I have a few thoughts on the identities of the two beasts of the apocalypse. Enclosed find a paper I wrote a few years back. Please forgive the condition of the text, it is a bit marked up.
The two Beasts of Revelation 13 Identified
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For some reason the link to the outside post was deleted. If you want to read the paper enter "The two Beasts of Revelation Identified scribd" on the search bar of your search engine and follow the link to the paper.
Grr. OK, here is the URL in plain text. https://www.scribd.com/document/421495943/The-two-beasts-of-Revelation-Identified
Note that despite my efforts to the contrary this keeps resolving as a link. If the Webmaster objects to this it may not remain up.
Note that despite my efforts to the contrary this keeps resolving as a link. If the Webmaster objects to this it may not remain up.
Note. There is an advertisement for a book with an offensive name next to the post of my paper out on scribd. Somebody might be objecting to this. As an alternative here is a link to another Christian site "The Puritinan Board" where it is posted in two parts.
The two Beasts of Revelation 13 Identified
The two Beasts of Revelation 13 Identified
there's no prohibition against posting links. that's why there's an 'insert link' button
I can tell you this though, garnered from the responses that I have read, the first beast/antichrist and the second beast/false prophet, are yet future and will be working together. When Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, both the beast and the false prophet will be captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire. This, without a doubt, would put these two beasts as being in the same time period.
Regarding what dhchristian said "In a sense we have had that Kingdom of Iron Mixed with clay up to this day" I do not agree with that, because that ten-toed kingdom of partly iron and partly baked clay will be the last kingdom, of which the first beast will rule over. The second beast, which is later referred to as the false prophet, will be the head of the one-world religious system. My bet is that the false prophet will be played by a future pope.
Roman Catholicism believes that every human being should come under the authority of the pope and Roman Catholicism (RC). For many years in times past, those who resisted that counterfeit church were imprisonment, confiscation of property, tortured and being burned at the stake. The popes of old controlled kings and their armies under the threat of excommunication. Since then the popes and its church have desired to get back the power she once had. It is the first beast who will put back into power the seat of the pope and Roman Catholicism as the one-world false religious system, with the pope playing the part of the false prophet.
There are already over 1.2 billion Roman Catholics. What do you think is going to happen when that future pope begins to perform those miracles, signs and wonders, even causing fire to come down out of heaven? The devout will be even more so and will draw all of the false Christian sects to it, coming under the woman who rides the beasts authority, which is Roman Catholicism. She's that great city that ruled over the kings of the earth and who sits on seven hills/mountains. She is that woman clothed in purple and scarlet, which are the exact colors worn by the bishops and cardinals of Roman Catholicism.
And I also agree with and teach the same that Dennis1209 mentioned in his post in that, John was told to write:
What you have seen = Everything written from Rev.1:1 to Rev.1:19
What is now = Represented by the seven letters to the churches and in fact represents the entire church period
What will take place later = everything that takes place after the "what is now," i.e. everything that takes place after the church period
That said, we are currently still in the "what is now" part of what John was told to write. When the Lord comes to gather His church, then the "what will take place later" will begin.
I got a question: Can the pope be an antichrist if he claims to believe Jesus came in the flesh and is the son of God?
Maybe if they lie? I dont know.
Scripture states that "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a curse!"
Scripture also states that there are Lord's many and gospels many.
The pope believes in and teaches another Lord and another gospel. We can't be forgiven for our sins by reciting the rosary. Nor are we to confess our sins to priests so that they can absolve us. I could go on to the teachings of the worship of Mary, purgatory, transubstantiation and many other teachings of Roman Catholicism, which are not supported by scripture.
My point is that, there are other beliefs and practices that allow us to recognize a false teachers.
The 2 beasts the antichrist and the false prophet are in the future, and is the time for God to allow the world a certain amount of time to have their way and cause all people who do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom in Revelation 13 and then He will put them down.
Israel has 70 weeks, 490 years, to make an end of sin, being in everlasting righteousness, and anoint the most holy who is Jesus, which the time started before Jesus came for they were not in the truth for if they were the Roman Empire would of never controlled Jerusalem.
69 weeks have passed with one week to go which is the time God causes all people that do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom, and brings Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah and God.
It is time for God to end this sin business on earth, and restore the kingdom to Israel which the disciples asked Jesus if He would restore the kingdom at that time, and He said the Father will do it in His time.
Which God will gather the whole house of Israel, all 12 tribes back to their land, and leave none of them in the nations anymore, and they shall know the LORD their God from that time forward, and He will never hide His face from them again, and the heathen shall know that Israel went in to captivity and their enemies ruled over them because of their sins and iniquities against God, but that He was always on their side and will restore the kingdom to them after they have borne their shame.
Which Israel is blinded in part, which they acknowledge the Old Testament for the most part but not the New, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in, when salvation is no longer available to them, and so all Israel shall be saved, which God will make a full end of all Gentile governments but not make a full end of Israel although she will not be altogether wholly unpunished.
Daniel 7 says that the 4th beast the Roman Empire does not lose her dominion until Jesus puts her down, and she will become 10 horns which is the world split in to 10 sections with a leader in each section, which they shall devour the whole earth, tread it down, and break it in pieces, and the antichrist will come from them, and even though all nations governments came together the Roman Empire has the dominion.
It is obvious when the Roman Empire embraced Christianity that they did not get rid of their occult, pagan ways, but held unto them and it became their foundation for the interpreting of scriptures, and since the Roman Catholic Church is their religious institution they will change to become compatible with the plan that is going on in the world, and the Pope will be the religious leader, and the Vatican the headquarters of a unified religious system.
Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece also have not fallen yet, which they will never have physical dominion again, but their ways are still on earth, which in Daniel 2 the statute of a man does not fall until Jesus hits the feet of the statute the 10 toes, horns, and then it falls and all their ways are no more.
Which Babylon represents human religion, the occult, and the kingdom of man after they blew it from following the God of Israel as the greatest of all the gods.
Medo-Persia represents physical cruelty.
Greece represents human wisdom.
The Roman Empire represents pushing for power, territory, world domination.
The 4 ways of people which although all 4 kingdoms went by all 4 ways one of those ways was their chief mode of operation with the other 3 minor to that operation.
And they all show up at the beast kingdom the kingdom of man in it's entirety for it is not longer a chief mode and the other 3 minor to that but it is all 4 kingdoms chief mode of operation in that kingdom, which is a kingdom that has never been before on earth, and the worse one of all.
The Roman Empire has the dominion and is Babylon in spirit for she has not fallen yet for her ways are still on earth which she represents human religion, the occult, and the kingdom of man.
God warns the saints of the new age movement and their false interpretation of the Bible based on the occult, and evolution, and people can still evolve to be greater and spiritual, and Jesus is not Lord and Savior but a good teacher and love, and evolved to become an ascended master and avatar, and do not acknowledge a personal God but honor the God of forces, or the power of nature as their higher power the evolutionary process.
They will forbid to marry for population reduction, and command to be a vegan.
Which the time will come that the world will not want to endure the truth of the Bible but want to want to hear it according to their own lusts not believing in a personal God, and wanting to evolve to be greater and spiritual having greater power and intellect.
Which is the new age movement which is the future for this world, and the one world religious system, and the beginning of the end for the wicked, and will pave the way to the beast kingdom.
People say conspiracy this, and conspiracy that, and one world government, and New World Order, but the new age movement is the agenda and conspiracy, and evolution is the culprit for they believe they are still evolving so they pursue that and abandon a personal God and rebel against Him by going against the truth on a world wide level.
The man of sin, New Age Christ, will establish peace in the Middle East and it will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel for the Gentile nations will see to it, and the New Age Christ wants them all back on their land, but God means it for good towards the Jews.
The Jews will have a new temple and go back to animal sacrifices for they are blinded in part with no hassle from the Palestinians, and the Jews will split Jerusalem with the Palestinians.
The Gentile governments will come together and say Peace and safety as they try to establish peace on earth, and the 7 years period will begin.
For the first three and one half years repentance and salvation is still available to the world, and the new age movement the unified religious system, and anything taught contrary to it is not tolerated for they say it is not the truth and they want peace.
But there is problems during the reign of the 10 horn kingdom who will rule for a short space, and a war between Islam and the world the 6th trumpet which a third of the world perishes, and 3 horns, sections of the world are plucked up by the roots which covers the Arab nations, and describes nuclear weapons as to why there is so much destruction.
Which that war is so terrible and the 10 horn kingdom failed at obtaining peace that the world turns to the New Age Christ as the solution to have peace on earth which God said after the 6th trumpet that the world will not repent of their sins and turn to Him but keep trying to obtain peace on earth by their own power so He gives them the man of sin to rule over them.
Which the 6 trumpets are warnings to the world to turn to God but after the 6th trumpet they do not do that.
Which an example is WW1, did not turn to God, set up League of Nations, WW2, did not turn to God, set up United Nations, and that pattern will continue until the 6th trumpet Islam against the world, did not turn to God, so He gives them the man of sin to rule them which is when the transgressors are come to the full.
Then a king of fierce countenance and understanding dark sentences shall stand up, and he shall be mighty but not by his own power, but by the power of Satan which God is allowing him to influence the world more than in the past for he is not restrained like the past, and will be off his leash concerning the wicked, which is symbolic of him coming out of the bottomless pit.
When they follow the New Age Christ and take the mark of the beast then repentance and salvation is no longer available to the world, and the fulness of the Gentiles have come in.
The antichrist will be the New Age Christ that established peace with Israel and the Palestinians that comes from the Roman Empire, and the false prophet will be the Pope who is following the new age movement interpretation of the Bible.
God will then turn Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah and God for the last three and one half years, and at the end of that time Israel as a nation will be in the truth.
Evolution is the culprit as to why they rebel against God for the occult started interpreting all religions that way, and they want power through nature and believe it is possible so they pursued it and it became bigger and they slowly went about the plan to establish a kingdom based on the occult, evolution, and no personal God, but doing the will of nature the evolutionary process.
But technology and evolution go hand in hand for evolution is the motive, and technology is the reason they could communicate with each other, and travel to each other to be able to come together.
The beast and the false prophet are in the future and they rule because it is time for God to end this sin business on earth so He has to allow the world a certain amount of time to have their way and cause all people who do not love Him to follow the New Age Christ.
I see a lot of dispensationalist flavored objections to this construct. I beg you to consider biblical consistancy. If successively arising beasts represents successively arising kingdoms in Daniel it should represent the same thing in Revelation. The formal similarities between the fourth beast of Daniel's vision and the first beast of John's vision are so strong that the reader should at least consider that the two seers are here referring to the same kingdom. The myriad distortions to the Gospel introduced by the later ostensibly Christian empire are more than enough to merit the label false prophet.
I would offer another way of looking at that.
We would have to let the bible define what a antichrist singular is (the spirit of lies), and how that applies to many. . .antichrists plural . The many are the antichrists, men that Satan a unseen spirit the antichrist, works in. He was a liar from the beginning the father of lies..
Many today have turned that into as if it was a sign and wonder. . pending they find the right face of man as if we did wrestles against flesh and blood the things seen the temporal and not after the eternal faith of Christ as it is written. .
The Pope could be one of the many antichrists today. Claiming to sit in the seat of Peter who blasphemed the Son of man in respect to Jesus's flesh .Peter, forbidding Jesus from doing the will of the father not seen, destroying the gospel key.
Many antichrists where there when the new testament was written in these last days. The same anti spirit that worked in the garden.( You shall not die) Perhaps a thousand different sects, as a multitude of those who insisted we need an man seen to teach us. We are lovingly warned of those antichrists..
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist (singular) shall come, even now are there many antichrists; (plural) whereby we know that it is the last time.
The wonderful warning.
1 John 2:26-27 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him
Its how I beleive we know we are in the last days signified by a thousand years, a unknown.
Peter as it seems is used to help us understand what it means for a Christian wwhen they deny Christ in unbelief .A God who cannot deny His own self . . if he has begun the good work of salvation in us. Christ our confidence promises He will finish it till the last day.
Peter in that way was used as one of the many antichrists in Mathew 16. He was forgiven of his blasphemy of the Son of man Jesus. Today there can be no forgiveness against the Holy Spirit not seen.
In regard to the claims of the Pope who must be called Holy Father for him to believe Jesus came in the flesh and is the son of God. They deny the unseen Father as a law of the fathers oral traditions of men .refusing to obey the commandment to call no man on earth father .One unseen is the Holy Father in heaven. They that look to the flesh have neither the father or the Son .
The Father and the Son are one Spirit as a dynamic dual working as one to bring the peace of God surpasses our understanding as a living hope.. They were warned to call no man father on earth .They refuse to hear His voice as it is written but rather follow after the voice of what the scriptures refer to as a daysman, antichrists. . . many .
The 2 beasts, the antichrists and the false prophet are one and the same. . . the father of lies working in the hard heart of unbelief. . Its what antichrists do. Bring false prophecy as oral traditions of men. The gospel as it is written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) does not fit there idea of a relationship with God .They have there own laws after a false zeal for knowing God .Making the word of God without effect by their traditions.
Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
I am going to write on a subject that is a little bit off topic for me. There is a lot of catholic bashing judgement in this thread. I know all about the errors of the Roman Church, I debate my Catholic friends over these issues when they are open to it. Just consider Gideon, who set up an ephod that was a snare to Isreal and made the Roll Call of the author of Hebrews, David who murdered Uriah and is considered a type of Christ, Soloman who married foriegn wives that led Israel astray and is cited by Jesus as archtypical of Godly wisdom. There is not a great saint in the Bible who is not guilty of some great crime or another, with the exception of Christ himself. Please consider his words to the mob who brought him the woman caught in the act of adultery who was about to be stoned. "Let ye among you who is without sin cast the first stone".
How can they be one and the same when the Bible says that they are not? You should not be inventing your own theology. The Bible presents an UNHOLY TRINITY as well as the Holy Trinity. And the Unholy Trinity consists of (1) Satan, (2) the Beast the Antichrist, and (3) the False Prophet (Rev 20:10).
And [1] the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [2] the beast and [3] the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
I live in a Catholic country, and believe me, they have no problem in condeming all who are not Catholic. As for bashing, it is difficult not to when you see people pray to, sing to and screaming to man-made images of man mad saints, and figures fromt he Bible without giving all glory to God. I do not bash them per se, but I will mention any practice that is ant-Christ when it shows up...…...….that would be any denomination led by a man in the flesh who is deemed by his followers as infallible….... This is far from bashing.
As I mentioned in my post, I have no problem with pointing out errors in Catholic doctrine. I do it myself when I judge that some one is ready to receive a rebuke. But these blanket condemnations are not Christ like. And some of the conspiracy theories that have been posted here are almost paranoid. The Catholic church lost most of its teeth when it lost State sponsorship after the first World War. Now it is just another denomination competing for members like any Protestant Church is. If the Holy Spirit abandons it completely then it will wither and die like any other man made attempt to please God will.
The pope may be an anti-christ but he will not be THE Anti-Christ of the end times.. If the catholic church is the Harlot that sits upon the beast in the book of revelation as many people believe then it is impossible for any pope to be the anti-christ because the horns on the beast will hate the harlot and burn her with fire.. The Anti-christ is going to destroy the harlot..
Revelation 17: KJV
16 "And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. {17} For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled."
How could we separate the beast of the field of clay. . . natural converted mankind (666) from the unseen spirit of the false prophecy. . Satan ?
Not familiar with the idea of holy trinity or unholy trinity . Three does establish the end of a matter in various parables . Two is used to represent the church .The two become one. He sent them out as apostles two by two .
God is not a man as us. They are attributes used to describe His one Spirit . Eternal God remains without mother or father beginning of life or end thereof.
God is one Spirit who performed the one "work of faith" as if two were working together in perfect harmony and submissiveness.Together as of work of faith they bring the peace of God that surpasses all understanding.
Can't separate the beast of the field of clay, mankind (plural antichrists) from the spirit of error Satan, (antichrist singular). The plural antichrists and singular form, antichrist, must be taken into account. Apart from each other they have no voice.
Death in regard to the "letter of the law" on the last day will be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, never to condemn a whole creation for ever and ever.
Peter is used as one of the many antichrists . . a false prophet. He was forgiven of his blasphemy of the Son of man . Blasphemy against the unseen Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven.
Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.(the false prophecy)
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Mathew 16: 22-23
Can't separate the false prophets (antichrists as beasts ) from the spirit of the father of lies that works in them anymore than the works of the Holy Spirit that works in us to both will and perform the good pleasure of God not seen.
The beast and the false prophets are one in the same spirit of error. ,