Revelation in Chronological Order?
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I would think because its the signified language of God .(Revelation 1:1) Which I think could in a way represent parables . It seems many times the chronological in respect to the temporal is there.. but not the only focus . Like for instance using the rendering of the ten Commandments in respect to the ceremonial rest in Exodus and Deuteronomy .Both historical accounts (creation and the freeing of the bondage in Egypt) as two different reasons point to one rest that came from the work of God.
One explains it from one time period the other another. A person could say two witneses "the law and the prophets" .Genesis 1 and 2 seems to have that witness.
There is a word for that kind of language of comparison .Not sure what it is?
It would seem in Revelation chapter 11 and 12 they are written in that way complimenting each other, magnifying the gospel .
Chapter 11 ending.... its the end of the world .The last day has come. The temple was opened, the Sun and the moon as the temporal corrupted time keepers called under the Sun in Ecclesiastics ) are under the feet of His chaste virgin bride, the church, she is clothed with the righteousness of her husband Christ. ,
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.Revelation 11:19 thru 12:2 King James Version (KJV)
From then down the explanation of His victory. And in chapter 21 what that temple looks like that was opened in the end of chapter 11. (And the temple of God was opened in heaven,)
And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. Revelation 21
One explains it from one time period the other another. A person could say two witneses "the law and the prophets" .Genesis 1 and 2 seems to have that witness.
There is a word for that kind of language of comparison .Not sure what it is?
It would seem in Revelation chapter 11 and 12 they are written in that way complimenting each other, magnifying the gospel .
Chapter 11 ending.... its the end of the world .The last day has come. The temple was opened, the Sun and the moon as the temporal corrupted time keepers called under the Sun in Ecclesiastics ) are under the feet of His chaste virgin bride, the church, she is clothed with the righteousness of her husband Christ. ,
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.Revelation 11:19 thru 12:2 King James Version (KJV)
From then down the explanation of His victory. And in chapter 21 what that temple looks like that was opened in the end of chapter 11. (And the temple of God was opened in heaven,)
And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. Revelation 21
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I find Revelation gets easier to understand towards the end, so I like to start at the end and read toward the beginning. Sort of like reverse engineering it.
I believe that MOST of it is in chronological order, but not all.
I can't begin to grasp the whole book in one bite. It is epic and vast in scale. It would be more discussable if you broke it down into chapters, or even parts of chapters.
I believe that MOST of it is in chronological order, but not all.
I can't begin to grasp the whole book in one bite. It is epic and vast in scale. It would be more discussable if you broke it down into chapters, or even parts of chapters.
My personal understanding of Chronological framework in general is:
Fall of Satan and a third of angels.
Creation of Man
Old Testament Events
Christ's first coming and Early Church
Present Day
Rapture
Marriage Supper in Heaven and Tribulation on Earth
Second Coming of Christ with Saints
Millenial Rule of Christ on Earth
Final Rebellion and Satan Permanently Bound in Hell
White Throne Judgement
New Jerusalem come down out of Heaven to New Earth
Final State
I believe that this is the framework that Revelation reveals. I find no conflict with this and the rest of Scripture.
Fall of Satan and a third of angels.
Creation of Man
Old Testament Events
Christ's first coming and Early Church
Present Day
Rapture
Marriage Supper in Heaven and Tribulation on Earth
Second Coming of Christ with Saints
Millenial Rule of Christ on Earth
Final Rebellion and Satan Permanently Bound in Hell
White Throne Judgement
New Jerusalem come down out of Heaven to New Earth
Final State
I believe that this is the framework that Revelation reveals. I find no conflict with this and the rest of Scripture.
Sorry. I do. I was referring to the signified language of God. The tool for understanding the book of Revelation.
Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV)The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Its his signified interpretation. . . . not one of us (private) I would say His signature. To signify, is to use the things seen the temporal to give us the unseen eternal understanding as the law of faith. "faith to faith " The gospel in a nut shell.
So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Romans 1:15-17
He not only sent it but also has given us its signified or spirit understanding I would like that called hidden manna in chapter 2
Not throwing out the spiritual understanding with the water of the word.
I was explaining how God uses different ways to say the same thing giving us his spiritual understanding in that way.
Like chapter 1 and 2 of Genesis . Same with chapter 11 and 12 of Revelation. Same with the ten commandments .Two different rendering for the same event. (no chronological order needed to understand the different parables.) Again two the reasonings for that one commandment.
The reason given in Exodus 20 account.. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:11
The reason given in Deuteronomy 5 account. Both parables (Creation and the deliverance of Egypt) giving us the hidden manna .
And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day. Deuteronomy 5:15
Some try and literalize the signified understanding and everything becomes chronological the focus as if we walked by sight.. I believe the focus is on the unseen (gospel)
The word thousand according to its signified understanding represents a unknown amount of time .
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
The 2 Advents way
First age - earth created to be inhabited, fall of Satan, earth becomes void, darkness over face "end of an earth age"
Re-animation/Creation, male and female created, Re-plenish the earth
Bloodline through which Christ will come formed
Christs Birth - 1st Advent - Christs death - Christ Risen
Satan kicked out of heaven to deceive the World
Christs Return - 2nd Advent "end of another age" "new age begins" All terrestrial to celestial - Satan Bound 1000 ys- Lords Day Begins "new earth age"
Satan loosed- Armageddon - White Throne Judgment- lake of fire "end of earth age"
Eternal Age- New City on earth
As I believe.
First age - earth created to be inhabited, fall of Satan, earth becomes void, darkness over face "end of an earth age"
Re-animation/Creation, male and female created, Re-plenish the earth
Bloodline through which Christ will come formed
Christs Birth - 1st Advent - Christs death - Christ Risen
Satan kicked out of heaven to deceive the World
Christs Return - 2nd Advent "end of another age" "new age begins" All terrestrial to celestial - Satan Bound 1000 ys- Lords Day Begins "new earth age"
Satan loosed- Armageddon - White Throne Judgment- lake of fire "end of earth age"
Eternal Age- New City on earth
As I believe.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/1-1.htm it says it was signified #4591 "having sent through the angel of him",,so he indicated it,,conveyed the Revelation through the angel(garee thinks it means something different) than the Greek experts....
I've been doing study of the "chronology" of Revelation for a number of years (20 or so, more intensively). Basically, I believe the SEALS-TRUMPETS-VIALS are sequential and take place within a 7-yr period of time (I explain some of the reasoning of that, in a post I just made in another thread [somewhat different convo context, mind you]: https://christianchat.com/threads/a...chance-to-state-your-case.184571/post-3948665 Post #1559, as well as Post #1560 ). There are a number of time-markers in the Revelation, some being overtly stated, while others are somewhat more obscure (apart from one's connecting it to other passages of Scripture, like OT references... for example, "kings go/went out to battle" at a very specific time... things like that).
While I do believe there is some back-tracking (and interludes, etc), the general "framework / OUTLINE" (esp of the SEALS/TRUMPETS/VIALS) is sequential (and occurs within those 7 future years leading UP TO His Second Coming to the earth [FOR the commencement of the earthly MK age, which I believe is equivalent to "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" (on the earth / earthly MK--the "guests [PLURAL]" will be "having been invited" [19:9] all throughout the 7-yr period [while on the earth, never having lifted off the earth (the Rapture does not pertain to them, nor OT saints)] and will enter the MK age upon His "RETURN" there)]
Good day crossnote,
First of all, the key to understanding the chronological time-line of Revelation is found in Rev.1:19 where John is told to write:
What you have seen = Everything written from Rev.1:1 thru 1:19
What is now = Represented by the letters to the seven church, which also represent the entire church period
What will take place later = Everything which will take place after the "What is now," i.e. what takes place after the church period
That said, we are currently still living in the "what is now" part of what John was told to write. In Rev.4.1 the voice that sounds like a trumpet (which is identified as Jesus in Rev.1:10) says, "come up here and I will show you what must take place after this" which is synonymous with the "what must take place later" and which ends the "what is now." Therefore, everything from Revelation chapter 4 onward is what will take place after the church is gathered which will end the "what is now."
As far as the chronological order of events, chapter 6 is pretty self explanatory, as the seals are opened in sequential order which is why they are listed one thru seven, which is followed by the trumpets and bowl judgments. These will all take place in chronological order.
Some have attempted to say that the seals do not necessarily have to be opened in the order that they are said to be opened in, which I disagree with and here is why: A seal would be an impression of wax which adheres to the parchment, with each seal adhering to the same parchment.
Try to imagine a scroll with each of its seven seals adhering to the same parchment. When the first seal is broken, it opens up until it gets to the second seal which is still adhering to the parchment. You can read everything that is written on the page of that first seal, however, the second seal is going to have to be broken in order to see what is written under its page. That said, if one was to try to open say.... the 4th seal first, then it would end up ripping the scroll in both directions because the other seals are still adhering to the parchment. Therefore, the seals with their resulting plagues of wrath, will be opened in the order that they are said to be opened, one thru seven.
Now regarding the seals, after the 6th seal there is what has been called a "parenthetic pause" which is not apart of the seals, but is other related information. For example after the 6th seal, we have in chapter 7 the sealing of the 144,000 out of Israel and the introduction of the saints who come out of the great tribulation. We also have these parenthetic pauses after the 6th trumpet which is the information regarding the angel and the little scroll and the information regarding the two witnesses. After that we then have the sounding of the 7th trumpet. Therefore, both the 6th seal and 6th trumpet are followed by these parenthetic pauses.
The 7th seal consists pretty much of the preparation for the sounding of the seven trumpets.
1st Seal/ Rider on the white horse - figuratively representing the revealing of the antichrist
2nd Seal/Rider red horse - Is given authority to take peace from the earth so that mankind kills one another
3rd Seal/Rider black horse - world-wide famine (an entire days wages will only buy a small amount of food)
4th Seal/Rider pale green horse - Death and Hades given power to kill a fourth of mankind (about 1.7 billion fatalities)
5th Seal - Souls under the altar in heaven (no immediate fatalities result from this seal)
6th Seal - Great earthquake, sun darkened, moon turned the color of blood, sky rolled back like a scroll so that the inhabitants can see God sitting on His throne, the announcement that God's wrath has come, which includes the previous seals and the wrath that is still yet to come which are the trumpets and bowl judgments.
(parenthetic pauses)
* The sealing of the 144,000 out of the twelve tribes of Israel - Rev.7:1-8
* The introduction of the saints who come out of the great tribulation - Rev.7:9-17
7th Seal - about a half hour of silence, seven angels are given their trumpets, much incense with the prayers of the saints presented before God, fire from the altar is hurled to the earth resulting in peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning and an earthquake.
If I might add, many don't understand the severity and magnitude of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, because they don't do a detailed study on them. They just read over the information not recognizing their full destruction. This is why Jesus said that "if those days had not been shortened no one would be saved." That is, if those days were allowed to go on any longer, there would be no one left alive on the earth. By the time Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, the majority of the earths population will have been decimated and all human government dismantled (See Daniel 2:31-45).
The trumpets are even worse. The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments along with the beasts reign represent the birth pains, which get closer and closer and more intense as they go.
That's an interesting question, especially that even though numerically the 6th seal judgments come before those of the 7th seal, chronologically they come AFTER the 7th seal judgments (which include the Great Tribulation) and just before the Second Coming of Christ. I will go into details later.
Garee is no expert other than getting in trouble with his wife.. Greek is Greek to me.
Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV)1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and "signified it" by his angel unto his servant John:
Its his interpretation he does not send it without giving the signified meaning . Called hidden manna in chapter 2. Clearly sent it and signified it.
Strong's lexicon. signify, indicate, give a sign, make known. sémainó :from where we get the worrd semantics ( a branch of semiotics dealing with the relations between signs and what they refer to and including theories of denotation, extension, naming, and truth
The same purpose of parables.
The prescription by which we can make known the eternal things...
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Something to think about or not..
Revelation 20 King James Version (KJV) And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
What does I saw a angel signify in respect to the unseen eternal ?
What does a literal key signify in respect to the unseen eternal ?
What does a bottomless pit signify in respect to the unseen eternal ?
What does a literal chain signify in respect to the unseen eternal ?
What do the word hand signify in respect to the unseen eternal ?
What does the word thousand signify in respect to the unseen eternal ?
Thx. So the seals are sequential but some of the consequent events 'fit' inbetween some of the seals? I'm just trying to get a 'bird's eye view' sort of speak from Rev 6 onward.
Where would you place something like Rev 13? After all the seals? In between the 4th and 5th? that is what I'm asking, a sweeping panorama/time line without concentrating on the seals alone.
Garee,,, every time something is shown to John in Revelation an "angel" is who is sent to show him right? Here's an few examples ,Revelation 17:1,Revelation 16:3,,,, Revelation 14:6-9,,,Revelation 10:1 ect.(and many more) "he sent them to show John" just like he said in Revelation 1:1...
If I'm reading you rightly, yes, that is how I understand it. A SEAL is opened in heaven and its effect(s) then unfold upon the earth, then the next SEAL is opened in heaven, and so forth...
The seven year period depicted like this:
l------------l------------l (2 halves of 1260 days each, or)
l-------[xxxxxx]-xvvvvvvv-l (the Seals in the first 1/4 [approx.] of the 7 yrs; then the Trumpets [6 of the 7 corresponding with the 2W's (testimony of) 1260d, these straddling the two halves; with the 5th Trumpet/1st Woe unto the earth=mid-trib point]; then the 7th Trumpet and 7 Vials in the last 1/4 [approx.] of the 7 yrs). I believe the 7th Seal unleashes the Trumpets, and the 7th Trumpet unleashes the Vials (so you could consider that somewhat overlapped in some sense)
So the events from Revelation 7 to 22 chronologically are:
1. The Rapture of the Church followed by that of the 144,000 Hebrews
2. The first six trumpet judgments during the reign of the Antichrist
3. The 7th trumpet judgments (7 vials of wrath) of the Great Tribulation
4. The cataclysmic cosmic events of the 6th seal.
5. The Marriage of the Lamb and the Second Coming of Christ
6. The battle of Armageddon
7. The Millennium
8. The battle of Gog and Magog
9. The Great White Throne Judgment
10. The New Heavens and the New Earth with the descent of the New Jerusalem (as a heavenly body)