The Twelve Princes, Sons of Ishmael

[JaumeJ]

Does anyone know the significance of the mention of the twelve sons of Ishamael listed also as princes? I have always thought it has some meaning, but I thought I would come to the Arab forum for insight on this event. Thank you. شكرا لكم
That Arabic is copied and pasted...........

 

[leonardronaldo]

Biblical Ishmael wasn't an Arab.
I believe Arabs more likely are descendants from Joktan (Qahtan in Arabic).
Although that doesn't mean there is no possibility that there are grandchildren of Ishmael who married to the grandchildren of Joktan.

 

[tripsin]

Biblical Ishmael wasn't an Arab.
I believe Arabs more likely are descendants from Joktan (Qahtan in Arabic).
Although that doesn't mean there is no possibility that there are grandchildren of Ishmael who married to the grandchildren of Joktan.

I read this somewhere, that the six sons of Abraham out of Keturah (Genesis 25:1.) are ancestors of the Arabian tribes. Anyone have more info on that? Thanks.

 

[RuthHannah]

Genesis 16


9 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.
10 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
11 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction.
12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren

 

[st_sebastian]

The word there is probably better translated as "captain" or "chief." It can mean a captain of a group of military men, but here it means the leader of a tribe.

To me, these aren't princes in the way we think of European princes. Each son went off and was the patriarch of a tribe. There were lots of these at the time because we hadn't really come together into modern cities or states. If you had enough kids and moved out to a farm, your grandkids could even call you one of these.

 

[tripsin]

Genesis 16


9 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.
10 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
11 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction.
12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren

I noticed something interesting one day. Ishmael was born to 'Abram' not 'Abraham' (before God changed his name to Abraham). And it wasn't until after God renamed him that He made His covenant with him (Gen. 17:7); "But My covenant I will establish with Isaac."

Both Abraham and Sarah where renamed after Ishmael was born. And after Isaac was born, God referred to Isaac as Abraham's only son (Gen. 22:2, 12 and 16).

 

[JaumeJ]

[TABLE="class: gt-baf-table"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 4"]Some of the modern and old definitions of "nasim," which I believe could also be defined as lords of the tribes.
noun
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]

president​

[/TD]
[TD]נָשִׂיא
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]

chief​

[/TD]
[TD]רֹאשׁ, רֹאשׁ, מְפַקֵד, נָשִׂיא, מַנהִיג, פַּקָד
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]

prince​

[/TD]
[TD]נָסִיך, נָשִׂיא, נָגִיד, שַׂר
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]

king​

[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[didymos]

I just know the 13th warrior was an arab.