1Cor 1:26 - individual election
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My greatest kick of all time will be to discover that all these religious pinheads that think they are especially 'chosen' to go to heaven while others are 'chosen' to go to hell will find out they were never chosen at all - and because they thought they were chosen - never got around to acknowledging their need to receive the Saviour and find themselves on the great slide to perdition.
They deny salvation to others, I hope God denies it to them.
They deny salvation to others, I hope God denies it to them.
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Good! be as ignorant as you can be on Calvinism. I choose to know nothing except Christ and Him crucified, a Saviour that has 'chosen' to seek and to save those that are lost in order to please His Father Who would 'have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth' (I Timothy 2:4).
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same could be said of all those who think they chose God, never getting around to acknowledging their need to be first chosen by Him.
who say in their hearts, 'thank God i am not like these other men' because of all the good 'works' they do, that they think commend them to God, imagining God doesn't help those who don't first help themselves.
who say in their hearts, 'thank God i am not like these other men' because of all the good 'works' they do, that they think commend them to God, imagining God doesn't help those who don't first help themselves.
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same could be said of all those who think they chose God, never getting around to acknowledging their need to be first chosen by Him.
who say in their hearts, 'thank God i am not like these other men' because of all the good 'works' they do, that they think commend them to God, imagining God doesn't help those who don't first help themselves.
who say in their hearts, 'thank God i am not like these other men' because of all the good 'works' they do, that they think commend them to God, imagining God doesn't help those who don't first help themselves.
'thank God i'm not like those other people' ain't much to cling to, no matter who you're calling 'other people' lol
how about this for a stout handhold:
even to touch the hem of his tallit is enough for me, thanks
how about this for a stout handhold:
I AM the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;
and whoever lives by believing in Me will never die. Do you believe this?
(John 11:25-26)
(John 11:25-26)
even to touch the hem of his tallit is enough for me, thanks
'thank God i'm not like those other people' ain't much to cling to, no matter who you're calling 'other people' lol
how about this for a stout handhold:
even to touch the hem of his tallit is enough for me, thanks
how about this for a stout handhold:
I AM the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;
and whoever lives by believing in Me will never die. Do you believe this?
(John 11:25-26)
even to touch the hem of his tallit is enough for me, thanks
I'm not sure why you repeated the purple-text verse as though I am responsible for thinking that. But I 'do' thank God that I am not like those that reject the Saviour. I wouldn't want to be lost again for all the diamonds in the world. By the way, God 'did' call me - God issued an universal call to 'whomsoever' will come.
"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ" (II Thessalonians 2:13-14).
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because Calvinists are said to accuse Arminians of saying 'thank God i am not like those other men who weren't smart enough or wise enough to choose God'
and Arminians are said to accuse Calvinists of saying 'thank God i am not like those other men that weren't special enough for God to choose'
as i said earlier, generally what i know about both are what the opposite say about them. but from that, it seems like parking yourself in either camp is a bad idea -- clinging to 'i'm better than those guys' is a bad scene, no matter who 'those guys' are. i don't believe the grace of God is measured by comparing one's self with others, and since what i know about both of these -isms is from reading threads and posts other people make about how much they dislike or disagree with the other side, what i've seen all amounts to 'my -ism is better than your -ism because your -ism sucks, and here's how it does, in detail'
what i understand about both -isms could be wildly inaccurate tho, because human nature is to lie about what a human considers his enemy, painting the worst picture of them possible, to defame them.
but i don't care to know too much better about them. Arminius doesn't save; Calvin doesn't save. Jesus saves.
what i know is, i was dead, and God put eyes in my skull, ears on the sides of my empty cranium, and said to me "live"
and lo, i could see where i was blind, and i could hear, tho i was deaf. i was dead; He made me alive, and i live
that's something actually worth clinging to
and Arminians are said to accuse Calvinists of saying 'thank God i am not like those other men that weren't special enough for God to choose'
as i said earlier, generally what i know about both are what the opposite say about them. but from that, it seems like parking yourself in either camp is a bad idea -- clinging to 'i'm better than those guys' is a bad scene, no matter who 'those guys' are. i don't believe the grace of God is measured by comparing one's self with others, and since what i know about both of these -isms is from reading threads and posts other people make about how much they dislike or disagree with the other side, what i've seen all amounts to 'my -ism is better than your -ism because your -ism sucks, and here's how it does, in detail'
what i understand about both -isms could be wildly inaccurate tho, because human nature is to lie about what a human considers his enemy, painting the worst picture of them possible, to defame them.
but i don't care to know too much better about them. Arminius doesn't save; Calvin doesn't save. Jesus saves.
what i know is, i was dead, and God put eyes in my skull, ears on the sides of my empty cranium, and said to me "live"
and lo, i could see where i was blind, and i could hear, tho i was deaf. i was dead; He made me alive, and i live
that's something actually worth clinging to
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same God says, "the hearing ear, the seeing eye, the LORD has made them both" -- He's the one who tore the temple veil, not any man.
& amen, like i've been saying, i'm not 'calvinist' and i'm not 'arminian' -- never read either, never studied either. learned about them from other people bashing alternately one or the other. i listen to scores and scores of different preachers and criticize what every one of them say by comparing it with what i read in the scripture. some, i find very little to question. some, i can hardly stomach to sit through even a 30 minute sermon. i don't check to see their party-affiliation card either before or after lol
turns out, i see a whole lot more support in the Bible for 'calvinist' views than i do for 'arminian' ones. but i wouldn't ever say i'm 'calvinist' any sooner than i would say i'm a member of any denomination or any human political party.
*shrug* maybe that's just the whole being a 'generation-x-er' thing -- we resist being pigeon-holed and categorized, in any form. which is to pigeon-hole that generation ((ha!)). regardless, amen, the scripture, not a commentator, not a preacher, not a human philosophy.
& amen, like i've been saying, i'm not 'calvinist' and i'm not 'arminian' -- never read either, never studied either. learned about them from other people bashing alternately one or the other. i listen to scores and scores of different preachers and criticize what every one of them say by comparing it with what i read in the scripture. some, i find very little to question. some, i can hardly stomach to sit through even a 30 minute sermon. i don't check to see their party-affiliation card either before or after lol
turns out, i see a whole lot more support in the Bible for 'calvinist' views than i do for 'arminian' ones. but i wouldn't ever say i'm 'calvinist' any sooner than i would say i'm a member of any denomination or any human political party.
*shrug* maybe that's just the whole being a 'generation-x-er' thing -- we resist being pigeon-holed and categorized, in any form. which is to pigeon-hole that generation ((ha!)). regardless, amen, the scripture, not a commentator, not a preacher, not a human philosophy.
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of His goodness, and the work of faith with power:
That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
(2 Thessalonians 1:11-12)
makes one stop and 'think' doesn't it?
ha! intellectual after all! 
personally, i didn't know most of these words until i came to CC and stated reading threads whose purpose was to bash Calvinism.
so it was Arminians that taught me that vocabulary
so it was Arminians that taught me that vocabulary
To "this" sheep, however? These "doctrine/traditions of man" terms, are just "so much" vanity! Which, OVER COMPLICATES things! As they "tap dance" like "Religious Politicians"! Feigning people, that there "head", is "in the game", so to speak. While there "heart/s, are on the golf course, or in the "devising" of some other way/s, of "fleecing!"
If ya CAN'T "dazzle 'em with brillance?" "Baffle 'em!"....With B.S.!"
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oh!
ok, now i guess i know what you mean when you say 'Calvinism' -- you mean, the idea of God predestining some people to perdition.
please allow me to drop a bolt into the fine-toothed gears of your brain for a moment.. was Judas destined to betray God, or was it totally up to him? could the 'son of perdition' have turned out to be any, all, or none of the disciples, depending totally on their own free will? did Christ choose a vessel the Potter had made and purposed for profane use, or did He choose 12 ambiguous pots and let the clay sort out among themselves which one ((if any)) would be 'prepared for destruction' ?
ok, now i guess i know what you mean when you say 'Calvinism' -- you mean, the idea of God predestining some people to perdition.
please allow me to drop a bolt into the fine-toothed gears of your brain for a moment.. was Judas destined to betray God, or was it totally up to him? could the 'son of perdition' have turned out to be any, all, or none of the disciples, depending totally on their own free will? did Christ choose a vessel the Potter had made and purposed for profane use, or did He choose 12 ambiguous pots and let the clay sort out among themselves which one ((if any)) would be 'prepared for destruction' ?
Like you PH, these terms, when I hear people "using" them, either in print, or orally? I tend to shy away from! As I liken them to "terms of recognition", used by "like minded intellectuals", in their "distinguishing" themselves to each other, from us "mere sheeps!"
To "this" sheep, however? These "doctrine/traditions of man" terms, are just "so much" vanity! Which, OVER COMPLICATES things! As they "tap dance" like "Religious Politicians"! Feigning people, that there "head", is "in the game", so to speak. While there "heart/s, are on the golf course, or in the "devising" of some other way/s, of "fleecing!"
If ya CAN'T "dazzle 'em with brillance?" "Baffle 'em!"....With B.S.!"
To "this" sheep, however? These "doctrine/traditions of man" terms, are just "so much" vanity! Which, OVER COMPLICATES things! As they "tap dance" like "Religious Politicians"! Feigning people, that there "head", is "in the game", so to speak. While there "heart/s, are on the golf course, or in the "devising" of some other way/s, of "fleecing!"
If ya CAN'T "dazzle 'em with brillance?" "Baffle 'em!"....With B.S.!"
we're human, after all. thank God He stoops to look on us!
sort of in re: this comment, i read Ted Dekker's most recent book last month, and in it he's got this protagonist who is destined to fulfill a prophecy; the fate of two worlds is all depending on her completing a mystical mission in time.
she's feels a lot of pressure from the weight of this, wondering if she's up to the task, but a 'wise' character consoles her saying that if she fails, then no problem, some other person will be born in the future to fulfill the prophecy. and if they fail, someone else will take their place, and so on, and so on.
i was like, wait, so she's not really fulfilling a prophecy. she doesn't have any actual destiny, she's not set apart for any purpose, she's not been specially created, she's just one in an infinite line of "hmm maybe this one" -- so the prophecy has no power and can't be trusted at all, because it could fail an infinite number of times, maybe has already failed an infinite number of times? wth is this, Mssr. Dekker? is that how Biblical prophecy works??
she's written as a Messianic figure -- is Mssr. Dekker telling us Jesus could have failed, but that's cool, an infinite line of 'maybe Saviors if they are up to the task' are ready to be born, and one of them will probably pass the test?
i finished the book, but all the while i was thinking "Ted, dude, what happened to you, you used to be cool"
and Jesus chose him -- "have I not chosen you?" is what comes right before what you quoted.
Luke 22:3 & John 13:27 both say "Satan entered him" -- which to me eliminates the idea that Judas was Satan incarnate.
it is interesting tho, that John appears to recognize the beast in Revelation 17, who was, who is not, and who is to come. big subject.
what are we looking at, then? did Judas personally have an unavoidable destiny, or could any of the disciples have been the son of perdition if Judas had -by his own free agency - decided not to be? is that a choice Judas was free to make? what if he chose otherwise, and all the disciples chose otherwise -- then no one delivers Jesus to be crucified?
how does prophecy reconcile with the idea of human free will?
Luke 22:3 & John 13:27 both say "Satan entered him" -- which to me eliminates the idea that Judas was Satan incarnate.
it is interesting tho, that John appears to recognize the beast in Revelation 17, who was, who is not, and who is to come. big subject.
what are we looking at, then? did Judas personally have an unavoidable destiny, or could any of the disciples have been the son of perdition if Judas had -by his own free agency - decided not to be? is that a choice Judas was free to make? what if he chose otherwise, and all the disciples chose otherwise -- then no one delivers Jesus to be crucified?
how does prophecy reconcile with the idea of human free will?