30 pieces of silver and Judas Iscariot
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We had a discussion about this at my church a few days ago.
Besides money being a motivator, in the sense that Judas was a prisoner of a habit (money), there were other things that were discussed such as Judas' expectations in regards to Jesus being a military leader or maybe being jealous because he didn’t feel as special as the other apostilles.
But the point that I found more interesting is the whole pre-destination thing that someone brought up.
This was interesting because this is an Orthodox Church group based on Eastern theology and Calvinism was the last thing my mind or anyone else’s mind but I found it to be a valid point.
Maybe it was predestined for Judas to betray Jesus because some of the old prophets prophesized and that was God’s plan.
We concluded by saying that this is ultimately a mystery and nobody condoned Calvinism but it’s good to discuss some of these ideas. The ones we are able to reason anyway.
This is why, a lot of times, i have to drop all logic and reason and simply trust.
Besides money being a motivator, in the sense that Judas was a prisoner of a habit (money), there were other things that were discussed such as Judas' expectations in regards to Jesus being a military leader or maybe being jealous because he didn’t feel as special as the other apostilles.
But the point that I found more interesting is the whole pre-destination thing that someone brought up.
This was interesting because this is an Orthodox Church group based on Eastern theology and Calvinism was the last thing my mind or anyone else’s mind but I found it to be a valid point.
Maybe it was predestined for Judas to betray Jesus because some of the old prophets prophesized and that was God’s plan.
We concluded by saying that this is ultimately a mystery and nobody condoned Calvinism but it’s good to discuss some of these ideas. The ones we are able to reason anyway.
This is why, a lot of times, i have to drop all logic and reason and simply trust.
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Indeed, and we discussed free-will too. We discussed it briefly because we've talked about it before many times.
But my understanding of free-will is similar to @Magenta which is that: Yes, we have free-will but it's limited and it's bound to certain physical and spiritual rules that we cannot break.
So maybe Judas was born with a preference to love money and be a prisoner of a habit, which could be money, alcohol, murder, theft or what have you, in order to complete this plan which was supposed to betray Jesus.
I mean it's a big maybe because nobody knows these grand plans, only God knows.
But my understanding of free-will is similar to @Magenta which is that: Yes, we have free-will but it's limited and it's bound to certain physical and spiritual rules that we cannot break.
So maybe Judas was born with a preference to love money and be a prisoner of a habit, which could be money, alcohol, murder, theft or what have you, in order to complete this plan which was supposed to betray Jesus.
I mean it's a big maybe because nobody knows these grand plans, only God knows.
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Great point, if 30 shekels is the same as 30 pieces of silver. It ties in for sure.
So can Jesus be regarded as a slave? There is a difference in servant or slave. The first is willing, the second not.
Yet it is interesting that Judas decided Jesus was worth the same price as a slave - assuming values of money were the same or similar in the time lapse between old and new testaments.
So can Jesus be regarded as a slave? There is a difference in servant or slave. The first is willing, the second not.
Yet it is interesting that Judas decided Jesus was worth the same price as a slave - assuming values of money were the same or similar in the time lapse between old and new testaments.
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Why don't you see what is actually in the Bible?
JOHN 13: JUDAS WAS POSSESSED BY SATAN
21 When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.
22 Then the disciples looked one on another, doubting of whom he spake.
23 Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.
24 Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake.
25 He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?
26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
JOHN 13: JUDAS WAS POSSESSED BY SATAN
21 When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.
22 Then the disciples looked one on another, doubting of whom he spake.
23 Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.
24 Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake.
25 He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?
26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.
27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
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“Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.”
John 6:70-71 KJV
“While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.”
John 17:12 KJV
“Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. And they were glad, and covenanted to give him money.”
Luke 22:3, 5 KJV
“and said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver. And from that time he sought opportunity to betray him.”
Matthew 26:15-16 KJV
“Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value; and gave them for the potter's field, as the Lord appointed me.”
Matthew 27:9-10
“And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people. And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.”
Zechariah 11:10, 12-13
John 6:70-71 KJV
“While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.”
John 17:12 KJV
“Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. And they were glad, and covenanted to give him money.”
Luke 22:3, 5 KJV
“and said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver. And from that time he sought opportunity to betray him.”
Matthew 26:15-16 KJV
“Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value; and gave them for the potter's field, as the Lord appointed me.”
Matthew 27:9-10
“And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people. And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.”
Zechariah 11:10, 12-13
The gospel is the promises in the prophets being fulfilled concerning the king and messiah and lord and his eternal Kingdom what I mean is Judas betraying Jesus was foretold and was being fulfilled there was no stopping it or changing it that’s just of course my opinion which is only that
something to note about the gospel is that it was foretold in the prophets and the gospel is when it was coming to pass , which was foretold beforehand
What I mean is this was foretold around 700 bc
“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
Isaiah 7:14 KJV
Jesus was later born which is in the beginning of the gospel , and it was fulfilling this word from God
“And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
Matthew 1:21-23
The entire gospel is like that even his betrayal , crucifixion , his suffering is detailed amazingly well in the prophets and psalms these things were spoken by the holt spirit beforehand is my point God saw everything from the beginning he already knew judas heart and through this tradgedy of man betraying but remeber judas betrayed but also Jews at large rejected him and shouted crucify him crucify him !! gentiles then mocked and beat him and crucified him and his suffering and shame and death becomes a glorious thing when we realize what he’s done to save us as the propitiation for our sin
It’s why we see so often in the gospel for a few examples
“Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee; and leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in m th that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying, The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, By the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; The people which sat in darkness Saw great light; And to them which sat in the region and shadow of death Light is sprung up.
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
Matthew 4:12-17 KJV
Or like this
“that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; My beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, And he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry; Neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. A bruised reed shall he not break, And smoking flax shall he not quench, Till he send forth judgment unto victory. And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.”
Matthew 12:17-21 KJV
Or things like this
“All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, Meek, and sitting upon an ass, And a colt the foal of an ass. And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them, and brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon. And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way. And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.”
Matthew 21:4-9 KJV
What I mean to say is I don’t think we can change thkngs like Peter remember said “ lord I’ll never deny you ! “ but Jesus already knew what he was going to do he told him “ you’ll deny me three times before the crowing “ and even though Peter hadn’t intended to when the time came jesus had known what would happen because remember that too was in prophecy and had to be fulfilled
“And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.”
Mark 14:27 KJV
“And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.”
Zechariah 13:6-7
The whole gospel is just like that it was foretold and always came to pass as it was foretold is my point the gospel is really important t point in scripture
Jesus says this after he is raised up which he is summarizing the aspects of the ot important to Christian’s
“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, ( this means the ot the nt hadn’t yet been written ) and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
Luke 24:44-48 KJV
Remember prophecy also like this ?
“And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken. Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him. Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.”
Isaiah 8:14-18
Even things after the gospel such as Paul’s choosing to replace Judas who would lead the gentile ministry and even the figure of the tribe of Dan who was a serpent of the original twelve tribes which embody the apostles ect
i think it was all spoken from what God foresaw and that’s why his solution is so perfect
something to note about the gospel is that it was foretold in the prophets and the gospel is when it was coming to pass , which was foretold beforehand
What I mean is this was foretold around 700 bc
“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
Isaiah 7:14 KJV
Jesus was later born which is in the beginning of the gospel , and it was fulfilling this word from God
“And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
Matthew 1:21-23
The entire gospel is like that even his betrayal , crucifixion , his suffering is detailed amazingly well in the prophets and psalms these things were spoken by the holt spirit beforehand is my point God saw everything from the beginning he already knew judas heart and through this tradgedy of man betraying but remeber judas betrayed but also Jews at large rejected him and shouted crucify him crucify him !! gentiles then mocked and beat him and crucified him and his suffering and shame and death becomes a glorious thing when we realize what he’s done to save us as the propitiation for our sin
It’s why we see so often in the gospel for a few examples
“Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee; and leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in m th that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying, The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, By the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; The people which sat in darkness Saw great light; And to them which sat in the region and shadow of death Light is sprung up.
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
Matthew 4:12-17 KJV
Or like this
“that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; My beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, And he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry; Neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. A bruised reed shall he not break, And smoking flax shall he not quench, Till he send forth judgment unto victory. And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.”
Matthew 12:17-21 KJV
Or things like this
“All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, Meek, and sitting upon an ass, And a colt the foal of an ass. And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them, and brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon. And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way. And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.”
Matthew 21:4-9 KJV
What I mean to say is I don’t think we can change thkngs like Peter remember said “ lord I’ll never deny you ! “ but Jesus already knew what he was going to do he told him “ you’ll deny me three times before the crowing “ and even though Peter hadn’t intended to when the time came jesus had known what would happen because remember that too was in prophecy and had to be fulfilled
“And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.”
Mark 14:27 KJV
“And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.”
Zechariah 13:6-7
The whole gospel is just like that it was foretold and always came to pass as it was foretold is my point the gospel is really important t point in scripture
Jesus says this after he is raised up which he is summarizing the aspects of the ot important to Christian’s
“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, ( this means the ot the nt hadn’t yet been written ) and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
Luke 24:44-48 KJV
Remember prophecy also like this ?
“And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken. Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him. Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.”
Isaiah 8:14-18
Even things after the gospel such as Paul’s choosing to replace Judas who would lead the gentile ministry and even the figure of the tribe of Dan who was a serpent of the original twelve tribes which embody the apostles ect
i think it was all spoken from what God foresaw and that’s why his solution is so perfect