God spoke to him. Why won't you both just agree upon a time to pray?
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#1,431
#1,431
GtrPkr said:
Wow, you just won't quit! Even I understood that VOC believes God spoke to him. Why won't you both just agree upon a time to pray?
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LOL! you sound like the alter ego of dcon but he doesn't need any help

you don't know me at all, you may be going by pm's from folks who don't like me, but you don't know me at all

perhaps you need to familiarize yourself with the rules here

it's a public site and this is a discussion/debate forum

it is not a place to say to people you don't want to discuss anything

I have no clue why you seem to labor under the impression myself or anyone else needs to pray with him but you feel free to do so

I don't care what you understood. He believes he is speaking for God...adding to the Bible

you can believe that line. I don't
 
G

GtrPkr

Guest
#1,432
#1,432
7seasrekeyed said:
LOL! you sound like the alter ego of dcon but he doesn't need any help

you don't know me at all, you may be going by pm's from folks who don't like me, but you don't know me at all

perhaps you need to familiarize yourself with the rules here

it's a public site and this is a discussion/debate forum

it is not a place to say to people you don't want to discuss anything

I have no clue why you seem to labor under the impression myself or anyone else needs to pray with him but you feel free to do so
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do you realize that you just admitted you place more faith in your skill to debate than prayer?
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#1,435
Oct 14, 2013
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#1,435
GtrPkr said:
Wow, you just won't quit! Even I understood that VOC believes God spoke to him. Why won't you both just agree upon a time to pray?
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I do not think you understood. Doubting what GOD HAS ALREADY CONFIRMED IN MY HEART, WOULD BE TO PRAY AGAIN.

You do not Understand, what you are ASKING me to do ? ? ?


Sirach 7:14 (NRSV) {Apocrypha}
14 Do not babble in the assembly of the elders, and do not repeat yourself when you pray.

Matthew 6:7 (HCSB)
7 When you pray, don’t babble [Gk. - Battalogeo] like the idolaters, since they imagine they’ll be heard for their many words.

Matthew 6:7 (YLT)
7 `And--praying--ye may not use vain repetitions like the nations, for they think that in their much speaking they shall be heard,

1 Timothy 6:20 (ESV)
20 O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called “knowledge,”

2 Timothy 2:16 (ESV)
16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness,


AND:

John 20:27 (NRSV)
27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here and see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it in my side.
Do not doubt but believe."


James 1:6-7 (NJB)
6 But the prayer must be made with faith, and no trace of doubt, because a person who has doubts is like the waves thrown up in the sea by the buffeting of the wind.
7 That sort of person, in two minds, inconsistent in every activity, must not expect to receive anything from the Lord.
 
G

GtrPkr

Guest
#1,436
#1,436
is that to say that if your opponents here would agree to pray with you in earnest for an answer to this debate... You would refuse?
 
VCO

VCO

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GtrPkr said:
is that to say that if your opponents here would agree to pray with you in earnest for an answer to this debate... You would refuse?
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On this subject, YES. I will pray for them to have wisdom, and their eyes Opened.

That is how much I am CERTAIN that the Holy Spirit Guided me in this 6th month Study. This subject He guided me all the way through it, and their is NO DOUBT IN MY MIND AND IN MY HEART.

I have know Bible College experience, I have A.D.D., makes me prone to being distracted easily and a VERY SLOW READER, and only has a C average in High School. This means that I could not do the STUDY without the Help of JESUS and the HOLY SPIRIT. I learned IN my EARLY CHRISTIAN WALK, to Totally TRUSTED IN HIM, to give me the ABILITY to do what I could not do.

How do you think that HE took me from where I once was a Farm boy in Nebraska, and put it on my heart that HE WANTED ME IN CALIFORNIA, to start a PRISON Ministry at the END OF THE LINE, super-max Prison in California. I was the first Volunteer Protestant Chaplain that was in there. HE OPENED ALL THE DOORS to my becoming a Volunteer Protestant Chaplain, despite: NO BIBLE COLLEGE, NO EXPERIENCE, and NO IDEAL HOW TO START A PRISON MINISTRY, BUT I DID TRUST HIM TOTALLY, AND I WAS ABSOLUTELY SURE HE KNEW EVERYTHING ABOUT STARTING A PRISON MINISTRY. I was their for 9.5 years, then my wife got a job in another town that also had a super-max Prison, and I volunteered there at that Prison too, for 5.5 years until I retired from the Post Office. I AM CONFIDENT THAT HE DID IT ALL THROUGH ME, so why should I Doubt ? ? ?
 
G

GtrPkr

Guest
#1,438
#1,438
Brother I'm not asking you to doubt. I'm asking you to pray. Specifically, to pray with your brothers and sisters who are so emotionally invested in this issue that the argument will obviously never end. Think about it, if they will agree to pray WITH you instead of for you... Wouldn't that be a step in the right direction?
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
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Oct 14, 2013
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GtrPkr,

Have you seen enough of the insults that come your way, from people who think they have been baptized in the spirit, (ALSO A FALSE DEFINITION), to see through their false claims.

I wrote that original study back in the mid 80's. It has been 4 decades of insults, name calling, and all kinds of prayers against me, to no avail. And all I do is give an explanation of which most churches do not believe in the modern day tongues. There attitude, is one of the biggest reasons, why we will never believe it is the Real McCoy.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#1,440
Oct 14, 2013
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#1,440
GtrPkr said:
Brother I'm not asking you to doubt. I'm asking you to pray. Specifically, to pray with your brothers and sisters who are so emotionally invested in this issue that the argument will obviously never end. Think about it, if they will agree to pray WITH you instead of for you... Wouldn't that be a step in the right direction?
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It has been like this ever since my original study was put down on paper. Now you will understand WHY most Churches just refuse to teach the subject.

NO, they will only think they are winning. I cannot encourage false teaching.
 
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