Okay man. To see who hung beside Jesus who Jesus told today he would dwell with him in Paradise. I go to a different website so I can learn how to talk to people to witness. Now I believe everything Jesus says. I had pastors on there get mad cuz I would argue with them. They claim since Jesus was not in Paradise that day then there's no way that the thief went to heaven. Now the thief claimed he was worthy of his death because of his wrong which is a sign of repentance. He did not ask Christ to take him down off the cross and claim his innocence. He said Christ was innocent his claim more or less sorry about paraphrasing. Anyway lots of commentaries say on Bible hub that the thief did inherit Paradise. So it's hard to believe so many theologians and so many people out there say that the thief did go to heaven. I'm not trying to knock anybody. I've been argued with claiming that the thief had no life service to Christ. Sounds to me like some pastors have an issue with somebody getting saved at the last minute. I believe Jesus can save anybody at any point in their life. Any comments I'm open I'm not going to argue with you like I did on quora though.
The thief that was promised paradise
- Thread starter Mikemo
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1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
1Jn 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
Jesus is a visible image of the invisible God and the way He gave salvation.
Which God gave His own human body to take away our sins.
Jesus is God and man and when He worked in Israel He could speak from the viewpoint of being God or the man Christ Jesus.
Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Joh 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
No person ascended to heaven before Jesus did.
Which Enoch and Elijah were taken up but could of not been the place where Jesus went for no person will ascend there before Him.
Also Jesus said He was on earth and heaven at the same time for He is God showing a visible image on earth and also an omnipresent Spirit so He would be in heaven at the same time.
Jesus did not ascend to heaven yet so the thief could not of went to heaven from the cross for the man Christ Jesus did not go to heaven from the cross and He must be the first one.
And no person can go up to heaven at the same time of Jesus for He had to put the blood on the mercy seat before any other person could go up.
Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Paradise
paradeisos
par-ad'-i-sos
Of Oriental origin (compare [H6508]); a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”): - paradise.
2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
John was alive in the flesh but in the spirit when he wrote Revelation and was caught up to paradise but he could not go to the heaven that Jesus ascended to for he was alive in the flesh.
John went up to paradise so did the thief so the thief could on not went to be with Jesus when he descended.
Psa 63:9 But those that seek my soul, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth.
Eph 4:9 Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Hell is in the lower parts of the earth which Jesus went there for 3 days to conquer hell and death.
So the thief could of not went to heaven that day with Jesus for Jesus did not ascend to heaven.
But Jesus is an omnipresent Spirit so the thief was with Him in paradise but it was not the heaven that Jesus would ascend to.
Mat 20:1 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
Mat 20:2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
Mat 20:3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
Mat 20:4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.
Mat 20:5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
Mat 20:6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
Mat 20:7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
Mat 20:8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
Mat 20:9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
Mat 20:10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
Mat 20:11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
Mat 20:12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
Mat 20:13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
Mat 20:14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
Mat 20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
For pastors that do not like someone getting saved at the last minute this parable is saying it does not matter how long a person has been saved they each get the same reward.
For people that are on their death bed and then confess Christ it seems like they are not sincere at least a lot of them probably very few.
If they were truly sorry for their sins they would of confessed Christ earlier.
They went their whole lives not accepting Christ living how they wanted and enjoyed sin.
And now they want to confess Christ.
They cannot enjoy sins anymore so they might as well give it a shot.
They have doubt about it but confess Christ in case it is true but that is not faith.
There might be a few that are sincere but it does not make sense they did not do it sooner.
The people who labored one hour symbolizing being saved for a short time were not on their death bed.
Luke 23:43
New International Version
43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
John 19:30
New International Version
30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
John 20
New International Version
11 Now Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb 12 and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus’ body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.
13 They asked her, “Woman, why are you crying?”
“They have taken my Lord away,” she said, “and I don’t know where they have put him.” 14 At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.
15 He asked her, “Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?”
Thinking he was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.”
16 Jesus said to her, “Mary.”
She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”).
17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
18 Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them that he had said these things to her.
Mark 16:19
New International Version
19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.
New International Version
43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
John 19:30
New International Version
30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
John 20
New International Version
11 Now Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb 12 and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus’ body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.
13 They asked her, “Woman, why are you crying?”
“They have taken my Lord away,” she said, “and I don’t know where they have put him.” 14 At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.
15 He asked her, “Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?”
Thinking he was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.”
16 Jesus said to her, “Mary.”
She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”).
17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
18 Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them that he had said these things to her.
Mark 16:19
New International Version
19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.
Jesus told him that day he would be with Him in paradise.
-- therefore, he surely was.
with Christ in paradise? that's not a 'condemned' condition but a 'saved' one - - it's incredibly good news!
whenever someone's theology doesn't allow them to believe what the Lord says, there's a problem with that theology.
My comment:
The Word of God is Truth, that is a fact, therefore, we must use the Word to prove everything.
Here are the facts according to the Word of God.
Luke 23
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Fact: there are no commas or periods in the Bible.
move the comma --I say unto thee Today, -- shalt thou be with me in paradise
now remember Jesus stated repeatedly, He would be in the Grave for 3 days and 3 nights
Christ also stated there are 12 hours in a day and according the Genesis 1: 5 a God day is the 12 hours of light -- Therefore; just the 3 - 12 hour periods of light is 36 hours now add the 12 hours of night.
Christ was dead for 72 hours or he is not our savior. The 3 days and 3 night are the only "sign" given He is our savior.
Not finished,
John 20
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Here we are the morning of the first day of the week, after 3 days and 3 nights and Jesus states --He has not yet ascended to His Father. So Christ did not go directly to heaven at death and neither did the thief.
According to facts, the thief is dead and buried and not in heaven and not saved.
but at the second resurrection he will be raised back to human life and given his one opportunity to live for ever.
Revelations 20: 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
see Ezekiel 37
Also, our reward is not heaven, Christ stated no one has gone to heaven but Him, and according to Hebrews 11, all are dead waiting for the first resurrection.
our reward is eternal life, not heaven.. please show any verse explaining the purpose of going to heaven, or what the saved would do in heaven, any verse stating our reward is living in heaven.
Jesus Christ stated; Revelation 5: 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Jesus Christ is coming for the second time to earth to rule as KING of Kings, with a rod of iron.
Those in the first resurrection are the Kings ruling with Christ here on earth.
The original greek manuscript had no punctuation.
23:43 καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ ἀμήν σοι λέγω σήμερον μετ᾽ ἐμοῦ ἔσῃ ἐν τῷ παραδείσῳ
and he said to him truly to you I am saying today with me you will be in paradise."
This means that there was no comma shown in the original sentence., making the sentence ambiguous.
Either,
1. And he said to him, "Truly to you I am saying today, with me you will be in paradise."
Or,
2. And he said to him, "Truly to you I am saying, today with me you will be in paradise."
If Jesus' soul went to hades upon death, #1 is correct.
If Jesus went to paradise upon death, #2 is correct.
The verse itself is indeterminate. But if Ps. 18 is Messianic, it appears Jesus went to the hot place, where the rich man went, not to Abraham's bosom where Lazarus and the penitent thief went.
Actually, Jesus said only once that He would be three days and three nights somewhere... in the heart of the land/earth/country.
When did this three days and three nights start?
#1. Did it start after Jesus was arrested in the Garden of Gethsemane opposite the temple mount, after the mob had conveyed Him across the Kidron, when He was back on the temple Mount, the heart of the land of Israel, where He remained for three days and three nights until He ascended to His Father after meeting Mary Magdalene?
#2. Or did it start when He died, and His soul went to hades, in the depths of the earth, until His soul ascended out of Hades and revived in the tomb on the Sunday.
#3. Or did it start when He was buried by Joseph of Arimathea and end when the grave opened and He exited the tomb?
I believe it was #1.
When did the "three days" Jesus mentioned in other prophecies begin? Was it at His death, or at His betrayal and arrest? I believe they began at His betrayal and arrest.
Ecclesiastes 9
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Christ was dead for 72 hours. Christ stated the Dead are asleep, I Christ did not die then our sins are not paid for.
"When did this three days and three nights start?"
After death, when He was put in the tomb moments before the First day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (which is a High Sabbath) began, before the sun set ending the preparation day which was the 14th.
He did not say, I will be death for 3 days and nights, but in the GRAVE for that time. Words matter.
He was resurrected 72 hours later just before sunset ended the 7th day Sabbath, the Sabbath of which He is LORD. Christ was not resurrected on the day of the sun god at sunrise. Mary was at the tomb in the dark and He was not in the tomb.
He died on Wednesday, mid week, at our 3 PM and was buried moments before the sun set.
Thursday, night - day: Friday, Night - day; Saturday, night - day, God's 24 hours begins at sunset, the beginning of night, not midnight.
John 19
31The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
That Sabbath was not the 7th day, it was one of 7 Holy Feast of God that are commanded assembles.
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Christ was dead for 72 hours. Christ stated the Dead are asleep, I Christ did not die then our sins are not paid for.
"When did this three days and three nights start?"
After death, when He was put in the tomb moments before the First day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (which is a High Sabbath) began, before the sun set ending the preparation day which was the 14th.
He did not say, I will be death for 3 days and nights, but in the GRAVE for that time. Words matter.
He was resurrected 72 hours later just before sunset ended the 7th day Sabbath, the Sabbath of which He is LORD. Christ was not resurrected on the day of the sun god at sunrise. Mary was at the tomb in the dark and He was not in the tomb.
He died on Wednesday, mid week, at our 3 PM and was buried moments before the sun set.
Thursday, night - day: Friday, Night - day; Saturday, night - day, God's 24 hours begins at sunset, the beginning of night, not midnight.
John 19
31The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
That Sabbath was not the 7th day, it was one of 7 Holy Feast of God that are commanded assembles.
why on earth would God consider a day to belong to some pagan god?
resurrection is an 8th day, which is also a first.
If that were true the Christ was not in the tomb for 72 hours.
Daniel 9: 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: (7) and in the “midst of the week” (our Wednesday & 3 1/2 years) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, (1/14 , at Passover) and for the overspreading of abominations he (He, Christ) shall make [it] desolate, even until the “consummation” (#3717 complete destruction), and that “determined” (#2782 decision) shall be poured upon the desolate.
Daniel foretold Christ would die on our Wednesday: Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday that 4 days.
Words do matter. I agree. When did Christ say,
"I will be in the grave three days and three nights"?
Dan 9:27
He will confirm a covenant with many for one week. But in the middle of that week he will bring sacrifices and offerings to a halt. On the wing of abominations will come one who destroys, until the decreed end is poured out on the one who destroys."
If "one week" means seven days there, what does "He will confirm a covenant with many for one week" (seven actual days mean? I believe Jesus confirmed the New covenant with the Jews only for seven years (from beginning to preach in Nazareth AD 27 until the stoning of Stephen in AD 34). and being crucified in the middle of that week of years (AD 30). The Jewish disciples began to preach the covenant to the Gentiles after that.
How did Jesus confirm a covenant with many from Sunday to Saturday?
gé: Earth, land, ground, soil
Original Word: γῆ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: gé
Pronunciation: gay
Phonetic Spelling: (ghay)
KJV: country, earth(-ly), ground, land, world
NASB: earth, land, ground, soil, country, earthly
Word Origin: [contracted from a primary word]
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
luke 23
52This [man] went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. 53And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
Fact. He was placed in a tomb of stone for 3 days and 3 nights --72 hours
The Catholics got this from the "Gospel of Nicodemus".
I wouldn't put ANY stock in that at all.