“Confronting the Error of Hyper-Grace” – a response to Michael Brown

[PeterJens]

I stand because Jesus stands with me. I am righteous because Jesus made me righteous, taught me to talk and walk.
Only through Christ can you find God, because of Gods grace to us, His love in Jesus.

Why is it those who are called are eternally secure and can never be lost but must believe this is so to be eternally secure.
It is like saying unless you believe this you are lost, which means you are not secure and are lost. The security is in knowing Jesus and that alone. When I saw Jesus upon the cross I fell in awe, wonder, brokeness and praise. Why would I a sinner deserve such a King, but he said to me, take up your mat and walk.

So if you call yourself christian and say I walk is self works, you do not know my King. How can a blind deaf and dumb man who now is alive and well walk in his own strength. Through my own weakness I make complete His glory.

I empathise with Paul, because He preached Christ crucified and nothing else and I echo that sentiment.

If you have another view which does not include this, then you do not know my Lord. I do not know your experiences or how you come to this place, but all I need to know is the King of Kings and his word in my heart.

The law is just a door saying do not enter until you know the King, because without Him you cannot know how you can meet these expectations. It is almost like the expectations have been set so you will reach out to Him for help, and He will answer.

The answer to your words on religion is righteousness and love. Follow Jesus and all will me made clear. Obey His commands.

(Blind deaf and dumb is a spiritual metaphor nor a physical reality)

 

[james57]

Whatever dude, you have issues, and you want to blame your issues on everyone but yourself. you refuse to take accountability for your own actions.

If I was as you say, I would fight and go to war with anyone who does not agree with me. It is obvious to anyone who knows me that is not true.

As I said, if I act the way you say I do. I would have been banned many times by now..

I've been told people have left this website because of what they describe as a pack of wolves have harrassed and gone after them. Yours was a name referred to as one of the pack
If that was me acting like that I would be thoroughly ashamed of myself, but i guess you dont have to worry do you with your version of grace do you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I stand because Jesus stands with me. I am righteous because Jesus made me righteous, taught me to talk and walk.
Only through Christ can you find God, because of Gods grace to us, His love in Jesus.

Why is it those who are called are eternally secure and can never be lost but must believe this is so to be eternally secure.
It is like saying unless you believe this you are lost, which means you are not secure and are lost. The security is in knowing Jesus and that alone. When I saw Jesus upon the cross I fell in awe, wonder, brokeness and praise. Why would I a sinner deserve such a King, but he said to me, take up your mat and walk.

So if you call yourself christian and say I walk is self works, you do not know my King. How can a blind deaf and dumb man who now is alive and well walk in his own strength. Through my own weakness I make complete His glory.

I empathise with Paul, because He preached Christ crucified and nothing else and I echo that sentiment.

If you have another view which does not include this, then you do not know my Lord. I do not know your experiences or how you come to this place, but all I need to know is the King of Kings and his word in my heart.

The law is just a door saying do not enter until you know the King, because without Him you cannot know how you can meet these expectations. It is almost like the expectations have been set so you will reach out to Him for help, and He will answer.

The answer to your words on religion is righteousness and love. Follow Jesus and all will me made clear. Obey His commands.

(Blind deaf and dumb is a spiritual metaphor nor a physical reality)

I am eternally secure for Many reasons, here are a few of them

1. In john 3 he said whoever has faith in him will never die buy has eternal life
2. He said in John 6 whoever has faith in him will never hunger in thirst, WIll never die, will live forever, has eternal life and will be raised on the last day
3/ He said in Eph 1: 13 - 14, that whoever has faith in him has the seal of the spirit as a guarantee of his salvation, and this seal will go until the day of redemption. he repeats this promise f the seal two other places in the NT
4. He said in heb 10 that he has perfected forever, those who are in the process of being sanctified



So tell me, Why do you not believe in eternal security? Why would you think God will fail?

 

[PeterJens]

I am eternally secure for Many reasons, here are a few of them

1. In john 3 he said whoever has faith in him will never die buy has eternal life
2. He said in John 6 whoever has faith in him will never hunger in thirst, WIll never die, will live forever, has eternal life and will be raised on the last day
3/ He said in Eph 1: 13 - 14, that whoever has faith in him has the seal of the spirit as a guarantee of his salvation, and this seal will go until the day of redemption. he repeats this promise f the seal two other places in the NT
4. He said in heb 10 that he has perfected forever, those who are in the process of being sanctified

So tell me, Why do you not believe in eternal security? Why would you think God will fail?

The issue is simply conditional on our faith. "whoever has faith in him will never die"

So we believe the same verses and can read the same verses. You project this into the future to be no matter how you walk it will still be true.

Now as I stated I do not know. You say with certainty, Judas was never born again. I am prepared to say this is all in the Lords hands, it does not change my relationship with Him.

As I stated before your faith in eternal security has no effect on those that are truly saved, so it serves no purpose, yet you say because I do not say with certainty no matter how you walk you are saved, I must not be. Do you see the failure in this logic. I cannot go beyond a promise, or project into areas I do not know which compromises the idea of choice.

You however want to say choice does not exist, it is all God, so therefore extend your theology to support it even though there is none. You then use this to condemn me.

Do you not see Paul saying beware temptation, that this is a risk, it is not certain, there is a battle on our part to stay pure and holy. But then for you that is impossible so there is no risk as you have never been cleansed in a real sense, so have nothing to loose.

 

[psalm6819]

The issue is simply conditional on our faith. "whoever has faith in him will never die"

So we believe the same verses and can read the same verses. You project this into the future to be no matter how you walk it will still be true.

Now as I stated I do not know. You say with certainty, Judas was never born again. I am prepared to say this is all in the Lords hands, it does not change my relationship with Him.

As I stated before your faith in eternal security has no effect on those that are truly saved, so it serves no purpose, yet you say because I do not say with certainty no matter how you walk you are saved, I must not be. Do you see the failure in this logic. I cannot go beyond a promise, or project into areas I do not know which compromises the idea of choice.

You however want to say choice does not exist, it is all God, so therefore extend your theology to support it even though there is none. You then use this to condemn me.

Do you not see Paul saying beware temptation, that this is a risk, it is not certain, there is a battle on our part to stay pure and holy. But then for you that is impossible so there is no risk as you have never been cleansed in a real sense, so have nothing to loose.[/QUOTE


Mr Jens perhaps you should study less theology and doctrine and more about the love of God. Please do not speak so harshly to your brethern, calling people "liars" is not expressing love the way Jesus would, in fact it reeks of judgement. A battle on our part to stay pure and holy?
Our part??? WE aren't pure and holy that is imputed to us by Jesus.

 

[royalscot]

There is certainly a lot of arrogance in these hyper grace folk and a lot of lying from one of them in particular

if opinion vary, and your connected with the true god. why would you make this statement. ie you could prove, who is lying, not just posting about speculation.( ie how do you think the truth sees you. )

change means change, it dont stop time, so why are you still thinking what is wrote on stone stays on stone, unless it connect past to future

 

[royalscot]

change mean change, wrote on stone, and wrote on paper, are two different, places in history. (and to see a pea brain logic , that don t need spiritual tools, but a voice) etc with out proof that would make you the liar. ie why else, would anyone , make that statement. )

 

[kathryn]

In a recent CharismaNews article, Dr. Michael Brown confronts what he calls the “dangerous error” of the hyper-grace movement. He describes the foundational doctrines of this movement as follows; (1) we have been made righteous by the blood of Jesus, (2) all our sins have been forgiven, (3) the Holy Spirit never convicts believers of sin, and (4) we need never repent for nor confess our sins.

All this sounds like the end of the world is upon us....Let's have a look at what is being said.....

“Confronting the Error of Hyper-Grace” – a response to Michael Brown – Escape to Reality

Wow I have never heard 3&4 before.

Does that mean if I got plastered one night I wouldn't be convicted I had done anything wrong, and I wouldn't need to repent or confess it to God?

 

[Grace777x70]

LOL..I think it means you should read the article..lol..that was funny..

Wow I have never heard 3&4 before.

Does that mean if I got plastered one night I wouldn't be convicted I had done anything wrong, and I wouldn't need to repent or confess it to God?

 

[kathryn]

LOL..I think it means you should read the article..lol..that was funny..

Whys it funny? Are you sinless?
Or do you categorise sin, some is acceptable and some isnt?

 

[Grace777x70]

Nope..I am not sinless..never will be until I get out of this body.

and Nope..I don't categorize sin..I think slander and malice is just as bad as adultery or murder

Whys it funny? Are you sinless?
Or do you categorise sin, some is acceptable and some isnt?

 

[kathryn]

Nope..I am not sinless..never will be until I get out of this body.

and Nope..I don't categorize sin..I think slander and malice is just as bad as adultery or murder

So if you are not perfect and you dont categorise sin, why is it funny if I say if I get plastered one night I shouldnt be convicted I have done anything wrong and I wont have to repent and confess it to God as sin according to points 3&4?

 

[Grace777x70]

I thought it was a funny way of looking at the points...that's all....did you have a chance to read the article?

 

[royalscot]

So if you are not perfect and you dont categorise sin, why is it funny if I say if I get plastered one night I shouldnt be convicted I have done anything wrong and I wont have to repent and confess it to God as sin according to points 3&4?

the problem is simple, to follow the full law of moses , you need temple of stone , because of the requirements of this law.(jewish) before christian opened the bible, there is no temple of stone, so logic would also teach , it is no good following only in part. ie a christian believes in a god through jesus christ.
to categorize sin, you would need a law. if you saved by grace a gift, then why are you looking at sin. (ie did you mum dad, not instruct a right and wrong , law ,as we grew from child to adult)

so playing the same old, jewish law v grace a gift. is why religion is blinding eyes , another key to understand, is if intellect is greater in 2015, then definitions to the 10 commandment, could go on for ever. and this law connects also the law of the land.( to the jewish people.) ie how dose that connect to our law of the land. ie who dont stay in isreal etc.

 

[kathryn]

the problem is simple, to follow the full law of moses , you need temple of stone , because of the requirements of this law.(jewish) before christian opened the bible, there is no temple of stone, so logic would also teach , it is no good following only in part. ie a christian believes in a god through jesus christ.
to categorize sin, you would need a law. if you saved by grace a gift, then why are you looking at sin. (ie did you mum dad, not instruct a right and wrong , law ,as we grew from child to adult)

so playing the same old, jewish law v grace a gift. is why religion is blinding eyes , another key to understand, is if intellect is greater in 2015, then definitions to the 10 commandment, could go on for ever. and this law connects also the law of the land.( to the jewish people.) ie how dose that connect to our law of the land. ie who dont stay in isreal etc.

Dont know why you brought following the full law of Moses up, I was just referring to points 3&4 in the initial post.

 

[PeterJens]

Wow I have never heard 3&4 before.

Does that mean if I got plastered one night I wouldn't be convicted I had done anything wrong, and I wouldn't need to repent or confess it to God?

3) the Holy Spirit never convicts believers of sin, and (4) we need never repent for nor confess our sins.

Grace7x77 lives in his own world devoid of connection to the real world. Sin is no problem to him, because he repents all the time, (changes his mind) and never has victory, because victory is given in Christ.

Many have been sucked into this movement without realising it is a denial of the gospel and the sanctification of sinner to saint.

If we talk of effort or work, then that is dead works which bear no benefit. All that remains in abiding in the spirit, which is not defined. Do they mean always praising, singing in the spirit, going to church or what?

But I suppose defining it would be works, so actually it is empty words.

In all the time they have never said what this is. They have quoted scripture, but this refers to a non-grace view, so it does not apply. They are oddly sinners who are righteous though they sin all the time and cannot stop it.

 

[Grace777x70]

Read the article again and it will answer those questions..

..we know you don't like the answers..and that's ok..my brother....everything is ok...

..be blessed and have a great Christmas with your family!

You are deeply loved, highly favor and greatly blessed!

3) the Holy Spirit never convicts believers of sin, and (4) we need never repent for nor confess our sins.

Grace7x77 lives in his own world devoid of connection to the real world. Sin is no problem to him, because he repents all the time, (changes his mind) and never has victory, because victory is given in Christ.

Many have been sucked into this movement without realising it is a denial of the gospel and the sanctification of sinner to saint.

If we talk of effort or work, then that is dead works which bear no benefit. All that remains in abiding in the spirit, which is not defined. Do they mean always praising, singing in the spirit, going to church or what?

But I suppose defining it would be works, so actually it is empty words.

In all the time they have never said what this is. They have quoted scripture, but this refers to a non-grace view, so it does not apply. They are oddly sinners who are righteous though they sin all the time and cannot stop it.

 

[PeterJens]

Read the article again and it will answer those questions..

Dear reader, Grace7x77 has arrived in glory. There is no more that needs to be done in his life, he walks in righteousness.

Now if he has any faults or sins, it is not his responsibility to deal with them, but Gods in Jesus.
He is powerless to walk the right path in the right way, because that is not what he is called to do.

So he admits he is a slave to sin, and Jesus however he has experienced him, has not freed him from sin or slavery to it, and there is nothing more that can be done.

I would conclude therefore he should stand in fear and trembling for the day of judgment, because there is no desire to flee from sin or even confront his own guilt. Now however this arrogance has been constructed he literally is incapable of seeing the wretchedness of his state or how he demeans the cross by his attitude. His conscience is so dull, nothing I say has any impact.

He would claim he could murder anyone and he would still not be guilty before the Lord of murder.

That to me is the definition of disfunctional insane behaviour and attitude, and would qualify him as a psychopath.

For me to murder someone would destroy my life, I would fall apart and that is just not getting to my relationship with the Lord. That is a normal human response, which walking in the Lord we should aspire to have all the time.

To walk in the Lord is to become more real and see things for what they really are. It is why Paul encouraged people to keep the peace and be held in high regard in society. It is also why we are called to be a light, a city on a hill, salt of the earth, reliable and trustworthy. It is not an act, it is what love and Jesus makes us into.

 

[Grace777x70]

I bless you Peter....have a safe and wonderful time with your family this Christmas!

Dear reader, Grace7x77 has arrived in glory. There is no more that needs to be done in his life, he walks in righteousness.

Now if he has any faults or sins, it is not his responsibility to deal with them, but Gods in Jesus.
He is powerless to walk the right path in the right way, because that is not what he is called to do.

So he admits he is a slave to sin, and Jesus however he has experienced him, has not freed him from sin or slavery to it, and there is nothing more that can be done.

I would conclude therefore he should stand in fear and trembling for the day of judgment, because there is no desire to flee from sin or even confront his own guilt. Now however this arrogance has been constructed he literally is incapable of seeing the wretchedness of his state or how he demeans the cross by his attitude. His conscience is so dull, nothing I say has any impact.

He would claim he could murder anyone and he would still not be guilty before the Lord of murder.

That to me is the definition of disfunctional insane behaviour and attitude, and would qualify him as a psychopath.

For me to murder someone would destroy my life, I would fall apart and that is just not getting to my relationship with the Lord. That is a normal human response, which walking in the Lord we should aspire to have all the time.

To walk in the Lord is to become more real and see things for what they really are. It is why Paul encouraged people to keep the peace and be held in high regard in society. It is also why we are called to be a light, a city on a hill, salt of the earth, reliable and trustworthy. It is not an act, it is what love and Jesus makes us into.

 

[kathryn]

I don't see how anyone can be powerless to walk the right path in the right way and remain a slave to sin if they die to the law and follow after the holy spirit.
According to Paul that is the way to overcome sin, not remain sins slave.

Paul didn't preach a negative gospel that saw no results