A Double Standard in Christianity?
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First you said my arguments were based conjecture now you are saying I was voicing my 'opinion' --which is false-- I used numerous bible verses, a commentary to support my position, and included a video--my main point being the bible honored women more than most of our modern churches, not if a woman could be a pastor or not---I got into a side conversation with Just By Faith regarding head coverings--in fact in one of my posts I said a woman can hold many roles in the church--even teach, but I said I believed not Elder/Pastor since women are not mentioned in the guidelines for Elder--however they are included in the guidelines for Deacon--and Deacons in scripture performed acts of service and backed this up by the fact that women are called Diakonos. Paul call several women co-workers who worked hard alongside of him. I mentioned the well-known missionaries from other centuries--Elisabeth Eliot and Amy Carmichael. I also listed notable women of the Old Testament and verses that listed women in the New Testament.
it appears you looked at little to none of my posts and said I spoke from opinion without investigating what I actually stated.
it appears you looked at little to none of my posts and said I spoke from opinion without investigating what I actually stated.
Peldom -- you need to see the conversation between myself and Just By Faith--he is stating the verse is only for CERTAIN people and I am saying it is for ALL true believers. In any case what you have state should be addressed to Just By Faith, since he is the one that believes this pertains only to certain people--himself being a primary example of that.
S
I cite only to those who are interested in the truth. From the conversation which you have initiated, you are far from this state.
The only refutation to post-modern feminism is "You are wrong". You can quote me.
The only refutation to post-modern feminism is "You are wrong". You can quote me.
Paul greets Phoebe in Romans 16 as a deacon of the church and Junia, whom Paul addresses as prominent among the Apostles
Priscilla is acknowledged as a teacher along with her husband, Aquila in Acts 18. 26 in fact, Priscilla corrected Paul...and Paul took it
The four daughters of Philip are spoken of as exercising the gift of prophecy in the same verse, Acts 18
In Acts 18:26, Priscilla is acknowledged as a teacher, along with her husband Aquila
the four daughters of Philip in Acts 21:9, exercised the gift of prophecy or inspired speech. and they were not married
this is all in the New Testament, so all excuses or opinions stating that women should always be silent are obviously missing something
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S
really Nehemiah? I have presented the following a number of times now and these scriptures clearly show the involvement of women in the NT church, including teaching.
Paul greets Phoebe in Romans 16 as a deacon of the church and Junia, whom Paul addresses as prominent among the Apostles
Priscilla is acknowledged as a teacher along with her husband, Aquila in Acts 18. 26 in fact, Priscilla corrected Paul...and Paul took it
The four daughters of Philip are spoken of as exercising the gift of prophecy in the same verse, Acts 18
In Acts 18:26, Priscilla is acknowledged as a teacher, along with her husband Aquila
the four daughters of Philip in Acts 21:9, exercised the gift of prophecy or inspired speech. and they were not married
this is all in the New Testament, so all excuses or opinions stating that women should always be silent are obviously missing something
perhaps God is the ultimate feminist if that is your understanding of feminist
the ridiculous accusation of calling Christian women here feminists is not inspired by anything other than male angst
I would like to add that churches of the first century met primarily in individual homes throughout the week. They also met on Saturdays in the Jewish synogogue--we see that both the Jews and Gentiles did so in the book of Acts--btw, that is the assembly referred to in scripture--so the silence and head covering were Jewish customs.
we see several churches listed in the NT, that met in women's homes. Cities had elders, but not individual churches. Believers met together in homes with no leaders (unless one of the apostles happened to be in town) studying the Word together. Our modern churches are run more like businesses than fellowships. I for one would like to get back to meeting simply, organically-and frequently --women, men, old, young--all together eating a meal and sharing equally, a word a song, etc they also didn't take a whole year to read one letter--it was read aloud, sometimes copied it and then passed along. A much better way of doing things in my opinion--although I am thankful to have the Holy Scriptures all in one place.
we see several churches listed in the NT, that met in women's homes. Cities had elders, but not individual churches. Believers met together in homes with no leaders (unless one of the apostles happened to be in town) studying the Word together. Our modern churches are run more like businesses than fellowships. I for one would like to get back to meeting simply, organically-and frequently --women, men, old, young--all together eating a meal and sharing equally, a word a song, etc they also didn't take a whole year to read one letter--it was read aloud, sometimes copied it and then passed along. A much better way of doing things in my opinion--although I am thankful to have the Holy Scriptures all in one place.
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I can deny the fact that all of the books in the Bible were written by male apostles because there were no apostles until Christ's time. Moses was not an apostle. He wrote the first five books of the Bible. He was a prophet. The Bible and tradition only call out around thirty five of the Bible authors by name. For instance, the book of Ruth does not specifically identify either the author or the circumstances of its composition. Esther and Job are likewise of unknown origin. Can you say with absolute certainty that none were written by a woman? I think you would be lying if you did. I would agree that in such a patriarchal society it is unlikely, but to go further than that, given other books are also of unknown origin, would be folly. Nehemiah, Ezra, David, Solomon, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Joel, Obadiah, Jonah, Hosea, Amos, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi, etc... none are rightly called apostles.
Still, the claim was that there were no female apostles, and that has been thoroughly debunked
Still, the claim was that there were no female apostles, and that has been thoroughly debunked
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Of course the Bible doesn't say what we want it to say...it says what God wanted it to say.
So if it doesn't say what you want it to you make word salad out of it. Find every excuse and twisting rack you can think of to make it say something different than what it does.
People have been doing this since the bible was first penned by Moses.
The Son of Nebat was famous for doing so. "Nevermind the scriptures, we are doing what we are doing" was the explanation.
So if it doesn't say what you want it to you make word salad out of it. Find every excuse and twisting rack you can think of to make it say something different than what it does.
People have been doing this since the bible was first penned by Moses.
The Son of Nebat was famous for doing so. "Nevermind the scriptures, we are doing what we are doing" was the explanation.
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I can deny the fact that all of the books in the Bible were written by male apostles because there were no apostles until Christ's time. Moses was not an apostle. He wrote the first five books of the Bible. He was a prophet. The Bible and tradition only call out around thirty five of the Bible authors by name. For instance, the book of Ruth does not specifically identify either the author or the circumstances of its composition. Esther and Job are likewise of unknown origin. Can you say with absolute certainty that none were written by a woman? I think you would be lying if you did. I would agree that in such a patriarchal society it is unlikely, but to go further than that, given other books are also of unknown origin, would be folly. Nehemiah, Ezra, David, Solomon, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Joel, Obadiah, Jonah, Hosea, Amos, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi, etc... none are rightly called apostles.
Still, the claim was that there were no female apostles, and that has been thoroughly debunked
Still, the claim was that there were no female apostles, and that has been thoroughly debunked
I rephrase the statement to say that every book of the Bible was penned by a male author and that none of them were female.
Because of the title...that's literally what it means. It's a function of the office of Deacon. That's why she was in Rome. She was there to teach as she was trained by Paul and sent with the letter. They were supposed to treat her the same as they would Paul. She knew the contents of the letter and she was to not only read it but teach the contents more thoroughly...to the church elders in Rome.
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