As we continue to move through The Bible Verse By Verse Continued.... thread, an occasion for discussion arises.
Let us have our discourse here...
Let us have our discourse here...
The Bible Verse By Verse Continued... Discussion Thread
- Thread starter GracethroughfaithinChrist
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Is Psalm 45:6-7 a reference to king David, or to the "KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS", Jesus Christ?
Psalm 45:6-7 (NKJV)
Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
7You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.
Hebrews 1:8-9 (KJV)
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Psalm 45:6-7 (NKJV)
Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
7You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.
Hebrews 1:8-9 (KJV)
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
'First of all, GTFICJ, i think that you answered part of your question yourself, unless that you're questioning the author of Hebrew's understanding of the passage that he quoted? Assuming not, then for one, it is prophetically talking about Jesus Christ, King of King and Lord of Lords.
But, to me, most prophecy of this nature, that is, not allegorical, symbolical or metaphorical, always has a double meaning. First, that the surrounding passages are definitely referring to David, that I feel that verses 6 - 7 contextually must be also. And that practically speaking, they can be referring to David as he was regarded as such by his contemporaries, and that they actually do refer to him in a poetic manner (i believe that it's a poetic convention to call men gods).
Again, i feel that most of the OT passages that are quoted in the NT, can be applied to both the contemporary figures mentioned at the time of the prophecy (antetype), and then to the future character (type). I find that to be due to the comprehensive wisdom of God. In other words, it would seem a bit inept if the Word of God was meaningless at the time of being written down, and only having a significance in the distant future. I know that Daniel didn't always understand what he wrote or where it applied, but again, those were abstract prophecies from start to finish, filled with symbology. In the case of logistically sound depictions, then I expect them to have 2 viable applications (when confirmed by an NT author to be prophetical).
But, to me, most prophecy of this nature, that is, not allegorical, symbolical or metaphorical, always has a double meaning. First, that the surrounding passages are definitely referring to David, that I feel that verses 6 - 7 contextually must be also. And that practically speaking, they can be referring to David as he was regarded as such by his contemporaries, and that they actually do refer to him in a poetic manner (i believe that it's a poetic convention to call men gods).
Again, i feel that most of the OT passages that are quoted in the NT, can be applied to both the contemporary figures mentioned at the time of the prophecy (antetype), and then to the future character (type). I find that to be due to the comprehensive wisdom of God. In other words, it would seem a bit inept if the Word of God was meaningless at the time of being written down, and only having a significance in the distant future. I know that Daniel didn't always understand what he wrote or where it applied, but again, those were abstract prophecies from start to finish, filled with symbology. In the case of logistically sound depictions, then I expect them to have 2 viable applications (when confirmed by an NT author to be prophetical).
Thank you for your input in this discussion DB7.
You have provided some very interesting food for thought with the analogy you have presented here of antetype and type regarding OT to NT passages.
By the way, your assumption is correct.
I am not questioning the author of Hebrew's understanding of the passage.
The purpose of the discussion here is for edification, which you have amply provided.
I thank you again sir.
You have provided some very interesting food for thought with the analogy you have presented here of antetype and type regarding OT to NT passages.
By the way, your assumption is correct.
I am not questioning the author of Hebrew's understanding of the passage.
The purpose of the discussion here is for edification, which you have amply provided.
I thank you again sir.
I'd like to discuss psalms 139:21-22
We are called to love our enemies. Please do not think me arguing or finding fault in His word. I'd just like some clarification, please.
We are called to love our enemies. Please do not think me arguing or finding fault in His word. I'd just like some clarification, please.
Sure.
We do well to follow all the instructions given to us by Jesus Christ.
How do you see those Scriptures?
The Psalmist is reflecting on his love for God and how God's enemies have become his own enemies.
The verses you referenced, are speaking to the wicked.
They are enemies of God.
Please share your thoughts....
Well I just read those and thought the Lord does not wanting us hating anyone, just sin. He wants us loving our enemies and so I just over thought it, probably.
I see that you are saying that He is showing His devotion to His Lord and in doing so He was making a stand against the wicked.
Am I making sense?
I see that you are saying that He is showing His devotion to His Lord and in doing so He was making a stand against the wicked.
Am I making sense?
From the agony inflicted upon our Savior, He asked the Father to forgive them for they know not what they do. They were definitely enemies at that moment having put Him on the cross to suffer so much for each of us.
Loving our enemy, dand praying for them does not mean we need approve of what they do,. By pray for them, usualy this means for me to correct them and save their souls...….the rest is totally in our Father's hands not ours.
Loving our enemy, dand praying for them does not mean we need approve of what they do,. By pray for them, usualy this means for me to correct them and save their souls...….the rest is totally in our Father's hands not ours.
Makes sense, and yes,
it appears that the psalmist was reflecting on his love for God and how God's enemies had become his own enemies.
It's a good thing to ponder the Scriptures and discuss them with fellow believers.
Another point of interest is in the text, as to where it would be nice to know if the word "enemies" used in Psalm 139:22 in the Hebrew language of the O.T, has the same exact meaning as the Koine Greek seen in Matt 5:44, and Luke 6:27.
The Hebrew seems to be speaking of a spiritual enemy where as the Koine seems to be speaking of an adversary in general.
Also the word hate would seem to be different as well. Examples are Psalm 139:21 and Luke 14:26.
Perhaps something has been lost in translation here?
Thanks for sharing your view and please feel free to share your perspectives as well.
I only just found this thread. What a good idea.
We are drawing to a close in Ecclesiastes. That a wonderful book with 2 of the most important life messages.
I don't think these particular points are touched on in any other book of wisdom known to man.
It shows me that The Bible is from God not simply a concoction of stories from an earthly human perspective.
1 Balance. There is an appropriate time & place for everything in this life.
2 Everything in this earthly existence is utterly futile.
Nothing we can have, do or achieve has any real, lasting value. Even happiness, health & long life are futile. They can disappear in an instant. The Lord God & our relation to him is the only thing with any real meaning or lasting purpose. God is taking us beyond this life.
Who, with only a carnal mind would have thought of that?
We are drawing to a close in Ecclesiastes. That a wonderful book with 2 of the most important life messages.
I don't think these particular points are touched on in any other book of wisdom known to man.
It shows me that The Bible is from God not simply a concoction of stories from an earthly human perspective.
1 Balance. There is an appropriate time & place for everything in this life.
2 Everything in this earthly existence is utterly futile.
Nothing we can have, do or achieve has any real, lasting value. Even happiness, health & long life are futile. They can disappear in an instant. The Lord God & our relation to him is the only thing with any real meaning or lasting purpose. God is taking us beyond this life.
Who, with only a carnal mind would have thought of that?
We have reached Isaiah!! My personal favourite book of the Bible. 
I love this book & all the prophets.
I love this book & all the prophets.
Dear sisster, Lucy P,
Funny you think that. Just after the Holy Spirit entered into me, and I had never been able to ever make any sense of the Bible in my life, I was led to an open book face down in a sstore room of a coffeee house. Now I had no business being in the store romm, but the Holy Spirit lifted me to go in.
I picked up the book and began to read where it was opned, and all I could do was keep reading like a madman filled with joy repeating, that is true, that is true.
Looking at the top of the page I saw the name, Isaiah, and at the cover of the book and it said, Oxsfore Study Bible.
Yes, I saiah is my favorite book in the Word. I have not stpped loving it and all of the Word since. God bless you in Jesus-Yeshua always.
Isaiah or Yeshiyahu or My Reedemer Yahweh.
Funny you think that. Just after the Holy Spirit entered into me, and I had never been able to ever make any sense of the Bible in my life, I was led to an open book face down in a sstore room of a coffeee house. Now I had no business being in the store romm, but the Holy Spirit lifted me to go in.
I picked up the book and began to read where it was opned, and all I could do was keep reading like a madman filled with joy repeating, that is true, that is true.
Looking at the top of the page I saw the name, Isaiah, and at the cover of the book and it said, Oxsfore Study Bible.
Yes, I saiah is my favorite book in the Word. I have not stpped loving it and all of the Word since. God bless you in Jesus-Yeshua always.
Isaiah or Yeshiyahu or My Reedemer Yahweh.
ISAIAH 55
10 As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
it will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
12 You will go out in joy
and be led forth in peace;
the mountains and hills
will burst into song before you,
and all the trees of the field
will clap their hands.
13 Instead of the thorn-bush will grow the juniper,
and instead of briers the myrtle will grow.
This will be for the Lord’s renown,
for an everlasting sign,
that will endure for ever.’
10 As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
it will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
12 You will go out in joy
and be led forth in peace;
the mountains and hills
will burst into song before you,
and all the trees of the field
will clap their hands.
13 Instead of the thorn-bush will grow the juniper,
and instead of briers the myrtle will grow.
This will be for the Lord’s renown,
for an everlasting sign,
that will endure for ever.’
My country is in this mess now 
Is 1
6 From the sole of your foot to the top of your head
there is no soundness –
only wounds and bruises
and open sores,
not cleansed or bandaged
or soothed with oil.
7 Your country is desolate,
your cities burned with fire;
your fields are being stripped by foreigners
right before you,
laid waste as when overthrown by strangers.
23 Your rulers are rebels,
partners with thieves;
they all love bribes
and chase after gifts.
They do not defend the cause of the fatherless;
the widow’s case does not come before them.
Is 1
6 From the sole of your foot to the top of your head
there is no soundness –
only wounds and bruises
and open sores,
not cleansed or bandaged
or soothed with oil.
7 Your country is desolate,
your cities burned with fire;
your fields are being stripped by foreigners
right before you,
laid waste as when overthrown by strangers.
23 Your rulers are rebels,
partners with thieves;
they all love bribes
and chase after gifts.
They do not defend the cause of the fatherless;
the widow’s case does not come before them.
I believe that when we make every effort, to love our enemies, that God intended for us to win some over as friends. On the flip side, once we have done all we can, some will still inflict evil on us. Those, we trust God to take it from us. A scripture that shows the is as follows:
Pro. 25:21-22 "If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink: For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and the LORD shall reward thee."
We have reached one of my very favourite chapters in all The Bible !
God's beautiful love and future plan for Jews and Gentiles revealed in a detailed prophecy.
Isaiah 19
God's beautiful love and future plan for Jews and Gentiles revealed in a detailed prophecy.
Isaiah 19
I haven't been keeping up with the verse by verse thread because the hard drive on my laptop failed.
Right in the middle of Isaiah, my favourite book!
I was using an old tablet for a while but I have a new laptop now
Right in the middle of Isaiah, my favourite book!
I was using an old tablet for a while but I have a new laptop now
Yes kindly let me know the rules for your thread. It's late here so for now I'll say if you can point out verses in the Ampl Bible that corrupt the say KJV, I'd like to see them. Also how about the Living Bible and are there any others you don't prefer?
Sure, no problem and thank you for coming here to discuss this.
As a set of general rules when posting, please include chapter and verse and version used (preferably).
Like this below...
When posting, I try and find versions that are the closest to the original language. I usually include a link to the text (Hebrew to English) like this below...
Jeremiah 44:22
It doesn't matter what version you post as long as it is close to the original language text. You do not have to include a link to the text. That is something I do, but it's totally fine if you do or don't.
We have used NASB, NIV, ESV, BSB, CSB, KJV, NKJV, and JPS Tanakh 1917.
So we obviously aren't confined to using one particular version there.
The amplified version has been viewed as "illegitimate totality transfer".
In other words "by giving multiple potential meanings of a word in a particular passage. Readers may incorrectly conclude that multiple meanings of a word may apply regardless of the one which context would suggest."
Here is a link with a video that explains more about "illegitimate totality transfer".
Please avoid paraphrased versions as well and if possible try to use a version that is close to the original language text.
Thanks again.
Ok I think I'll pick one of the stated versions, then I won't have to worry about slipping, lol. I will check out the link and see if it gives any examples of how the Amplified Translation misrepresents Scriptures. Thanks for the info and I will continue to post when I can.