A Distinction Between Tongues

[garee]

I showed you in scripture where Paul said that speaking in tongues edified oneself, and he wished that you all spoke with tongues. Prophesying edifies the church, and he'd prefer that you prophesy.

You should accept what Paul says. You should also look up 'edify' in the English dictionary and the Greek word, which can also mean 'build.'

Hi Thanks for the reply

Yes builds up. Its what prophecy does. Build up. . . the source causing growth .

Paul can plant the seed (prophecy) and another can water it with the gospel (prophecy) .But God alone who causing the spiritual growth gets the edification. I would think He will not share his glory with corrupted flesh and blood.

In that way Paul was not crucified for the sins of the world . We edify the Spirit of Christ who lives in theses earthen bodies. His power not of us.

Its not flesh and blood we wrestle against and neither does it build us up. As as sons of God we are not that in which we will be. Even Jesus as the Son of man declared his flesh profits for nothing. Its the unseen Spirt that can and does.

Prophesying edifies the source .

God simply is not served by corrupted human hands.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

I would offer we are his masterpiece.

Christians meaning residents of the city of Christ. The city prepared as his bride declares He is the master builder

Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

 

[garee]

What you have is a lack of understanding regarding the term, "circular reasoning".

Not according to your un circular reasoning .(no law) Just bunch endless of philosophical theories. Like the philosophers in Acts 17

You also are lacking understanding with regard to both edification and spiritual gifts.

Not according to your un circular reasoning .

Once you stop mindlessly repeating your pseudo-biblical statements, and start believing what the Bible actually says, you will see that your position is not biblically sound.

According to your un circular reasoning? Or Gods law as circular reasoning .. . Its true because God declares its true? Can't find the Spirit of God under a microscope or telescope. He is not know afer the rudiments of this world .But is by a exclusive faith as it is
need self edification? Filler up make a noise.

 

[Dino246]

Not according to your un circular reasoning .(no law) Just bunch endless of philosophical theories. Like the philosophers in Acts 17

View attachment 210782 View attachment 210783




Not according to your un circular reasoning .



According to your un circular reasoning? Or Gods law as circular reasoning .. . Its true because God declares its true? Can't find the Spirit of God under a microscope or telescope. He is not know afer the rudiments of this world .But is by a exclusive faith as it is
need self edification? Filler up make a noise.

What you completely misunderstand is that circular reasoning is BAD reasoning. People use the diagrams you provided to mock Christians. There is no such thing as "God's law as circular reasoning".

 

[Dino246]

Hi Thanks for the reply

Yes builds up. Its what prophecy does. Build up. . . the source causing growth .

Paul can plant the seed (prophecy) and another can water it with the gospel (prophecy) .But God alone who causing the spiritual growth gets the edification. I would think He will not share his glory with corrupted flesh and blood.

In that way Paul was not crucified for the sins of the world . We edify the Spirit of Christ who lives in theses earthen bodies. His power not of us.

Its not flesh and blood we wrestle against and neither does it build us up. As as sons of God we are not that in which we will be. Even Jesus as the Son of man declared his flesh profits for nothing. Its the unseen Spirt that can and does.

Prophesying edifies the source .

God simply is not served by corrupted human hands.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

I would offer we are his masterpiece.

Christians meaning residents of the city of Christ. The city prepared as his bride declares He is the master builder

Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

Wow...

Did you read the Bible, or did you cut it up into little bits, toss them in the air, and post the random few that happened to fall on the keyboard?

 

[watcher2013]

Then accept that tongues have ended and water baptism is not essential to salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Jesus said...EXCEPT a man is born of WATER and spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God...
He also said...ye MUST be born again...
Please understand baptism...watch the video.

 

[notuptome]

Jesus said...EXCEPT a man is born of WATER and spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God...
He also said...ye MUST be born again...
Please understand baptism...watch the video.

I do understand and I do not need a heretical video to show me the error of those who see water as essential to salvation.

Philip in Acts gives the clearest demonstration of the place for water baptism in the life of a believer. Acts 8:35-40

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[watcher2013]

I do understand and I do not need a heretical video to show me the error of those who see water as essential to salvation.

Philip in Acts gives the clearest demonstration of the place for water baptism in the life of a believer. Acts 8:35-40

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Was Jesus heretical when he said...You must be BORN OF WATER?
In acts 8:35-40..Did it said what was the detail of their conversation?

 

[notuptome]

Was Jesus heretical when he said...You must be BORN OF WATER?
In acts 8:35-40..Did it said what was the detail of their conversation?

Born of water is not water baptism.

Did you read Acts 8:35-40? Believe and you may not you must receive water baptism. Saved by grace through faith then water baptized as a testimony of the same.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[watcher2013]

Born of water is not water baptism.

Did you read Acts 8:35-40? Believe and you may not you must receive water baptism. Saved by grace through faith then water baptized as a testimony of the same.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

what is Born of water then????

 

[garee]

What you completely misunderstand is that circular reasoning is BAD reasoning. People use the diagrams you provided to mock Christians. There is no such thing as "God's law as circular reasoning".

Then its God' law as a philosophical reasoning, no ends to meet as in the circuit of a perfect law ?

Its the word of God because God who works in people gives them his faith that say it is as it is written. Its the word of God because God who works in people gives them the his faith that say it is as it is written.

let there be and there was. Not non circular. Let there be and there was not.

Will his circle as a complete circuit be broken? Looks like its working to accomplish it good purpose that he works in us to both will and perform it. The circular law of faith.

Why do you say its short circuited like the philosophies of men?

His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. Psalms 19:6-7

 

[Dino246]

Then its God' law as a philosophical reasoning, no ends to meet as in the circuit of a perfect law ?

Its the word of God because God who works in people gives them his faith that say it is as it is written. Its the word of God because God who works in people gives them the his faith that say it is as it is written.

let there be and there was. Not non circular. Let there be and there was not.

Will his circle as a complete circuit be broken? Looks like its working to accomplish it good purpose that he works in us to both will and perform it. The circular law of faith.

Why do you say its short circuited like the philosophies of men?

His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. Psalms 19:6-7

My goodness, man, but you are stubborn.

Just stop using the phrase, "circular reasoning" altogether. You don't understand it. Despite my repeated efforts to explain, teach, and provide information as to what it means, you have resisted learning. Instead, you have invented a meaning, which is both patently incorrect and utterly ridiculous.

 

[garee]

what is Born of water then????

We should be carefull how we hear or say we hear Him not seen . The seed snatchers the father of lies is there to snatch away that which is not on the good ground . "The doctrines of our father in heaven." from where the water of the word flows

It has to do with believing the born of the Spirt of Christ. The anointing Holy Spirit of God. Not what some would believe spirit water.

It is not after the doctrines of men earthly as oral traditions. the popular one. As some sort of confirming sign . But does have to do with the doctrines of God. they fall like rain (rain used to signified the unseen Spirt of God

A distinction must be made between the things of men the temporal seen and those doctrines of God not seen the eternal

The Holy Spirit emphasizes giving us a tool for distinguishing that things of men from that of God . God pours out his Spirit as if it was water. . Not a literal fountain of youth. Water is a corrupted rudiment of this world as is any thing the eyes see..

Deuteronomy 32:1-3 King James Version (KJV) Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.
My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: Because I will publish the name of the Lord: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

Things( H20) that are dead cannot produce spirit life.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[watcher2013]

We should be carefull how we hear or say we hear Him not seen . The seed snatchers the father of lies is there to snatch away that which is not on the good ground . "The doctrines of our father in heaven." from where the water of the word flows

It has to do with believing the born of the Spirt of Christ. The anointing Holy Spirit of God. Not what some would believe spirit water.

It is not after the doctrines of men earthly as oral traditions. the popular one. As some sort of confirming sign . But does have to do with the doctrines of God. they fall like rain (rain used to signified the unseen Spirt of God

A distinction must be made between the things of men the temporal seen and those doctrines of God not seen the eternal

The Holy Spirit emphasizes giving us a tool for distinguishing that things of men from that of God . God pours out his Spirit as if it was water. . Not a literal fountain of youth. Water is a corrupted rudiment of this world as is any thing the eyes see..

Deuteronomy 32:1-3 King James Version (KJV) Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.
My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: Because I will publish the name of the Lord: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

Things( H20) that are dead cannot produce spirit life.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

In short you are not sure what it is?

 

[garee]

My goodness, man, but you are stubborn.

Just stop using the phrase, "circular reasoning" altogether. You don't understand it. Despite my repeated efforts to explain, teach, and provide information as to what it means, you have resisted learning. Instead, you have invented a meaning, which is both patently incorrect and utterly ridiculous.

According to your theory, but not the law of God. The law of truth .

I understand your idea but there simply is no circular reason why I would believe it as a law rather than a theory. We walk by the law of faith. No philosophical theories of faith . Theories of doubt yes. Doubt not the opposite of faith. Unbelief no faith is.

Mankind found out the hard way. By listening to the voice of philosophy, the father of lies . You will surely not die. Words do not need meanings as laws not subject to change. It on the rise today . Just look at the word marriage or word gay today. . The tip of the LGBT iceberg .

 

[CS1]

According to Curtis Edwards, Pagan Pentecostalism: Its Roots: Sex, Sin & Slavery, Voodoo was the religion of African slaves. And even before slavery they would voodoo any religion they took part in. They had voodoo Catholicism for the main part.

The after coming to Haitian and American shores, they voodooed whatever religion they encountered. Voodoo Methodism and voodoo Baptist churches, were common in Louisiana.

Wm. Seymour tried to voodoo the Church of God (Anderson) but got expelled. Shortly thereafter, he voodooed his Wesley Methodism at Azusa street in Los Angeles. He thought voodoo tongues were the same as Bible tongues. This became the Assemblies of God denomination with the Oneness United Pentecostal Church splitting off from them over their antitrinitarian views.

Curtis Edwards

Edwards, Curtis. Pagan Pentecostalism: Its Roots: Sex, Sin & Slavery . Kindle Edition.

Also Speaking in Tongues: Glossalalia and Stress Reduction

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8088740

Your bias has completely taken the topic out of context. And unbiblical.

this comment is completely false

" Pagan Pentecostalism: Its Roots: Sex, Sin & Slavery, Voodoo was the religion of African slaves. And even before slavery they would voodoo any religion they took part in. They had voodoo Catholicism for the main part."

the empowering of the Holy Spirit is found in the Old and New Testament. Nothing of what you have suggested is in the context or teaching or The Pentecostal experience. Rev. Seymour was not the first one to teach the Empowering of the Holy Spirit to the Christian church. Jesus was. You do not know the History of the Azusa Street revival. They were seeking God. No voodoo, sex, or sin and slavery. they had only one type of doctrine for the understanding of the experience that was the Bible.

 

[CS1]

History does not change. Study Wm. Seymour and Azusa Street before you say too much.

i have much extensive study on him and Charles Parham I have study going back to the holiness roots of the 18 00's
and have gone back to the early Church fathers of the apostolic age of the church and the persecuted Church then lastly our Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit in both Old and New Testament

 

[CS1]

A distinction between tongues. A lying tongue is distinct from the tongue that declares the righteousness of Christ.

There is not a single record of Christ speaking in tongues. The tongues of Pentecost are nothing like the tongues many professing folks claim to exercise.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

as you KNow Jesus did not need to speak in tongues HE was God there was nothing HE did not know. Your point is not valid. You do not know what the tongues gift is you only focus on those in error or immature.

 

[CS1]

This is history. According to Edwards, Seymour thought bible tongues were voodoo tongues just as he grew up around. So he mixed that with Wesley Methodism and we have the Charismatic movement with all its varieties. Any body can speak gibberish and it not necessarily be of Satan. People get a buzz doing it and think it's the Holy Spirit. But it's not. If you knew what the real consisted of, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

that is not true.

 

[CS1]

I went to a Pentecostal church twice with some friends who are members. The pastor was having some medical issues so his wife filled in as preacher on both occasions, which were separated by a few months.
On the second visit I witnessed her start to speak strangely about half way through the sermon. She started’ah drawing’ah out her wordsss’ah seemingly trying to raise emotion I guess. before the sermon was over there were people up front kneeling and praying and my buddy took me up. They placed hands on me (and others) and I could hear them all speaking in ”tongues”. The one closest to me was almost speaking in my ear and this went in for minutes, long enough to analyze the sounds. I’m no expert but it was painfully obvious to me that he was making up his own words. Not to make fun but remember when you were a kid maybe you tried to speak Chinese but had no idea what you were doing, that’s what he was doing. It was like wang twang twong pwong, with a slow southern draw no less.
I found it a little humorous and sad, tried to pray for them amongst all the commotion. When I went home I read this:

1 Corinthians 14:27-33 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

So just to summarize my first experience hearing tongues. Approximately 6 people all speaking at once, no interpreter, all led by a woman preacher.
Holy Spirit inspired contradiction of scripture? Absolutely not.

Questions:
Would falsely speaking in tongues be considered a lie?
If so, would it be lying in the name of God?
Is that considered blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?
Can someone who is actually born again, that is to say the Holy Trinity abides in that person, speak in tongues falsely?

your experience does not remove the context of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit in 1 cor chapters 12 to 14. Nor does your few verses cover the full context of all three chapter as they are to be kept in.

 

[CS1]

You can take it or leave it. All believers have the Holy Spirit. And many become filled with the Holy Spirit through repentance. But scripture does not support the Baptism of the Holy Spirit since Paul stopped healing in the Epistles. Many whom he would have healed were sick. Timothy on medicine. If the Baptism were for today, it would be like Acts. Miracles would be headline news everywhere.

The work of God is happening everywhere. And FYI God does not need to to validate them to be so. You would not believe if one brought you with proof and there is many. You attack and bring false narratives to speak about what you see on TV and ther limited experience you have had. SO all must be as such? Because you have said so? Prideful assertion I might say.