Pisteuo, and John 3:16

[Watchman22]

Pisteuo is used 248 times in the NT.

Strongs: 4100 = "Pisteuo means not just to BELIEVE, but also to be persuaded of; and hence, to place confidence in, to trust, and signifies in this sense of the word, reliance upon, not mere credence, hence it is translated " commit unto", "commit to ones trust ", "be committed unto ".

Vines: pisteuo is "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. "

Now I will simply replace the mistranslated word "believe" with the Vines definition of the Greek word pisteuo.

The mistranslation, John 3:16.
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever "believes" in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. "

The correct translation, John 3:16.
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever "personally surrenders their life to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender", should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I'd like to hear serious comments from those who are really seeking to know scripture and the way to follow Christ.

My question is, do you see a difference in these two translations?

 

[Gideon300]

Pisteuo is used 248 times in the NT.

Strongs: 4100 = "Pisteuo means not just to BELIEVE, but also to be persuaded of; and hence, to place confidence in, to trust, and signifies in this sense of the word, reliance upon, not mere credence, hence it is translated " commit unto", "commit to ones trust ", "be committed unto ".

Vines: pisteuo is "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. "

Now I will simply replace the mistranslated word "believe" with the Vines definition of the Greek word pisteuo.

The mistranslation, John 3:16.
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever "believes" in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. "

The correct translation, John 3:16.
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever "personally surrenders their life to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender", should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I'd like to hear serious comments from those who are really seeking to know scripture and the way to follow Christ.

My question is, do you see a difference in these two translations?

A good many Bible teachers know the difference between "believe" as an intellectual acceptance of facts and "believing in" as in a belief that results in an appropriate response. I personally know the difference. I had no trouble believing the facts about God as creator, Jesus as His Son, birth death and even resurrection. What I did not know was why it mattered. Now I do.

I explain it like this: I can believe that a passenger aircraft will get me to my destination. I can buy a ticket, get a visa, get to the airport and have my passport with me. Until I get on the aircraft, none of that is of any value. I'm going nowhere. Too many supposed Christians are like that, observers rather than participants. No one gives out prizes to spectators.

 

[Mem]

A financial lean emerged in the most recent discussion I was engaged in re: faith. And, indeed, monetary exchange is based upon a concept of 'good faith.' You won't surrender your dollar to anyone if you don't credit their 'promise' to be even worth 2 cents.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I'd like to hear serious comments from those who are really seeking to know scripture and the way to follow Christ.

We know the way and we know you're not a teacher of the way. Jesus wants you to surrender your addiction to Gene Scott and to live a life inspired by that surrender by following only him.

 

[timf]

The English word "believe" does not fully capture the trust element of pisteuo. This shows a weakness or word for word translations. Sometimes a phrase is necessary to capture the meaning more fully. For example, Wuest translates John 3:16 as "that everyone who places his trust in him"

 

[mailmandan]

A good many Bible teachers know the difference between "believe" as an intellectual acceptance of facts and "believing in" as in a belief that results in an appropriate response. I personally know the difference. I had no trouble believing the facts about God as creator, Jesus as His Son, birth death and even resurrection. What I did not know was why it mattered. Now I do.

I explain it like this: I can believe that a passenger aircraft will get me to my destination. I can buy a ticket, get a visa, get to the airport and have my passport with me. Until I get on the aircraft, none of that is of any value. I'm going nowhere. Too many supposed Christians are like that, observers rather than participants. No one gives out prizes to spectators.

That is where trust comes in. It's one thing to believe "mental assent" that the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ "happened" (even the demons believe that) and it's another thing to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) The latter is believing in our heart. (Romans 10:9,10) The demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" (James 2:19) but they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust is in Satan (and not in Jesus) as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

Now saving belief does result in actions appropriate to the belief (all genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful - Matthew 13:23) yet the actions are not inherent in the belief. Where certain folks (supposed Christians as you put it) can get confused is when they redefine belief "as" works which then culminates in salvation by works.

Strong’s Definitions
πιστεύω pisteúō, pist-yoo'-o; from G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):—believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

G4100 - pisteuō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)

 

[4urenlightment]

That is where trust comes in. It's one thing to believe "mental assent" that the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ "happened" (even the demons believe that) and it's another thing to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) The latter is believing in our heart. (Romans 10:9,10) The demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" (James 2:19) but they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust is in Satan (and not in Jesus) as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

Now saving belief does result in actions appropriate to the belief (all genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful - Matthew 13:23) yet the actions are not inherent in the belief. Where certain folks (supposed Christians as you put it) can get confused is when they redefine belief "as" works which then culminates in salvation by works.

Strong’s Definitions
πιστεύω pisteúō, pist-yoo'-o; from G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):—believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

G4100 - pisteuō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)

no, I can't believe in the resurrection because at the time, there was a law that prohibited anyone tampering or removing dead corpses, that they had centurions patrolling graveyards for any suspicious characters roaming around in the graves.
And so, how would Jesus be able to walk out of the tomb without being arrested for committing a capital crime?
if Jesus was caught, He would have been re-nailed to another cross for another criminal offense. And if He get caught again and again walking out of a tomb, that they'll put Him into a furnace or a lion den

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

That is where trust comes in. It's one thing to believe "mental assent" that the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ "happened" (even the demons believe that) and it's another thing to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) The latter is believing in our heart. (Romans 10:9,10) The demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" (James 2:19) but they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust is in Satan (and not in Jesus) as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

Now saving belief does result in actions appropriate to the belief (all genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful - Matthew 13:23) yet the actions are not inherent in the belief. Where certain folks (supposed Christians as you put it) can get confused is when they redefine belief "as" works which then culminates in salvation by works.

Strong’s Definitions
πιστεύω pisteúō, pist-yoo'-o; from G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):—believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

G4100 - pisteuō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)

Believe is a correct translation.
It has other equipment synonyms like trust and faith.

Demons believing and trembling is the Red Herring argument that takes the fish out of water.
That verse is not a teaching that believing is not God's proper intent for man's response to His gospel. That's what works savationists use to try to prove their heresy.
That passage is telling BELIEVERS to get to work. If YOU BELIEVERS are saved, then use your faith and show it to your fellow brother in need!
If you have an extra coat or blanket and your brother is cold, for crying out loud, give him a coat! Giving him a coat won't add to the completed atonement that Jesus did all by Himself, but it might show your bro that faith and that you love him like a Christian brother.

The KJV is not improved upon by online "experts" in the original languages. There's more proude and arrogant Greek scholars experts who can't hold a conversation with a 6 year old in Cypress. They are self proclaimed teachers of the Greek language.
This topic has gotten to the point with some of these to actually take a dictionary and pick and choose what suits their special works based legalism.

If we take what we're good at and share it with the English speaking unbelievers, they will get saved.

 

[studentoftheword]

Here r is the problem -----many do not understand that Belief in scripture has a deeper meaning than just an intellectual belief -----this is not taught in Churches because the Minister themselves are not knowing the Spiritual meaning of Belief -----they tell their Flock ---just Believe but never explain the real meaning of what this Belief means Spiritually ----- WHY ???? ---because they are NOT Born Again themselves ---they are wolfs in sheep's clothing -------trying to teach Spiritual things from their human intellectual Faith ---and have not a clue what the Belief really Spiritually means in regards to Believing in Jesus Christ ------

This Faith comes from Jesus who is the Word -------This Faith is NOT OUR FAITH -------This Faith Comes from Hearing the WORD who Is JESUS ------Jesus inbirths HIS FAITH IN US -------

Believing in Scripture means Believing in the unseen -- -trusting in a Person you don't see ----Relying on a Person you don't see ----- this belief ---this Faith has to be grounded and rooted in Jesus to be effective ----

This Faith is POWERFUL and EFFECTIVE

This Faith is Dynamic and can move mountains out of your way -----This Dynamic Belief is what produces all Spiritual Blessings and Promises in this Seen realm for True Believers -----this Dynamic Faith HEALS ----THIS Dynamic Faith ---Sanctifies ---and Redeems ---This Faith Saves -----

This Faith is your Title Deed ----to all Spiritual understanding and Reaping all Spiritual Benefits -----

God who IS GRACE ----has provided HIS Saving FAITH to us so we can access HIS Saving GRACE and reap the benefits of what His Grace makes available to us through His Saving Faith -----

David and Goliath is a perfect Example ---of Jesus' Faith in action through David reaping the Benefit of God's Grace through His Faith -----David trusted God --- His trust was grounded and rooted in God to do as God Said he would do ---protect him from his enemies ---and give him the --strength -- knowledge and wisdom to go up against his Mountain and defeat and conquer it ------moving the mountain through God's DYNAMIC FAITH ----

Christ's Faith is like DYNAMITE FOLKS -----It is NOT OUR FAITH -----there is ONLY ONE FAITH

This is not taught -----FOLKS

There are 3 Faiths ----

-Intellectual --Human Faith given at birth ---relies on the 5 Senses ----does not Save anyone

-Demonic Faith ---the demons believe Jesus is the Son Of God but they cannot be Saved ----

Both of these Faiths are NON PRODUCING Faiths of God's word -----

-Saving Grace comes through Saving Faith ----which comes by way of the Father Changing our Hardened hears to a soft (Flesh ) heart to internalize the Gospel that inbirths Christ's Saving Faith in us to be saved ----

----Our intellectual Faith is fruitless ---in understanding Spiritual Matters ------and this unfortunately is not taught in our Churches today -----Ministers are themselves ignorant as to what true Faith really is ---

So Sad -------there is One God ---ONE FAITH and One Baptism --so says scripture --and Many are Ignorant to this Fact ----People and Ministers

 

[Watchman22]

A good many Bible teachers know the difference between "believe" as an intellectual acceptance of facts and "believing in" as in a belief that results in an appropriate response. I personally know the difference. I had no trouble believing the facts about God as creator, Jesus as His Son, birth death and even resurrection. What I did not know was why it mattered. Now I do.

I explain it like this: I can believe that a passenger aircraft will get me to my destination. I can buy a ticket, get a visa, get to the airport and have my passport with me. Until I get on the aircraft, none of that is of any value. I'm going nowhere. Too many supposed Christians are like that, observers rather than participants. No one gives out prizes to spectators.

I can agree and respect what your stance is to a point. Half measure will avail nothing, luke warm in Gods word.

Do you accept the Vines definition of pisteuo being "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender "?

The Father gave His Son, the Son gave His life, our response to those gifts are what is defined in the Vines Greek dictionary.

 

[Watchman22]

A financial lean emerged in the most recent discussion I was engaged in re: faith. And, indeed, monetary exchange is based upon a concept of 'good faith.' You won't surrender your dollar to anyone if you don't credit their 'promise' to be even worth 2 cents.

Hi Mem,
I'm not sure what your leaning towards, but unfortunatly, money does play a big part in "the personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender " just like in the parable of the rich man.

If we are surrendering ourselves to Him, and are keeping a secret deliverance in our back pockets in case God fails to do what we want, that's not a genuine surrender, yes?

 

[Watchman22]

The English word "believe" does not fully capture the trust element of pisteuo. This shows a weakness or word for word translations. Sometimes a phrase is necessary to capture the meaning more fully. For example, Wuest translates John 3:16 as "that everyone who places his trust in him"

Hi timf,
Thanks for the positive lean.

You've highlighted the real problem, the
English can't translate the Greek word for word (In many cases). With pisteuo being precisely what our response to the call of the Father has to be to move forward in the salvation journey, it's a bigger issue than most think.

Pisteuo being a verb means it's an action word.
In the Greek, when you speak the word "pisteuo", you are communicating 3 things, and act, based upon a belief, sustained by confidence. Other words (nouns) would indicate what the object of pisteuo or faith ing is focused on.

If the object of pisteuo is "God", then 1) the act is a personal surrender to Him. 2) The belief is that He will accept the surrendered life. 3) sustained by daily choices that show God we really consider our lives to be His now.

This is what saving Faith is, what sound doctrine is. 2 Tim. 4:3:4.

I'm grateful for your positive feedback timf.

 

[Howdy]

Pisteuo is used 248 times in the NT.

Strongs: 4100 = "Pisteuo means not just to BELIEVE, but also to be persuaded of; and hence, to place confidence in, to trust, and signifies in this sense of the word, reliance upon, not mere credence, hence it is translated " commit unto", "commit to ones trust ", "be committed unto ".

Vines: pisteuo is "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. "

Now I will simply replace the mistranslated word "believe" with the Vines definition of the Greek word pisteuo.

The mistranslation, John 3:16.
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever "believes" in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. "

The correct translation, John 3:16.
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever "personally surrenders their life to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender", should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I'd like to hear serious comments from those who are really seeking to know scripture and the way to follow Christ.

My question is, do you see a difference in these two translations?

What you failed to mention is that their are three different words/spellings translated believe.
The word/spelling translated "surrender to him" is only used 8 times and is not used in John 3:16.
In John 3:16 the word/spelling means "to be persuaded, to rely upon, to put confidence in, to trust.
So you cannot use the meaning you choose to prove your false belief.

 

[Watchman22]

That is where trust comes in. It's one thing to believe "mental assent" that the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ "happened" (even the demons believe that) and it's another thing to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) The latter is believing in our heart. (Romans 10:9,10) The demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" (James 2:19) but they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust is in Satan (and not in Jesus) as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

Now saving belief does result in actions appropriate to the belief (all genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful - Matthew 13:23) yet the actions are not inherent in the belief. Where certain folks (supposed Christians as you put it) can get confused is when they redefine belief "as" works which then culminates in salvation by works.

Strong’s Definitions
πιστεύω pisteúō, pist-yoo'-o; from G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):—believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

G4100 - pisteuō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)

This is where the damage avails itself, with respect.

What makes this conversation so difficult is that the state we are in when we are first being called out by the Father is different than the state were in after we are His.

You said that saving Faith is "trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ." That saving faith response your standing on can't by itself move us forward in the salvation process "at the beginning ". But, it could be and should be "a part " of our life of faithing or pisteuo, "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender " AFTER " we are His. Before we are His, when we are simply being called out by the Father, Jesus, His word, and His promises, are not ours to trust in yet.

The words trusting, reliance upon, committed to, being committed unto, are all individual parts of the core definition which is "a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. "

If I'm being called out by the Father, and i respond with true pisteuo, knowing anything about Jesus or His word at that point isn't a requirement. And for most people in history that couldn't be a requirement. But a personal surrender to the caller and a life inspired by such surrender is a requirement and the correct one.

Understanding this is vital to those being called out, which I understand is everyone here in this forum.

 

[Watchman22]

no, I can't believe in the resurrection because at the time, there was a law that prohibited anyone tampering or removing dead corpses, that they had centurions patrolling graveyards for any
suspicious characters roaming around in the graves.
And so, how would Jesus be able to walk out of the tomb without being arrested for committing a capital crime?
if Jesus was caught, He would have been re-nailed to another cross for another criminal offense. And if He get caught again and again walking out of a tomb, that they'll put Him into a furnace or a lion den

That's another topic for another thread.

Please respect this one.

 

[Watchman22]

Here r is the problem -----many do not understand that Belief in scripture has a deeper meaning than just an intellectual belief -----this is not taught in Churches because the Minister themselves are not knowing the Spiritual meaning of Belief -----they tell their Flock ---just Believe but never explain the real meaning of what this Belief means Spiritually ----- WHY ???? ---because they are NOT Born Again themselves ---they are wolfs in sheep's clothing -------trying to teach Spiritual things from their human intellectual Faith ---and have not a clue what the Belief really Spiritually means in regards to Believing in Jesus Christ ------

This Faith comes from Jesus who is the Word -------This Faith is NOT OUR FAITH -------This Faith Comes from Hearing the WORD who Is JESUS ------Jesus inbirths HIS FAITH IN US -------

Believing in Scripture means Believing in the unseen -- -trusting in a Person you don't see ----Relying on a Person you don't see ----- this belief ---this Faith has to be grounded and rooted in Jesus to be effective ----

This Faith is POWERFUL and EFFECTIVE

This Faith is Dynamic and can move mountains out of your way -----This Dynamic Belief is what produces all Spiritual Blessings and Promises in this Seen realm for True Believers -----this Dynamic Faith HEALS ----THIS Dynamic Faith ---Sanctifies ---and Redeems ---This Faith Saves -----

This Faith is your Title Deed ----to all Spiritual understanding and Reaping all Spiritual Benefits -----

God who IS GRACE ----has provided HIS Saving FAITH to us so we can access HIS Saving GRACE and reap the benefits of what His Grace makes available to us through His Saving Faith -----

David and Goliath is a perfect Example ---of Jesus' Faith in action through David reaping the Benefit of God's Grace through His Faith -----David trusted God --- His trust was grounded and rooted in God to do as God Said he would do ---protect him from his enemies ---and give him the --strength -- knowledge and wisdom to go up against his Mountain and defeat and conquer it ------moving the mountain through God's DYNAMIC FAITH ----

Christ's Faith is like DYNAMITE FOLKS -----It is NOT OUR FAITH -----there is ONLY ONE FAITH

This is not taught -----FOLKS

There are 3 Faiths ----

-Intellectual --Human Faith given at birth ---relies on the 5 Senses ----does not Save anyone

-Demonic Faith ---the demons believe Jesus is the Son Of God but they cannot be Saved ----

Both of these Faiths are NON PRODUCING Faiths of God's word -----

-Saving Grace comes through Saving Faith ----which comes by way of the Father Changing our Hardened hears to a soft (Flesh ) heart to internalize the Gospel that inbirths Christ's Saving Faith in us to be saved ----

----Our intellectual Faith is fruitless ---in understanding Spiritual Matters ------and this unfortunately is not taught in our Churches today -----Ministers are themselves ignorant as to what true Faith really is ---

So Sad -------there is One God ---ONE FAITH and One Baptism --so says scripture --and Many are Ignorant to this Fact ----People and Ministers

View attachment 283588

Alot that I agree with here studentothword.

What is your understanding, specifically, of what the response to the call of the Father to move the salvation forward is?

 

[Watchman22]

What you failed to mention is that their are three different words/spellings translated believe.
The word/spelling translated "surrender to him" is only used 8 times and is not used in John 3:16.
In John 3:16 the word/spelling means "to be persuaded, to rely upon, to put confidence in, to trust.
So you cannot use the meaning you choose to prove your false belief.

thanks for the reply .

The word "believe" is not in the Greek language.

See rediscovering pisteuo thread if your interested.

 

[Howdy]

thanks for the reply .

The word "believe" is not in the Greek language.

See rediscovering pisteuo thread if your interested.

Of course it is not but there are 3 different words/spellings in the Greek translated believe, believed, believest, believeth, or believing in the English.

 

[studentoftheword]

What is your understanding, specifically, of what the response to the call of the Father to move the salvation forward is?

Christ's Faith is a Heart Issue---Christ Faith comes from Hearing the Word ---and the Word penetrates the heart of a person ------

So what is the meaning of Heart here ------it is not the heart that pumps your blood

Strong's Concordance

Topical Lexicon
Heart (kardia

the center and seat of spiritual life, "the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavors" (so in English heart, inner man

its dominant usage is figurative, summarizing the inner life of a person: intellect, emotion, conscience, and will.

So I say =====

the response to the call of the Father who changes the hardened heart to a heart of accepting and the grasping of the Gospel is to start reading the Gospel so Christ's Faith is inbirthed in you to believe in your heart what the Word is saying is the Truth and will Save you as it says it will do -----

Sinners do not have the right heart to accept the Spoken Word of the Gospel (the Rhema Word )----all they have is the ability to read the Logos word ---which really makes no sense to them ------

Hope this answers your question ?????

 

[Watchman22]

Christ's Faith is a Heart Issue---Christ Faith comes from Hearing the Word ---and the Word penetrates the heart of a person ------

So what is the meaning of Heart here ------it is not the heart that pumps your blood

Strong's Concordance

Topical Lexicon
Heart (kardia

the center and seat of spiritual life, "the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavors" (so in English heart, inner man

its dominant usage is figurative, summarizing the inner life of a person: intellect, emotion, conscience, and will.

So I say =====

the response to the call of the Father who changes the hardened heart to a heart of accepting and the grasping of the Gospel is to start reading the Gospel so Christ's Faith is inbirthed in you to believe in your heart what the Word is saying is the Truth and will Save you as it says it will do -----

Sinners do not have the right heart to accept the Spoken Word of the Gospel (the Rhema Word )----all they have is the ability to read the Logos word ---which really makes no sense to them ------

Hope this answers your question ?????

Thanks for your reply,
Again, alot i agree with.

But if I may, allow me to test you a bit.

In your understanding, it's a requirement for the completed written word to be available to the one being called out by the Father?
And that includes all people throughout history, even before the written word existed?

And where does the Vines Greek dictionary definition come in ?