Trump and Politics

[randyk]

Inclusive or Patriotic? Trump seems bewildered that even though his economy is doing well the numbers still indicate people don't like him. But I think it's pretty simple, really. The Republican program Trump supports is more patriotic than inclusive. Why do Democrats, the schools, the media, the entertainment all support a more "inclusive" model of politic? It's because the more "inclusive" model attracts more people, more political support, more customers, more money, more listeners, etc.

The more "patriotic" model has standards and may appear to look judgmental and racist. It may look bigoted. This is clearly going to look "hateful" to many people--particularly to people who don't *want* to have moral standards, or who want to live in lawless, less-confined ways. Democrats define their version of "democracy" as "inclusive," and wish to stitch together a wide assortment of disaffected people, or minorities. They wish to invite in illegal immigrants to stack up their census numbers of sanctuary states so that more congressman are permitted, growing the numbers of Democratic congressman, forming majorities in Congress.

Entertainers want support from a larger number of people, drawing from liberals who appeal to all, politically, religiously, and morally. That way they sell their product to more, and not less, people. The same with company executives who want to sell their wares to more, and not less, customers. Sports heroes, actors, musicians all want to sell to the highest number of people, without excluding the lowest common denominators. "Patriots" are going to lose out to a non-discriminating mass of people. Public schools are going to be oriented to the more "democratic" model because they are designed to apply to all. Higher Education wants to attract all, from any country or group, and not just those who support our Constitution.

So even if our economy is doing well, the campaign to take down Trump and his "patriotism" is going to have "teeth." No matter if his policies are healthiest for America, and in support of a true constitutional form of Democracy, he is going to be questioned by the media and branded "uncompassionate" and "bigoted." Putting America first seems more intuitive, but does not take hold where there are media blitzes that taint the political message. Perhaps 80% of America rejects the lawless inclusion of illegal hordes coming into America and doing damage to our society and schools. But looking these "illegals" in the eye draws upon compassionate hearts, and crime is ignored in favor of "inclusion."

Without standards, however, all the wealth we gain from selling to "all" will be "cheap money earned," and the money will be spent in a worthless, self-destructive way. It will be like sand spilling out between our fingers. I'm for a fewer, more quality-oriented politic. I'm for the obviously-needed "lawful behavior." I hope you feel the same?

 

[ResidentAlien]

To be patriotic is to be inclusive:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.—That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men,"—Declaration of Independence.​

 

[SomeDisciple]

Trump seems bewildered that even though his economy is doing well the numbers still indicate people don't like him.

Because his economy is mostly only good for people at the top. He didn't undo Biden's mess, he's just stopping the mess from getting progressively worse.

really. The Republican program Trump supports is more patriotic than inclusive

Civic nationalism is plenty inclusive, and any "exclusion" is based on what is reasonable for our citizens, that's how a country is supposed to work.

. Why do Democrats, the schools, the media, the entertainment all support a more "inclusive" model of politic? It's because the more "inclusive" model attracts more people, more political support,

The Democrats import foreign supporters at the expense of their naive constituents. Schools go along with it because they stand to gain financially. The media was bought-and with public money no less. Entertainers are paid for as well.

Entertainers want support from a larger number of people, drawing from liberals who appeal to all, politically, religiously, and morally. That way they sell their product to more, and not less, people. The same with company executives who want to sell their wares to more, and not less, customers. Sports heroes, actors, musicians all want to sell to the highest number of people, without excluding the lowest common denominators

No, because the imported foreign population negatively affects native population growth.
They also lose existing support from the patriot population.
This isn't economic pragmatism at all- CNN had to go on life support to accomplish this dirty deed. This was a scam, paid for by wealthy people who had bad intentions for the country.

But looking these "illegals" in the eye draws upon compassionate hearts, and crime is ignored in favor of "inclusion."

It draws on people that will pity them to the point that they demand the government do something about it so they don't have to feel all that pity anymore. If it was compassion, they'd do something about it themselves.

 

[randyk]

Because his economy is mostly only good for people at the top. He didn't undo Biden's mess, he's just stopping the mess from getting progressively worse.

Civic nationalism is plenty inclusive, and any "exclusion" is based on what is reasonable for our citizens, that's how a country is supposed to work.

The Democrats import foreign supporters at the expense of their naive constituents. Schools go along with it because they stand to gain financially. The media was bought-and with public money no less. Entertainers are paid for as well.

No, because the imported foreign population negatively affects native population growth.
They also lose existing support from the patriot population.
This isn't economic pragmatism at all- CNN had to go on life support to accomplish this dirty deed. This was a scam, paid for by wealthy people who had bad intentions for the country.

It draws on people that will pity them to the point that they demand the government do something about it so they don't have to feel all that pity anymore. If it was compassion, they'd do something about it themselves.

Reasonable, but we may have to disagree on some of this, and agree on some points. Thanks for the comments.

 

[SomeDisciple]

Reasonable, but we may have to disagree on some of this, and agree on some points. Thanks for the comments.

The bottom line need of a quality politic, and need for lawful behavior we can certainly agree on; provided our laws make any moral sense, which is unfortunately not a given.

 

[randyk]

The bottom line need of a quality politic, and need for lawful behavior we can certainly agree on; provided our laws make any moral sense, which is unfortunately not a given.

As I said, I agaree with some of your thoughtful sentiment. But I'll be more specific where we may disagree, at least in part.

1) Trump's economic policies are not just geared towards the rich. As a rich man himself he has certainly experienced the negative effects of over-taxation and over-regulation. I doubt he is thinking only of himself, but of companies that employ lots of people.

And I'm convinced he doesn't like the way the Left was taking the culture. In this I'm sure he wants to ensure that America is building its own wealth collectively, and not just by catering to Europe, China, and the rest of the world. Using tariffs is not just helping manufacturing here in the US, but also all of those people who work in factories.

2) I agree some wealthy people here in the US, in kahootz with foreign interests, sow discord in the US. The Democrat-controlled mainstream media doesn't care if it isn't popular or healthy in some respects. In the end they control the message, even if for a time it seems counterproductive.

For example, it's obvious that importing millions of illegal foreigners into our country, withtout processing them, is a bad thing. But once they've been "processed" through the media, they are accepted as objects of compassion, while conservatives are viewed as cold and hateful. I'm not sure if we're really disagreeing on this, but you were saying, "no."

3) I think it's way too cynical to say that Americans look illegals in the eye and don't feel genuinely concerned for them, that they simply throw it off on to the government to cover their guilty conscience. I've been there. I've talked to the illegals. I do have concern for them. And I certainly don't want the government to pick up the tab.

But again, you have some thoughts I respect. I'm just not sure I'm hearing everything you're trying to say? Anyway, thanks again for your thoughts on this!

 

[TruthDefender]

Did the graphics slightly change (ie. The bottom portion of the posts have all changed)??
I can no longer bring up all of those different faces regarding likes, dislikes, informative, agree, etc.

 

[TruthDefender]

Did the graphics slightly change (ie. The bottom portion of the posts have all changed)??
I can no longer bring up all of those different faces regarding likes, dislikes, informative, agree, etc.

 

[HeIsHere]

Did the graphics slightly change (ie. The bottom portion of the posts have all changed)??
I can no longer bring up all of those different faces regarding likes, dislikes, informative, agree, etc.

Yes, they have changed, they are working on an upgrade to be installed at some point with the various reactions available.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Did the graphics slightly change (ie. The bottom portion of the posts have all changed)??
I can no longer bring up all of those different faces regarding likes, dislikes, informative, agree, etc.

They seem to be gone and replaced with a Like button.

 

[SomeDisciple]

1) Trump's economic policies are not just geared towards the rich. As a rich man himself he has certainly experienced the negative effects of over-taxation and over-regulation. I doubt he is thinking only of himself, but of companies that employ lots of people.

That's what I was talking about when I said he didn't undo Biden's mess- a simple return to trickle-down economics is insufficient. This is plugging the leak without pumping out all the water all over the floor. "JOBS" was not the problem during Biden's presidency after the pandemic recovery; but Trump has been talking "jobs, jobs, jobs".... the problem is, and has been housing affordability since 2022. If he fails in this, then his economy is going to fail everywhere else because people need to be able to move where jobs are; but a high-price and illiquid housing market makes that difficult to impossible, and way riskier than it needs to be.

That is, unless you simply keep the country jam-packed with immigrants; then you can keep housing high, and fill your jobs with immigrants who will pack themselves like sardines into overpriced apartments... if that is the plan; the republicans will be gone and never come back into power again.

For example, it's obvious that importing millions of illegal foreigners into our country, withtout processing them, is a bad thing. But once they've been "processed" through the media, they are accepted as objects of compassion, while conservatives are viewed as cold and hateful. I'm not sure if we're really disagreeing on this, but you were saying, "no."

Conservatives are certainly portrayed as cold and hateful; but I don't think the leftists actually view them as such; they are simply lying. They know exactly what they are doing in using these immigrants as a political tool and weapon. Actual compassion isn't a major factor.

When I said "no" I was referring the idea that companies just wanted to serve more people etc. as if it were a matter of financial pragmatism. It's not. The left uses them for political leverage, and some republicans want to use them as leverage against the American working class... it's definitely not about growing their consumer base.

I think it's way too cynical to say that Americans look illegals in the eye and don't feel genuinely concerned for them, that they simply throw it off on to the government to cover their guilty conscience.

lol, I'm not saying pity implies a guilty conscience on their part. They just want to alleviate themselves of the feeling of pity. Christian compassion is the exception to the norm.

I've been there. I've talked to the illegals. I do have concern for them.

As a Christian should; but I don't think that is going to have a major affect on support for mass-deportations. I certainly wouldn't suggest that scaling back is something that needs to be done, or else that means were not compassionate, or concerned... or worse, just to keep republicans from losing centrists on the fringe of the left.

 

[TruthDefender]

Yes, they have changed, they are working on an upgrade to be installed at some point with the various reactions available.

Ok, good. Thanks for replying!

 

[TruthDefender]

They seem to be gone and replaced with a Like button.

Just found out via someone else that they are working on an upgrade.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Just found out via someone else that they are working on an upgrade.

Thanks, sounds good.

 

[randyk]

That's what I was talking about when I said he didn't undo Biden's mess- a simple return to trickle-down economics is insufficient. This is plugging the leak without pumping out all the water all over the floor. "JOBS" was not the problem during Biden's presidency after the pandemic recovery; but Trump has been talking "jobs, jobs, jobs".... the problem is, and has been housing affordability since 2022. If he fails in this, then his economy is going to fail everywhere else because people need to be able to move where jobs are; but a high-price and illiquid housing market makes that difficult to impossible, and way riskier than it needs to be.

That is, unless you simply keep the country jam-packed with immigrants; then you can keep housing high, and fill your jobs with immigrants who will pack themselves like sardines into overpriced apartments... if that is the plan; the republicans will be gone and never come back into power again.

One thing Trump is trying to do is to stop corporate investment in houses. This practice drives up home prices and forms virtual monopolies on home prices. Rent control is, I think, a bad practice, which is what some Democrats advocate for.

Trickle-down economics is a reality. Not everybody is at the top of the ladder. Not all have their own business. Those with money need to be encouraged to invest, or lose their money. That way everybody benefits. An increase of products drives down prices, makiing things more affordable.

Conservatives are certainly portrayed as cold and hateful; but I don't think the leftists actually view them as such; they are simply lying. They know exactly what they are doing in using these immigrants as a political tool and weapon. Actual compassion isn't a major factor.

I don't agree. I run into TDS all the time, and their main complaint appears to be that Conservatives don't care for the poor, disabled, minorities, women, children, immigrants, etc. I don't think this is just a Left-wing scheme--it is what they actually believe. I just don't think socialist idealism works--it would if people were sinless, but they aren't. Controlling the masses by the efficient consolidation of power in the hands of a few *always* leads to corruption.

When I said "no" I was referring the idea that companies just wanted to serve more people etc. as if it were a matter of financial pragmatism. It's not. The left uses them for political leverage, and some republicans want to use them as leverage against the American working class... it's definitely not about growing their consumer base.

You don't think companies want to grow their consumer base??? That is what Capitalism is all about!

lol, I'm not saying pity implies a guilty conscience on their part. They just want to alleviate themselves of the feeling of pity. Christian compassion is the exception to the norm.

I do think people feel guilty whenever they have more than the next person, who is cold and lonely and out in the snow.

As a Christian should; but I don't think that is going to have a major affect on support for mass-deportations. I certainly wouldn't suggest that scaling back is something that needs to be done, or else that means were not compassionate, or concerned... or worse, just to keep republicans from losing centrists on the fringe of the left.

Right, I don't think compassion for illegals is going to drive the agenda. It just drredges up support from the populace for a Left-wing agenda, in my opinion. Drive up the census numbers in Democrat states, and allow for illegals to vote for Democratic policies that enable them and provide for them financially.

 

[SomeDisciple]

One thing Trump is trying to do is to stop corporate investment in houses.

It wasn't a priority until recently, when the republicans realized "oh, the base is starting to crack, maybe we need to listen". I certainly agree that it needs to be done; but it will have a relatively low impact on the markets, as corporate investors account for 2% of single family homes.

Trickle-down economics is a reality.

Sure, when we make it a reality it is; but that's a start; not a goal. When Trump was running he said "it's going to get worse before it gets better"; but then expected everyone to act like he *POOF*ed America into a golden age instantaneously when he was sworn in. I don't think we are going to convince anybody by pretending.

Those with money need to be encouraged to invest, or lose their money.

If they're are going to try and sell the idea that people need to buy stocks in order to eventually afford a home; they're gonna lose.

I don't agree. I run into TDS all the time, and their main complaint appears to be that Conservatives don't care for the poor, disabled, minorities, women, children, immigrants, etc. I don't think this is just a Left-wing scheme--it is what they actually believe.

We will see how they really feel when Trump flips (or pretends to flip) on immigration policy. It will be a blast.

You don't think companies want to grow their consumer base??? That is what Capitalism is all about!

The businessmen arguing for immigrants are not doing it to import consumers. America does not have a consumer shortage without immigrants. They want immigrant labor- is what I'm saying.

Right, I don't think compassion for illegals is going to drive the agenda.

Oh. I thought your OP was saying that it was; because the left was still not impressed with Trump's economic success. Of course they're not... the working class doesn't care about the S&P numbers. The 2025 economy was still heavily impacted by Joe Biden/Democrat policies. This year should be more reflective of Trump's changes, and there's still time for them to be impressed.

 

[randyk]

It wasn't a priority until recently, when the republicans realized "oh, the base is starting to crack, maybe we need to listen". I certainly agree that it needs to be done; but it will have a relatively low impact on the markets, as corporate investors account for 2% of single family homes.

Thanks, I didn't realize that corporate investment was that low of a percentage. Perhaps I was thinking of investment overall, both corporate and small-time investers, which is a much larger number. Perhaps the plan is to discourage the *growth* of corporate investment with its very large money supply?

Sure, when we make it a reality it is; but that's a start; not a goal. When Trump was running he said "it's going to get worse before it gets better"; but then expected everyone to act like he *POOF*ed America into a golden age instantaneously when he was sworn in. I don't think we are going to convince anybody by pretending.

Your prediction. I think that the formula: cut taxes and regulation, plus digging for oil = a possible golden future.

If they're are going to try and sell the idea that people need to buy stocks in order to eventually afford a home; they're gonna lose.

The idea is to get people with money to invest--not just in stocks, but in anything--stocks, real estate, businesses, or even families. Just letting the rich get richer does nothing for society except make the people serfs.

We will see how they really feel when Trump flips (or pretends to flip) on immigration policy. It will be a blast.

Like the Democrat politicians haven't flipped on immigration policy?

The businessmen arguing for immigrants are not doing it to import consumers. America does not have a consumer shortage without immigrants. They want immigrant labor- is what I'm saying.

And I'm saying that business wants cheap immigrant labor *as well as* more consumers to buy their products after the government has given them loads of financial aid. Yes, they do hope to import voters, laborers, and consumers.

Oh. I thought your OP was saying that it was; because the left was still not impressed with Trump's economic success. Of course they're not... the working class doesn't care about the S&P numbers. The 2025 economy was still heavily impacted by Joe Biden/Democrat policies. This year should be more reflective of Trump's changes, and there's still time for them to be impressed.

You think people are disinterested in their 401Ks?? Of course the people are impressed with the idea that we are the most powerful, the wealthiest country in the world! Or, maybe they just want to sell out to world government, in order to achieve a greater sense of peace and equality??