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A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES
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am I some kind of fanatical exception or do I just happen to believe God when He tells us to search for Him with our whole heart?
you said in the other thread you do believe in the gifts...at least I thought that was what you said?
these videos, which truthfully and for the most part, I don't spend time on, are no gift to anyone
know how people are taught to recognize counterfeit money? they touch lots and lots of the real thing
frankly, I see no difference between churches who go emotionally hog wild and those that contain people stuffing the pews, hear a 'message' and then go home or out to eat. safe for another week
benny hinn this and benny hinn that. macarthur? God help him. he will face what he denied one day
the demons are laughing because Christians get their God fix from others in most cases and they are weak with no foundation and are always either looking for a word or not accepting a word
it's a grand plan and the reason the church, has become a building instead of a body
I am not dissing on you personally so much as having read most of this treatise on one man's conclusions, and all the know it alls who do not experience what some of us know, and having done so, to better understand the condition of the hearts of so many who profess faith
God help us
the truth here is that those who do speak in tongues, have tried to explain, patiently for the most part, from scripture and personal experience and we have been bullied, called names, put on ignore, reported, told to shut up and basically been treated like the dogs who licked the sores of Lazarus
and if that were not enough, the propaganda against tongues side, has turned around and said we have attacked and done the things that they have actually done
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Paul writes about everyone speaking or praying in tongues when they come together
he NEVER said it was demonic. he simply said it was not the proper practice and then explained how it would be better to use this gift in an order in which all could benefit
however, in this thread (and others in times past or current) some fanatics have said it is demonic...poked...jeered...mocked...and twisted scripture and told us it does not mean what it clearly says
is there a dunce cap big enough to fit you all? you all come under the same roof IMO
you have called names and been hurtful and condescending and at least one has pretended interest and then exposed the actual purpose in asking questions
I think you do not remember that God sees hearts. I am not your judge, but I can tell you that your behavior is degrading for those who call themselves Christians
don't bother with anymore smarmy attacks on me or calling me names. I have One who is higher than your insipid silly comments and He sees it all
I have said so many times in these forums that the personal attacks should stop
however, while you poke fun at us 'tongues talkers' you have actually illustrated the same type of over emotional behavior you say disgusts you in certain videos
whatever at this point. whatever
and let all the personally insulted report me now. so sad
he NEVER said it was demonic. he simply said it was not the proper practice and then explained how it would be better to use this gift in an order in which all could benefit
however, in this thread (and others in times past or current) some fanatics have said it is demonic...poked...jeered...mocked...and twisted scripture and told us it does not mean what it clearly says
is there a dunce cap big enough to fit you all? you all come under the same roof IMO
you have called names and been hurtful and condescending and at least one has pretended interest and then exposed the actual purpose in asking questions
I think you do not remember that God sees hearts. I am not your judge, but I can tell you that your behavior is degrading for those who call themselves Christians
don't bother with anymore smarmy attacks on me or calling me names. I have One who is higher than your insipid silly comments and He sees it all
I have said so many times in these forums that the personal attacks should stop
however, while you poke fun at us 'tongues talkers' you have actually illustrated the same type of over emotional behavior you say disgusts you in certain videos
whatever at this point. whatever
and let all the personally insulted report me now. so sad
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am I some kind of fanatical exception or do I just happen to believe God when He tells us to search for Him with our whole heart?
you said in the other thread you do believe in the gifts...at least I thought that was what you said?
these videos, which truthfully and for the most part, I don't spend time on, are no gift to anyone
know how people are taught to recognize counterfeit money? they touch lots and lots of the real thing
frankly, I see no difference between churches who go emotionally hog wild and those that contain people stuffing the pews, hear a 'message' and then go home or out to eat. safe for another week
benny hinn this and benny hinn that. macarthur? God help him. he will face what he denied one day
the demons are laughing because Christians get their God fix from others in most cases and they are weak with no foundation and are always either looking for a word or not accepting a word
it's a grand plan and the reason the church, has become a building instead of a body
I am not dissing on you personally so much as having read most of this treatise on one man's conclusions, and all the know it alls who do not experience what some of us know, and having done so, to better understand the condition of the hearts of so many who profess faith
God help us
the truth here is that those who do speak in tongues, have tried to explain, patiently for the most part, from scripture and personal experience and we have been bullied, called names, put on ignore, reported, told to shut up and basically been treated like the dogs who licked the sores of Lazarus
and if that were not enough, the propaganda against tongues side, has turned around and said we have attacked and done the things that they have actually done
you said in the other thread you do believe in the gifts...at least I thought that was what you said?
these videos, which truthfully and for the most part, I don't spend time on, are no gift to anyone
know how people are taught to recognize counterfeit money? they touch lots and lots of the real thing
frankly, I see no difference between churches who go emotionally hog wild and those that contain people stuffing the pews, hear a 'message' and then go home or out to eat. safe for another week
benny hinn this and benny hinn that. macarthur? God help him. he will face what he denied one day
the demons are laughing because Christians get their God fix from others in most cases and they are weak with no foundation and are always either looking for a word or not accepting a word
it's a grand plan and the reason the church, has become a building instead of a body
I am not dissing on you personally so much as having read most of this treatise on one man's conclusions, and all the know it alls who do not experience what some of us know, and having done so, to better understand the condition of the hearts of so many who profess faith
God help us
the truth here is that those who do speak in tongues, have tried to explain, patiently for the most part, from scripture and personal experience and we have been bullied, called names, put on ignore, reported, told to shut up and basically been treated like the dogs who licked the sores of Lazarus
and if that were not enough, the propaganda against tongues side, has turned around and said we have attacked and done the things that they have actually done
Neither the dude, nor me said anything about the gifts ceasing.
In fact, the guy goes out of his way to say the opposite, and calls himself a charismatic.
But hey. Knee-jerk reactions FEEL so good.
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so obviously what we have here is...a non-Charismatic understanding of tongues
hey! the op delivered and we can't say that about every thread
this where the name Charismatic derives from. it is not a derogatory term like some here seem to think it is
The English term charisma is from the Greek χάρισμα (khárisma), which means "favor freely given" or "gift of grace". The term and its plural χαρίσματα (charismata) derive from χάρις (charis), which means "grace".
so I will take this favor from God, freely given, in the same manner in which I have accepted his salvation, also freely given
yes freely given. only at the cost of the life of His only Son
and so many treat His precious Holy Spirit the same way. crucify Him and we want nothing to do with Him
oh don't worry. just me responding to the hate filled posts so many have contributed to this forum, regarding the gifts of God, over the years
hey! the op delivered and we can't say that about every thread
this where the name Charismatic derives from. it is not a derogatory term like some here seem to think it is
The English term charisma is from the Greek χάρισμα (khárisma), which means "favor freely given" or "gift of grace". The term and its plural χαρίσματα (charismata) derive from χάρις (charis), which means "grace".
so I will take this favor from God, freely given, in the same manner in which I have accepted his salvation, also freely given
yes freely given. only at the cost of the life of His only Son
and so many treat His precious Holy Spirit the same way. crucify Him and we want nothing to do with Him
oh don't worry. just me responding to the hate filled posts so many have contributed to this forum, regarding the gifts of God, over the years
7seas " well good then
nothing to see here
as long as you can castigate me we are all good
you didn't understand what I wrote then, but that might be ok also. it's not for everyone[/QUOTE]"
You're a complicated piece of work sister!
Your'e fine with saying, with misunderstanding, a whole bunch of negativity toward people, and then make a tiny disclaimer somewhere in the post,
**THESE STATEMENTS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT AGAINST THIS PARTICULAR POSTER**
But I'm good if your'e good.
nothing to see here
as long as you can castigate me we are all good
you didn't understand what I wrote then, but that might be ok also. it's not for everyone[/QUOTE]"
You're a complicated piece of work sister!
Your'e fine with saying, with misunderstanding, a whole bunch of negativity toward people, and then make a tiny disclaimer somewhere in the post,
**THESE STATEMENTS DON'T NECESSARILY REFLECT AGAINST THIS PARTICULAR POSTER**
But I'm good if your'e good.
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That is Wonderful Brother!!
You are indeed definitely Blessed!!
On a side note:
I have met several people who have told me, they were baptized in the Lutheran/Catholic/few other Denominations as an infant.
This has always led me to ask, "Well, as an infant, did you say to your parents, that your desire was to be baptized because you acknowledged that you are a sinner?"
I have yet to get a "Yes" on that one. But it has generally led them to rethink and then make it right. I just don't understand the priest/pastor following such a tradition. as baptizing a baby who is clueless to what is going on, and then claim the baby is saved
You are indeed definitely Blessed!!
On a side note:
I have met several people who have told me, they were baptized in the Lutheran/Catholic/few other Denominations as an infant.
This has always led me to ask, "Well, as an infant, did you say to your parents, that your desire was to be baptized because you acknowledged that you are a sinner?"
I have yet to get a "Yes" on that one. But it has generally led them to rethink and then make it right. I just don't understand the priest/pastor following such a tradition. as baptizing a baby who is clueless to what is going on, and then claim the baby is saved
You may Know this, but just in Case, I will give you a DEEPER understanding about Baptism.
Yes I was what Lutherans call baptized as an infant, I now know it was no more than dedicating that child to the LORD. But that is not what I am talking about. When we step out in OBEDIENCE to be Baptized in the Waters of a Baptistery, River, or Even A Lake, that is a Public Identification with the LORD. In particular, we are Identified with HIS Death, Burial, and Resurrection to the NEWNESS of Eternal Life. But that is NOT the ONE BAPTISM that SAVES. That happens the MOMENT we REPENT, and Receive HIM as LORD (Master) of our Lives, PURELY OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM. At that very moment the Holy Spirit, enters our hearts (human spirit), Never to Leave Us, pouring GOD's LOVE in our Hearts (Rom. 5:5), Births our Dead Human Spirit into ETERNAL LIFE, and THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE ONE THAT BAPTIZES (IMMERSES) US INTO LITERALLY THE SPIRITUAL BODY OF CHRIST. THAT IS THE ONE BAPTISM THAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT IN THIS VERSE.
1 Corinthians 12:13 (HCSB)
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
That is the BAPTISM THAT SAVES, while climbing into a Baptistery, is just an important part of our CHRISTIAN WALK WITH CHRIST, that happens after we are saved. Ideally, it should be one of our FIRST STEPS of OBEDIENCE.
I know this is yet another hotbed of Contention, but the TRUTH IS THE TRUTH.
They will want to ARGUE that Christian Water Baptism does to SAVE.
Not according to this VERSE:
1 Peter 3:20 (NCV)
20 who refused to obey God long ago in the time of Noah. God was waiting patiently for them while Noah was building the boat.
Only a few people—eight in all—were saved by water.
i think the problem is the bible itself isnt orderly but can be used like a two-sided sword to prove all you wish.
thats why every topic is so divided. you can proof predestination or free will, tongues or no tongues, God chooses or we choose, not of works or of works, water baptism required or not required, baptism in the name of the Father The Son and the Holy Spirit or name of Jesus, church is a continuation or fullfilment of israel and one people of God or israel and church are separate, rapture is pre-trib or post-trib, there is a literal millennial kingdom or there is not. God doesnt repent or God repents, salvation is easy or salvation is hard.
all the debates we have its because the bible says one thing here, another thing there and one side is using the other side, and one side is using the other.
what shall we do, brethren? the people who only had lets say one letter of paul werent confused, they didnt have the other books to jump around to, they had to stick to the context of that one book.
will there ever be a solution to this or do we have to wait for Jesus to return?
thats why every topic is so divided. you can proof predestination or free will, tongues or no tongues, God chooses or we choose, not of works or of works, water baptism required or not required, baptism in the name of the Father The Son and the Holy Spirit or name of Jesus, church is a continuation or fullfilment of israel and one people of God or israel and church are separate, rapture is pre-trib or post-trib, there is a literal millennial kingdom or there is not. God doesnt repent or God repents, salvation is easy or salvation is hard.
all the debates we have its because the bible says one thing here, another thing there and one side is using the other side, and one side is using the other.
what shall we do, brethren? the people who only had lets say one letter of paul werent confused, they didnt have the other books to jump around to, they had to stick to the context of that one book.
will there ever be a solution to this or do we have to wait for Jesus to return?
Are you referring (by the bold ^ ) to the people who originally received a letter from Paul? If so, then wouldn't that have been people who had previously "believed" the gospel [as spelled out in 1Cor15:1-4]? At least the majority of that local gathering of people who were receiving the letter? People who were holding to "the faith" ["that body of truth" as revealed in the NT following His death/resurrection]; … because it says, "wherein ye stand"
NOW YOU HAVE ARRIVED AT THE TRUTH!
Hebrews 4:12 (ESV)
12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
I learned decades ago, the BIBLE cannot be used to contradict another verse of Scripture on the Same Subject.
The Problem is people in their RUSH TO CONVICT, ignore the obvious contradictions the MAKE.
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ole-old-soul???
ole-old-soul???
sometimes maybe
but truthfully I'm not getting younger every day
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Salvation was a hard work for the father and Son. Therefore making it possible for us being yoked with Him .. ( Isaiah 53)
They gave their Spirit life in jeopardy of that work of two .It brought us the salvation of God .That work of salvation surpasses all human understanding. He gives us a living hope that will not disappoint those who do hear His word and therefore believe .
Natural man has no understanding of the things of the Spirit of God: they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I think if men jump around to show they are confused, rather than men who show they are moved by God to search out a hidden matter, according to His signified language .Then one might understand that God does not leave people as orphans with no comforter. .
Acts 17:10-12 King James Version (KJV) And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
The commandment to each individual that hears the living word of God, is to study... rightly dividing His perfect law, the Bible. And not adding or subtracting from it. This is how we can seek after His approval, or are lovingly commanded . There are many warning not to seek after the approval of men.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
God who name is jealous. He will not share the glory of work he works in us with us. We have that teaching power in us power in us but are never to assume it could be of us. One is our mediator not see, our father in heaven . He gives us comforting reminders as to our source of new faith ( and brings all things to your remembrance)
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26
They gave their Spirit life in jeopardy of that work of two .It brought us the salvation of God .That work of salvation surpasses all human understanding. He gives us a living hope that will not disappoint those who do hear His word and therefore believe .
Natural man has no understanding of the things of the Spirit of God: they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I think if men jump around to show they are confused, rather than men who show they are moved by God to search out a hidden matter, according to His signified language .Then one might understand that God does not leave people as orphans with no comforter. .
Acts 17:10-12 King James Version (KJV) And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
The commandment to each individual that hears the living word of God, is to study... rightly dividing His perfect law, the Bible. And not adding or subtracting from it. This is how we can seek after His approval, or are lovingly commanded . There are many warning not to seek after the approval of men.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
God who name is jealous. He will not share the glory of work he works in us with us. We have that teaching power in us power in us but are never to assume it could be of us. One is our mediator not see, our father in heaven . He gives us comforting reminders as to our source of new faith ( and brings all things to your remembrance)
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26
1 Cor 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, be zealous to prophesy; and forbid not to speak with tongues.
Am I supposed to believe that Paul here is wasting ink and telling people 'be sure to not forbid people speaking hebrew in your church, always get an interpreter to greek though so he isn't just talking hebrew alone there'.
That makes no sense whatsoever. That is common sense and everyone gets it. 'Dont forget to breathe guys'
Am I supposed to believe that Paul here is wasting ink and telling people 'be sure to not forbid people speaking hebrew in your church, always get an interpreter to greek though so he isn't just talking hebrew alone there'.
That makes no sense whatsoever. That is common sense and everyone gets it. 'Dont forget to breathe guys'