Who’s to blame for the fall?

[Just_A__Follower]

I’ve heard many discussing whether it was Adam’s fault or Eve’s fault when eating the fruit. But if Adam and Eve had not eaten from the tree yet, would they have known it was bad to defy God? Did they know death was bad?

The serpent obviously knew what evil was. If Adam and Eve knew not the difference between good and bad, I see it not as a serpent convincing a woman to do wrong. More of a predator preying upon a young unknowing innocent child. And we would never blame a child for what a predator had convinced them to do.

So was the fall ever man’s fault or does the fault solely lie with the evil one?

This is one that I’ve wrestled with. If blame solely rests upon the evil one, then why would God punish Adam and Eve? If blame rests upon all 3 then the punishment of all 3 as it happened would be just.

The only thing I can come up with is that Adam and Eve had some concept of good and bad before eating from the tree.

 

[Dino246]

While the serpent certainly influenced Eve, the root cause is on Adam, per Romans 5:12-14:

12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

While the serpent certainly influenced Eve, the root cause is on Adam, per Romans 5:12-14:

12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

So Adam would have had some sort of knowledge of good and bad before eating of the tree.

 

[Dino246]

So Adam would have had some sort of knowledge of good and bad before eating of the tree.

Not necessarily. He had knowledge of God's instruction not to eat of the tree, and of the consequences for doing so. Given that the tree from which he was not to eat is "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil", I suspect that Adam did not have an understanding of "good and bad" before eating.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Not necessarily. He had knowledge of God's instruction not to eat of the tree, and of the consequences for doing so. Given that the tree from which he was not to eat is "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil", I suspect that Adam did not have an understanding of "good and bad" before eating.

that’s where I wrestle with it. Would he have known it was bad to not listen to God or that death was bad? Did he know that it was good to follow rules and bad to break them?

 

[Dino246]

that’s where I wrestle with it. Would he have known it was bad to not listen to God or that death was bad? Did he know that it was good to follow rules and bad to break them?

Scripture does not clearly answer those questions. I would suggest that it is not worth your wrestling.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Scripture does not clearly answer those questions. I would suggest that it is not worth your wrestling.

True. Maybe I’m just thinking way too far into it. I tend to do that sometimes.

 

[Dino246]

True. Maybe I’m just thinking way too far into it. I tend to do that sometimes.

Understandable. I heard testimony from a new Christian recently; in the process of his coming to faith in Christ, he wrestled with many similar questions. Once he trusted Jesus, the importance of those questions melted away.

For myself, I've wrestled with many theological questions, and concluded that Scripture does not answer every question. For some, we need to seek the answer in God, and for others, it simply is not that important, or is based in human speculation (what-if questions).

 

[tablet123]

I’ve heard many discussing whether it was Adam’s fault or Eve’s fault when eating the fruit. But if Adam and Eve had not eaten from the tree yet, would they have known it was bad to defy God? Did they know death was bad?

The serpent obviously knew what evil was. If Adam and Eve knew not the difference between good and bad, I see it not as a serpent convincing a woman to do wrong. More of a predator preying upon a young unknowing innocent child. And we would never blame a child for what a predator had convinced them to do.

So was the fall ever man’s fault or does the fault solely lie with the evil one?

This is one that I’ve wrestled with. If blame solely rests upon the evil one, then why would God punish Adam and Eve? If blame rests upon all 3 then the punishment of all 3 as it happened would be just.

The only thing I can come up with is that Adam and Eve had some concept of good and bad before eating from the tree.

Adam and Eve acknowledged God as Creator and authority.

God told them not to eat of the forbidden tree so they knew it was wrong to eat of it.

Adam and Eve were created in the image of God.

Which is an innocent nature in flesh.

Adam and Eve could only know the reality of what God told them.

The tree was in the garden because God gave them a choice.

But it would of not came up in their mind to eat of that tree unless an outside source tempted them.

So God allowed Satan to tempt Eve which she said they could not eat of the tree for that is all she could think and know.

So Satan tempted her with an alternate reality that they would be as gods having an elevated position.

And Eve ate and sinned.

Then Eve was the outside source that tempted Adam showing she did not die and no harm came to her and I am sure told him what the serpent said.

And Adam ate and sinned.

Since Adam is the authority then the fall is because of him.

For if he did not eat of the tree then there would be no fall.

Eve probably would of been restored knowing that eating of the tree did nothing for her as a benefit.

And then she would be back to square one and would only know the reality God told her.

God did not say they could not eat of the tree of life.

Which they could eat of it when they were an innocent nature in flesh.

When God ousted them from the garden He protected the tree so they could not eat of it and live forever.

Which they would of been in a sinful condition with no reversal and there would be no salvation.

For it is probably because they might of wanted to go back to the tree of life and eat of that tree and reverse what they had done and the curse.

 

[Eli1]

I’ve heard many discussing whether it was Adam’s fault or Eve’s fault when eating the fruit. But if Adam and Eve had not eaten from the tree yet, would they have known it was bad to defy God? Did they know death was bad?

The serpent obviously knew what evil was. If Adam and Eve knew not the difference between good and bad, I see it not as a serpent convincing a woman to do wrong. More of a predator preying upon a young unknowing innocent child. And we would never blame a child for what a predator had convinced them to do.

So was the fall ever man’s fault or does the fault solely lie with the evil one?

This is one that I’ve wrestled with. If blame solely rests upon the evil one, then why would God punish Adam and Eve? If blame rests upon all 3 then the punishment of all 3 as it happened would be just.

The only thing I can come up with is that Adam and Eve had some concept of good and bad before eating from the tree.

I agree with this view too and the reason we were punished is to achieve growth and appreciation for God due to free-will.
This is a topic that has come up a few times in our Bible studies and the general consensus has been that the Devil is the primary cause but we had to pay a consequence in order to find out what disobedience to our Father gives you.

And since you mentioned their spiritual state to an innocent child who doesn't know what consequences are, I have linked this in the past discussions to when i was like 5 years old and my grandmother used to tell me not to get near the stove because i would get burned.
Not only i didn't listen to her but i thought she was making it up.
So, when my hands burned on the stove after i touched the surface i learned the consequences of actions in relation to words who come from those who love you.
I achieved appreciation for my grandmother and never doubted her anymore.

 

[mystic7]

It was Adams disobedience to Gods Word that caused the fall