A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

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Waggles

Waggles

Senior Member
#1,001
Sep 21, 2017
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adelaiderevival.com
#1,001
Noose said:
Then why must tongues be interpreted for the church to be edified?
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Because Jesus and the scriptures are detailing two separate yet related aspects of speaking in tongues:
1: a sign - the Bible evidence of baptism of the Holy Spirit - rivers of living water flowing through a disciple who has truly
received the indwelling Spirit of God - a spiritual prayer language.
Praying in the Spirit builds up the faith of a disciple and allows the Holy Spirit to burn up the chaff; strengthens & renews the
inner person.
2: the operation of the gift of diversity of tongues is within the Church - specifically at a formal worship/communion
meeting when the saints come together - 1Corinthians 12 & 14
The gift of diversity of tongues is spoken and then immediately followed by the gift of interpretation - up to three times maximum;
then there ought to be up to three gifts of prophecy one after another.
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#1,002
Apr 18, 2016
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#1,002
Waggles said:
Because Jesus and the scriptures are detailing two separate yet related aspects of speaking in tongues:
1: a sign - the Bible evidence of baptism of the Holy Spirit - rivers of living water flowing through a disciple who has truly
received the indwelling Spirit of God - a spiritual prayer language.
Praying in the Spirit builds up the faith of a disciple and allows the Holy Spirit to burn up the chaff; strengthens & renews the
inner person.
2: the operation of the gift of diversity of tongues is within the Church - specifically at a formal worship/communion
meeting when the saints come together - 1Corinthians 12 & 14
The gift of diversity of tongues is spoken and then immediately followed by the gift of interpretation - up to three times maximum;
then there ought to be up to three gifts of prophecy one after another.
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You did not answer my question, instead you are describing your thoughts of how tongues are applied.

Q1. Why is it that for a member in the church to be edified by someone else's tongues, there must be an interpretation, meaning that there must be an understanding of the spoken words? Can members of the church be edified without interpretation or understanding since they have the same spirit in them?

Q2. The bible also talks of walking the spirit, if tongues are the spiritual language, what would 'walking in the spirit' look like?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#1,003
#1,003
Noose said:
Are you trying to reduce this argument into a philosophical one? It is very easy to rumble on about fallacies but very difficult to prove meaningless words/tongues. And you have no basis for dismissing the 'tongues' spoken by snake handlers. You suggest that they are a different group from you and you also suggest that their tongues are fake and you can not be associated with them and what they do.

This must be the fallacy of all fallacies because the snake handlers practice their tongues from their understanding of 1 Cor 12-14 and Acts just like you do. If the snake is put down for a minute, there's absolutely no difference between you and them.
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Exactly, we already have the conclusion arrived at by scientific method and deductive reasoning modern day glossolalia is not language.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#1,004
Oct 14, 2013
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#1,004
GtrPkr said:
LOL..... I've had a very similar experience with some "Name it and Claim it Prosperity" friends of mine. They tried real hard to teach me how to "mouth" the words and said, "It's easy, all it takes is practice...." But the more I objected the more they accused me of "Harboring a spirit of hindrance."
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L0L, YOU CANNOT practice A GENUINE MIRACLE.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#1,005
#1,005
VCO said:
L0L, YOU CANNOT practice A GENUINE MIRACLE.
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If the HS is really working, It does not take practice, It takes letting go and let him do the work..

If your trying to “help” him, all your gonna do is get in the way..
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#1,006
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
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#1,006
Noose said:
You argue but have no basis, you even loosing track of your own argument. You said all gifts will cease during Christ's millennial rule and i pointed to you, Paul says in 1 Cor 13 that these three shall remain when every gift ceases, Hope/Faith/Love. My question is, do you think during Christ's rule people will still be hoping and having faith unto salvation and praying?
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The word is "losing", and I didn't.

I wrote this, "The Scripture also talks of the millennium, but that hasn't happened yet either."

I did not write this, "All gifts will cease during Christ's millennial rule".

Instead of reading what I wrote, you read into what I wrote.
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#1,007
Apr 18, 2016
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#1,007
Dino246 said:
The word is "losing", and I didn't.

I wrote this, "The Scripture also talks of the millennium, but that hasn't happened yet either."

I did not write this, "All gifts will cease during Christ's millennial rule".

Instead of reading what I wrote, you read into what I wrote.
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What about the millennium? are fallacies going to cease in the millennium?
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#1,008
Jun 30, 2015
25,602
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#1,008
Noose said:
I've not attended a logic class but i can tell this argument is fallacious.

We can tell from the bible that the word 'tongue' refers to languages:

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

The word 'other' implies that whatever they spoke before is also a 'tongue' only that the spirit enabled them to speak in new tongues. If whatever they spoke before was a language which we know it was, then also new utterances must have been languages.
If they originally spoke Greek, then speaking Greek is also speaking in tongues, if Hebrew, Hebrew becomes a tongue and this applies to all the languages on earth.

This is the yard stick, there are no other yard sticks.
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It's clear you don't know what constitutes a fallacy, but that is a side issue.

Social science, which includes linguistics, does not have the objective authority that hard sciences (such as physics and chemistry) have. You, being a mere contributor on this forum as I am, do not have the authority to determine what is or isn't a standard for measurement or examination.

In simpler terms, you don't get to control the narrative.
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#1,010
Apr 18, 2016
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#1,010
Dino246 said:
It's clear you don't know what constitutes a fallacy, but that is a side issue.

Social science, which includes linguistics, does not have the objective authority that hard sciences (such as physics and chemistry) have. You, being a mere contributor on this forum as I am, do not have the authority to determine what is or isn't a standard for measurement or examination.

In simpler terms, you don't get to control the narrative.
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Very easy. At a bare minimum, a language is made of words with specific meaning(s) and pronunciation(s). The 'tongues' today don't have that crucial aspect- meaning.

1 Cor 14:10 Assuredly, there are many different languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning.
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#1,011
Apr 18, 2016
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#1,011
Dino246 said:
Yours? Probably not. :)
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Not you but the thought of gifts ceasing during the millennium is as worse as the thought that the gifts are being applied today only to disappear instantly some day in the future before the millennium. ;)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#1,014
#1,014
Dino246 said:
The word is "losing", and I didn't.

I wrote this, "The Scripture also talks of the millennium, but that hasn't happened yet either."

I did not write this, "All gifts will cease during Christ's millennial rule".

Instead of reading what I wrote, you read into what I wrote.
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Why is this so common?? Ughh!!
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#1,015
#1,015
Noose said:
Very easy. At a bare minimum, a language is made of words with specific meaning(s) and pronunciation(s). The 'tongues' today don't have that crucial aspect- meaning.

1 Cor 14:10 Assuredly, there are many different languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning.
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Amazing we have to debate the obvious.

Paul certainly knew it.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#1,016
#1,016
Dino246 said:
It's clear you don't know what constitutes a fallacy, but that is a side issue.

Social science, which includes linguistics, does not have the objective authority that hard sciences (such as physics and chemistry) have. You, being a mere contributor on this forum as I am, do not have the authority to determine what is or isn't a standard for measurement or examination.

In simpler terms, you don't get to control the narrative.
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Too funny, we objectively can determine that glossolalia is not a language

As far as linguistics goes, as with all social sciences it depend on which part of that field of study
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#1,019
Oct 14, 2013
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#1,019
jb said:
How can a non Charismatic/Pentecostal Christian who has not experienced the gift give an honest explanation of it!
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Sounds like you are wiser than you think. Would changing Churches to a Non-Charismatic Style of Church, be an option ?

I attend a non-charismatic, conservative evangelical Church that is NON-Denominational too.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#1,020
#1,020
BenFTW said:
If tongues is a gift/manifestation of the Holy Spirit, how do you say that the foreign language the man speaks is his natural language? That would mean we all speak in tongues any time we are in the midst of a people unfamiliar with our language. However, this is a very naturalistic understanding and presentation of what is a spiritual gift, that permits a person to speak in languages they do not know fluently.
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The gift is being able to speak a language (communicative, meaningful earthly language) without any training in that language.

Is this not a gift?
 
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