Resolving Problematic Interpretations of Scripture

[GWH]

The purpose of this thread is to promote Christian unity and resolve arguments by applying key Scriptures in wide (holistic) context, hoping that intra-Christian apologetics will convince many to adopt the better belief regarding divisive doctrines. Again, some doctrines that are controversial within the Christian community will be discussed in an effort to answer the prayer of Jesus (in John 17:20-23) for spiritual unity among his followers. Many pastors either avoid these issues or else mention only their viewpoint, but this thread will share both sides of the issue, trying to resolve conflict in accordance with what Paul wrote (in Phil. 3:15b-16), “…If on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have already attained.”

Because the most divisive doctrine that causes the most argumentation on CC seems to be TULIP, this thread will begin by considering that topic in a way that does not duplicate other threads, but by politely presenting Scripture interpreted holistically or in context. TULIP is described as follows:

T – total depravity, meaning that all souls are unable to seek salvation.

U – unconditional election, meaning that souls cannot satisfy a divine condition (such as faith or repentance), but God elects to save some while damning the rest to hell.

L – limited atonement, meaning that Christ died to pay the penalty of sin only for the elect souls.

I – irresistible grace, meaning that elect souls cannot resist God’s will for them to believe and be saved.

P – perseverance of the saints, meaning that the elect cannot repudiate their salvation and commit apostasy.

Would anyone like to begin (politely presenting Scripture interpreted holistically or in context)?

 

[Follower777]

The purpose of this thread is to promote Christian unity and resolve arguments by applying key Scriptures in wide (holistic) context, hoping that intra-Christian apologetics will convince many to adopt the better belief regarding divisive doctrines. Again, some doctrines that are controversial within the Christian community will be discussed in an effort to answer the prayer of Jesus (in John 17:20-23) for spiritual unity among his followers. Many pastors either avoid these issues or else mention only their viewpoint, but this thread will share both sides of the issue, trying to resolve conflict in accordance with what Paul wrote (in Phil. 3:15b-16), “…If on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have already attained.”

Because the most divisive doctrine that causes the most argumentation on CC seems to be TULIP, this thread will begin by considering that topic in a way that does not duplicate other threads, but by politely presenting Scripture interpreted holistically or in context. TULIP is described as follows:

T – total depravity, meaning that all souls are unable to seek salvation.

U – unconditional election, meaning that souls cannot satisfy a divine condition (such as faith or repentance), but God elects to save some while damning the rest to hell.

L – limited atonement, meaning that Christ died to pay the penalty of sin only for the elect souls.

I – irresistible grace, meaning that elect souls cannot resist God’s will for them to believe and be saved.

P – perseverance of the saints, meaning that the elect cannot repudiate their salvation and commit apostasy.

Would anyone like to begin (politely presenting Scripture interpreted holistically or in context)?

Yes !! Your comment " ... promote Christian unity and resolve arguments ... spiritual unity among his followers" con ONLY be achieved, by us being IN Christ Gal 2:20 and His Righteousness. For Jesus says;

“Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword." Matt 10:34

"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matt 5:20

I'm sorry, .... I've heard this TULIP phrase before, but have not paid it much concern, as it seems to be based on much false understanding of Jesus and His Righteousness.. So ... any part I take in this discussion, will be to discuss and promote "Righteousness" .. and it being the Holy Standard for our salvation, and the bases for being the Body of Christ, "the elect" ,"the saints, and children of obedience
(1 Peter 1:14, 1 John 5:3 ) = God's Children, unto eternal inheritance of ever lasting life.

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Rev 14:12

𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨

 

[memberofthebride]

I am new to this site, this is my first comment.

I have studied the Word of GOD since 1968.

From that study I have found many of main steam Christian beliefs -- are beliefs.

When Jesus Christ states: unless the Father calls a person to Him, they are not coming.

Jesus clearly told His apostles,

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, "Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given."

Therefore: unless The Father calls a person to follow Jesus Christ, and understand the WORD, they can not do so on their own.

I do not know how to understand this in any other way.

And to logically and scripturally show proof, after 3 1/2 years, only 120 assembled on that Feast of Pentecost after Christ preached to the tens of thousands.

I hope to ask questions as to where these "beliefs" can be found in the WORD of God.

 

[GWH]

Yes !! Your comment " ... promote Christian unity and resolve arguments ... spiritual unity among his followers" con ONLY be achieved, by us being IN Christ Gal 2:20 and His Righteousness. For Jesus says;

“Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword." Matt 10:34

"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matt 5:20

I'm sorry, .... I've heard this TULIP phrase before, but have not paid it much concern, as it seems to be based on much false understanding of Jesus and His Righteousness.. So ... any part I take in this discussion, will be to discuss and promote "Righteousness" .. and it being the Holy Standard for our salvation, and the bases for being the Body of Christ, "the elect" ,"the saints, and children of obedience
(1 Peter 1:14, 1 John 5:3 ) = God's Children, unto eternal inheritance of ever lasting life.

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Rev 14:12

𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨𝝞𝝬Θ𝝪𝝨

You are absolutely correct to say that unity only occurs when sinners are IN Christ via saving faith in Him as Lord,
which means seeking to obey His commands or cooperate with His teachings regarding righteousness/love.

Yes, Jesus came to make peace with God possible, but the process also includes judgment of sin/sinners via the sword
of the Spirit, who is the Word of God. (I appreciate you citing GW to support your comments.)

I agree that TULIP is a false understanding of GW based on proof-texting and omitting the whole of Scripture or not
interpreting GW holistically. Please begin the discussion in accordance with your concern to promote righteousness/love.

 

[GWH]

I am new to this site, this is my first comment.

I have studied the Word of GOD since 1968.
From that study I have found many of main steam Christian beliefs -- are beliefs.
When Jesus Christ states: unless the Father calls a person to Him, they are not coming.
Jesus clearly told His apostles,
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, "Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given."

Therefore: unless The Father calls a person to follow Jesus Christ, and understand the WORD, they can not do so on their own.
I do not know how to understand this in any other way.
And to logically and scripturally show proof, after 3 1/2 years, only 120 assembled on that Feast of Pentecost after Christ preached to the tens of thousands.
I hope to ask questions as to where these "beliefs" can be found in the WORD of God.

Howdy and welcome to CC.

I also began studying GW since 1968 after a friend converted to atheism and after hearing that my favorite HS teacher was a former Christian minister turned agnostic. One of the first things I learned was that my Baptist belief in OSAS was contradicted in many Scriptures.

One of the topics that will be appropriate for this thread is the purpose of parables including the verse you cited, which will
need to be interpreted holistically in order to avoid the fallacy of proof-texting, but would you be okay with considering the topic of TULIP first? If not, please go ahead and share your questions, because I fully expect to herd cats and chase rabbits rather than cover only one topic at a time.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Would anyone like to begin (politely presenting Scripture interpreted holistically or in context)?

All of TULIP appears in various degrees in the beliefs of the Valentinian gnostics as described by early church father Irenaeus in Against Heresies, book 1, chapter 6, paragraphs 2 and 4 (and possibly other places I've not discovered yet). It's not scripture presented holistically, but it is Christian belief vis-a-vis gnostic belief presented historically.

 

[GWH]

All of TULIP appears in various degrees in the beliefs of the Valentinian gnostics as described by early church father Irenaeus in Against Heresies, book 1, chapter 6, paragraphs 2 and 4 (and possibly other places I've not discovered yet). It's not scripture presented holistically, but it is Christian belief vis-a-vis gnostic belief presented historically.

That rings a bell vaguely, but I remember Augustine of Hippo better, because I did a seminary research paper on his soteriology,
which was adopted by Calvin and included the problematic TULIP doctrine.

Please feel free to lead out with a discussion of TULIP ("tulipism") in a way that accords with our goal of politely presenting Scripture interpreted holistically or in context.

 

[timf]

T – total depravity, meaning that all souls are unable to seek salvation.

Rom_10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

U – unconditional election, meaning that souls cannot satisfy a divine condition (such as faith or repentance), but God elects to save some while damning the rest to hell.

Act_13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

L – limited atonement, meaning that Christ died to pay the penalty of sin only for the elect souls.

1Jn_2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

I – irresistible grace, meaning that elect souls cannot resist God’s will for them to believe and be saved.

Luk_8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

P – perseverance of the saints, meaning that the elect cannot repudiate their salvation and commit apostasy.

Mat_10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

While those of Israel under the kingdom gospel could lose salvation, those sealed by the Holy Spirit under the grace gospel will be saved (not by their perseverance, but by the faithfulness of the Holy Spirit).

 

[GWH]

Perhaps before proceeding any further it would be helpful to mention the interpretation of Scripture that objects to TULIP,
which viewpoint may be termed Moral Free Will (MFW or MFWism) and described as follows:

M – moral requirement, meaning that God's requirement for salvation (GRFS) is righteousness, which presumes sinners are morally accountable.

F – free faith, meaning that GRFS or condition for attaining righteousness is faith in God's Word is IF they believe, which implies
sinners are enabled to repent, seek salvation and believe the Gospel of Christ’s atonement.

W – will, meaning that the essence of faith is the desire to cooperate with God (or not), and choosing to cooperate with God
opens the door of a sinner's heart to the entrance of Christ's loving Holy Spirit.

Here again is the opposing dogma of tulipism:

T – total depravity, meaning that all souls are unable to seek salvation.

U – unconditional election, meaning that souls cannot satisfy a divine condition (such as faith or repentance), but God elects to save some while damning the rest to hell.

L – limited atonement, meaning that Christ died to pay the penalty of sin only for the elect souls.

I – irresistible grace, meaning that elect souls cannot resist God’s will for them to believe and be saved.

P – perseverance of the saints, meaning that the elect cannot repudiate their salvation and commit apostasy.

How shall we begin to discuss which is the better belief, politely presenting Scripture interpreted holistically or in context?

 

[GWH]

T – total depravity, meaning that all souls are unable to seek salvation.

Rom_10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

U – unconditional election, meaning that souls cannot satisfy a divine condition (such as faith or repentance), but God elects to save some while damning the rest to hell.

Act_13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

L – limited atonement, meaning that Christ died to pay the penalty of sin only for the elect souls.

1Jn_2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

I – irresistible grace, meaning that elect souls cannot resist God’s will for them to believe and be saved.

Luk_8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

P – perseverance of the saints, meaning that the elect cannot repudiate their salvation and commit apostasy.

Mat_10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

While those of Israel under the kingdom gospel could lose salvation, those sealed by the Holy Spirit under the grace gospel will be saved (not by their perseverance, but by the faithfulness of the Holy Spirit).

timf, I see that you posted while I was composing mine, so here are my comments:

You shared Scripture that clearly contradicts tulipism, and you did so politely, so thanks!

Does someone want to defend the other side by politely showing how the Scriptures timf cited are proof-texts
that a holistic interpretation that considers the context of the whole NT does not support?

 

[timf]

One of the problems contention brings to forums is that it can scare off those seeking to question and learn.

 

[GWH]

One of the problems contention brings to forums is that it can scare off those seeking to question and learn.

Yes, such contention scared me off of those threads on CC, which is why in this OP and following posts
I stress that discussion should be done politely, preferably showing how the Scriptures cited are part of a
holistic interpretation that considers the context of the whole NT. I desire discussion with fellow truthseekers.

 

[Jon777]

The purpose of this thread is to promote Christian unity and resolve arguments by applying key Scriptures in wide (holistic) context, hoping that intra-Christian apologetics will convince many to adopt the better belief regarding divisive doctrines. Again, some doctrines that are controversial within the Christian community will be discussed in an effort to answer the prayer of Jesus (in John 17:20-23) for spiritual unity among his followers. Many pastors either avoid these issues or else mention only their viewpoint, but this thread will share both sides of the issue, trying to resolve conflict in accordance with what Paul wrote (in Phil. 3:15b-16), “…If on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have already attained.”

Because the most divisive doctrine that causes the most argumentation on CC seems to be TULIP, this thread will begin by considering that topic in a way that does not duplicate other threads, but by politely presenting Scripture interpreted holistically or in context. TULIP is described as follows:

T – total depravity, meaning that all souls are unable to seek salvation.

U – unconditional election, meaning that souls cannot satisfy a divine condition (such as faith or repentance), but God elects to save some while damning the rest to hell.

L – limited atonement, meaning that Christ died to pay the penalty of sin only for the elect souls.

I – irresistible grace, meaning that elect souls cannot resist God’s will for them to believe and be saved.

P – perseverance of the saints, meaning that the elect cannot repudiate their salvation and commit apostasy.

Would anyone like to begin (politely presenting Scripture interpreted holistically or in context)?

 

[Jon777]

I’ll give this a shot, just off the top of my head by memory

T – Total Depravity
You were dead through the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work among those who are disobedient. (Eph 2:1-2 NRSVue)

U – Unconditional, or unmerited election
Do not be ashamed, then, of the testimony about our Lord or of me his prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the gospel, in the power of God, who saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works but according to his own purpose and grace, and this grace was given to us in Christ Jesus before the ages began, (2Ti 1:8-9 NRSVue)

So it depends not on human will or exertion but on God who shows mercy. For the scripture says to Pharaoh, “I have raised you up for this very purpose, that I may show my power in you and that my name may be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he chooses, and he hardens the heart of whomever he chooses.
(Rom 9:16-18 NRSVue)

L – Limited Atonement, or Particular Redemption
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; (Rev 5:9 KJV)

Keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock, of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God that he obtained with the blood of his own Son. (Act 20:28 NRSVue)

I – Irresistible Grace
Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and anyone who comes to me I will never drive away, (Joh 6:37 NRSVue)

I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land. I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you, and I will remove from your body the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. I will put my spirit within you and make you follow my statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances. (Eze 36:24-27 NRSVue)

P – Perseverance of the Saints
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, in regard to what he has given me, is greater than all, and no one can snatch them out of the Father’s hand. (Joh 10:28-29 NRSVue)

 

[memberofthebride]

Howdy and welcome to CC.

I also began studying GW since 1968 after a friend converted to atheism and after hearing that my favorite HS teacher was a former Christian minister turned agnostic. One of the first things I learned was that my Baptist belief in OSAS was contradicted in many Scriptures.

One of the topics that will be appropriate for this thread is the purpose of parables including the verse you cited, which will
need to be interpreted holistically in order to avoid the fallacy of proof-texting, but would you be okay with considering the topic of TULIP first? If not, please go ahead and share your questions, because I fully expect to herd cats and chase rabbits rather than cover only one topic at a time.

This is the first time I have heard of TULIP, at first glance I do not agree and or understand from the perspective of my beliefs.

I will take a closer look.

what are you looking for, reasons or a scriptures, for or against?

 

[Jon777]

This is the first time I have heard of TULIP, at first glance I do not agree and or understand from the perspective of my beliefs.

I will take a closer look.

what are you looking for, reasons or a scriptures, for or against?

Think about what this Puritan stated:

For Whom Did Christ Die? by John Owen

The Father imposed His wrath due unto, and the Son underwent punishment for, either:

All the sins of all men.
All the sins of some men, or
Some of the sins of all men.

In which case it may be said:

That if the last be true, all men have some sins to answer for, and so, none are saved.
That if the second be true, then Christ, in their stead suffered for all the sins of all the elect in the whole world, and this is the truth.
But if the first be the case, why are not all men free from the punishment due unto their sins?

You answer, “Because of unbelief.”

I ask, Is this unbelief a sin, or is it not? If it be, then Christ suffered the punishment due unto it, or He did not. If He did, why must that hinder them more than their other sins for which He died? If He did not, He did not die for all their sins!”

 

[tablet123]

T – total depravity, meaning that all souls are unable to seek salvation.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

God said He is the Savior of all people and wants all people to be saved and does not want any person to perish.

And the Spirit says any person can have salvation.

Which the bride is supposed to say that but sadly some do not.

They should understand what the Bible is saying.

Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation.

God calls things that has not happened yet as though they already happened for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.

Predestined to salvation does not mean God chooses who will be saved and not saved in the beginning.

But it means God had the plan to give mankind salvation from the foundation of the world so it is the same as if it happened in the beginning.

But this salvation is to whoever wants it for God wants all people to be saved and the Spirit says any person can have that salvation.

Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.

If God chooses in the beginning who would be saved without their choice then why is He calling people but not choosing them.

God calls people on earth not chooses them in the beginning without their choice.

God will call us according to our heart condition and will work with us to get us to the truth but when we get to the door of truth we have to choose to go through it for His kingdom is true love.

But we would not of got to the door of truth if God did not intervene in our life.

God's kingdom is true love so we have to choose to walk through the door of truth which goes against the nature of the flesh to sin.

If God chooses who will be saved without their choice then His kingdom is not true love but robotic love.

You can program your computer to say I love you but does your computer really love you.

And you can program your computer to say I hate you and will you get mad and smash your computer.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Not everyone walks through the door of truth for they will not let go of the flesh and love sin more than God.

U – unconditional election, meaning that souls cannot satisfy a divine condition (such as faith or repentance), but God elects to save some while damning the rest to hell.

Again false.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

A saint can become unto a perfect man.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

1Co 13:5 thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth.

Charity, love in action, works, is greater than faith.

And faith works by love.

No love then no faith.

Which love does not think an evil thought and does not sin.

Love is the fulfilling of the law so it is possible to love perfectly so the saints can satisfy a divine condition and fulfill the law.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

If a person hates sin, and does not want sin allowing the Spirit to lead them they can abstain from sin.

Which one of the fruits of the Spirit is love which love does not sin.

So the saints can satisfy a divine condition and fulfill the law being Christlike.

But some people deny the Spirit leading them and love sin more than God.

Continued in next post

 

[tablet123]

Continued from above post

L – limited atonement, meaning that Christ died to pay the penalty of sin only for the elect souls.

Again God wants all people to be saved and the Spirit said any person can have that salvation.

Isa 59:1 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Our sins separate us from God so if our sins are forgiven we can have salvation.

God is the Savior of all people and Jesus takes away the sins of the world.

So anybody can have their sins forgiven uniting them with God.

I – irresistible grace, meaning that elect souls cannot resist God’s will for them to believe and be saved.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron.

Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.

Some shall depart from the faith.

And Paul warns to continue in the faith and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel.

If there is a warning then it is possible to lose saving faith.

1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

adokimos
ad-ok'-ee-mos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless (literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate.

Paul said he could be a castaway, rejected, and a reprobate if he does not keep under his body which means abstaining from sin led by the Spirit.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

If they do not continue in the goodness of God they will be cut off.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

If a person is saved and goes back to sinning and do not correct it then it would be better if they had not known the truth than to turn from it.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

If a person hold unto sin then the blood of Christ cannot wash it away for God will not take away a sin they hold on to.

But this does not apply to the TULIP people and people like them for they say they cannot abstain from sin for they believe they can never measure up.

So that means they are sinning and holding on to sin which their sins are not washed away.

P – perseverance of the saints, meaning that the elect cannot repudiate their salvation and commit apostasy.

Luk 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Again not true for the Bible gives a warning that if a person is saved and goes back to living in sin they will not be saved.

And if a warning then it is possible for if it was not possible there would not be a warning.

But some people say they cannot abstain from sin, sinning, and holding on to sin because they say they are not perfect, only human, and cannot measure up.

But the Bible says by the Spirit we can abstain from sin and measure up.

But they deny the Spirit leading them loving sin more than God not coming to the truth.

Paul said turn away from them.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

You answer, “Because of unbelief.”

I ask, Is this unbelief a sin, or is it not? If it be, then Christ suffered the punishment due unto it, or He did not. If He did, why must that hinder them more than their other sins for which He died? If He did not, He did not die for all their sins!”

This is incomplete reasoning because receiving the forgiveness that Christ paid for depends on becoming a participant in the covenant that removes sins. The price was paid for all. but many choose not to accept that debt relief

 

[memberofthebride]

Think about what this Puritan stated:

For Whom Did Christ Die? by John Owen

The Father imposed His wrath due unto, and the Son underwent punishment for, either:

All the sins of all men.
All the sins of some men, or
Some of the sins of all men.

In which case it may be said:

That if the last be true, all men have some sins to answer for, and so, none are saved.
That if the second be true, then Christ, in their stead suffered for all the sins of all the elect in the whole world, and this is the truth.
But if the first be the case, why are not all men free from the punishment due unto their sins?

You answer, “Because of unbelief.”

I ask, Is this unbelief a sin, or is it not? If it be, then Christ suffered the punishment due unto it, or He did not. If He did, why must that hinder them more than their other sins for which He died? If He did not, He did not die for all their sins!”

The payment of death Jesus Christ came to earth, to make,( He was bled to death) (He Is our Passover), covers the debt for sin which is eternal death, His payment covers every person, past, present and future --that Repents of their sins, is baptized into the death and resurrection of Christ and then endures until the end.

Concerning those in the past, using logic, how can a person die for the second time unless they had died the first time? and How can a person die for the second time unless they live as physical humans for the second?

Revelation 20:
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Those in the first resurrection, rule with Christ, those that have lived and died for the first time come back to physical life after the 1000 years and are then judged. See Ezekiel 37