V
VegHead
Guest
What music do you think is sinful? Not the obvious, like some death metal, but whatever you can think of that you don't think is right.
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
Evicka
Guest
Well I've been thinking about it and I'm still not absolutely sure,Someone thinks that all rock music (including christian rock) is bad, also hip hop is not very good.. But I still think that the most important is lyrics, but I remove all rock songs from my ipod, just in case
.. Visit this page, you can find here a lot of examples, which songs, bands and types of music are from devil.. The Devil's Music
.. Visit this page, you can find here a lot of examples, which songs, bands and types of music are from devil.. The Devil's Music
X
xJoe
Guest
Music is mainly a preference in my opinion.
You can go to Africa and they'll be banging really hard on drums ect ect. are they sinning? That music is sooo loud so it :must: be sinful right? wrong
Lyrics first of all are the first indicator. Bad lyrics is bad music. Then the beat comes into contact. this depends on the person.
If some music draws you to think about bad things and towards bad subjects then you need to stop. Music effects everyone differently so NO ONE can answer everyone's question concerning it.
But we can get this straight, not all music is for worshiping God. I use Christian rap / rock for entertainment. But we don't always have to listen to God worshiping music. But we can't be listening to Satan glorified music.
So Lyrics first of all then you see how the songs effect you. If they have no wrong effect on you then I can't say its negative.
Remember this is different for everyone
You can go to Africa and they'll be banging really hard on drums ect ect. are they sinning? That music is sooo loud so it :must: be sinful right? wrong
Lyrics first of all are the first indicator. Bad lyrics is bad music. Then the beat comes into contact. this depends on the person.
If some music draws you to think about bad things and towards bad subjects then you need to stop. Music effects everyone differently so NO ONE can answer everyone's question concerning it.
But we can get this straight, not all music is for worshiping God. I use Christian rap / rock for entertainment. But we don't always have to listen to God worshiping music. But we can't be listening to Satan glorified music.
So Lyrics first of all then you see how the songs effect you. If they have no wrong effect on you then I can't say its negative.
Remember this is different for everyone
G
goth4god
Guest
death metal is not "obviously" sinful.
it depends on the band. the 'sinful' part comes from the lyrics, NOT the sound of the band.
These lyrics are from a Christian death metal band. read them and tell me they are sinful.
Lyrics to King by For Today.
This is my generation, and I will not watch it die. But, you are the only hope. It’s our destiny to stand tall at your side. You are the only hope. Beyond comprehension, your voice will shake the earth. You are the only hope, so I bring you praise.
You are faithful, Lord. In righteousness you judge and make war. You are my victory. Let every knee bow, and every created tongue confess that you are Lord. You are my victory. You will judge the works of man, still I will say, “You are my victory.” So I rise to see your reign manifested. In majesty, take your place enthroned above all.
Eyes of fire. The mountains tremble at Your voice. God of glory, come in justice and righteousness to bring war. God of glory, come in justice and righteousness to bring peace.
I can see coming deliverance from the hand of God. Salvation, come. I can see new dreams awakening, born from the heart of God. Redemption, come. I can see the saints igniting life as the voice of God. Revolution, come.
Long live the King!
This is my generation, and I will not watch it die. But, you are the only hope. It’s our destiny to stand tall at your side. You are the only hope. Beyond comprehension, your voice will shake the earth. You are the only hope, so I bring you praise.
You are faithful, Lord. In righteousness you judge and make war. You are my victory. Let every knee bow, and every created tongue confess that you are Lord. You are my victory. You will judge the works of man, still I will say, “You are my victory.” So I rise to see your reign manifested. In majesty, take your place enthroned above all.
Eyes of fire. The mountains tremble at Your voice. God of glory, come in justice and righteousness to bring war. God of glory, come in justice and righteousness to bring peace.
I can see coming deliverance from the hand of God. Salvation, come. I can see new dreams awakening, born from the heart of God. Redemption, come. I can see the saints igniting life as the voice of God. Revolution, come.
Long live the King!
it depends on the band. the 'sinful' part comes from the lyrics, NOT the sound of the band.
These lyrics are from a Christian death metal band. read them and tell me they are sinful.
Lyrics to King by For Today.
This is my generation, and I will not watch it die. But, you are the only hope. It’s our destiny to stand tall at your side. You are the only hope. Beyond comprehension, your voice will shake the earth. You are the only hope, so I bring you praise.
You are faithful, Lord. In righteousness you judge and make war. You are my victory. Let every knee bow, and every created tongue confess that you are Lord. You are my victory. You will judge the works of man, still I will say, “You are my victory.” So I rise to see your reign manifested. In majesty, take your place enthroned above all.
Eyes of fire. The mountains tremble at Your voice. God of glory, come in justice and righteousness to bring war. God of glory, come in justice and righteousness to bring peace.
I can see coming deliverance from the hand of God. Salvation, come. I can see new dreams awakening, born from the heart of God. Redemption, come. I can see the saints igniting life as the voice of God. Revolution, come.
Long live the King!
This is my generation, and I will not watch it die. But, you are the only hope. It’s our destiny to stand tall at your side. You are the only hope. Beyond comprehension, your voice will shake the earth. You are the only hope, so I bring you praise.
You are faithful, Lord. In righteousness you judge and make war. You are my victory. Let every knee bow, and every created tongue confess that you are Lord. You are my victory. You will judge the works of man, still I will say, “You are my victory.” So I rise to see your reign manifested. In majesty, take your place enthroned above all.
Eyes of fire. The mountains tremble at Your voice. God of glory, come in justice and righteousness to bring war. God of glory, come in justice and righteousness to bring peace.
I can see coming deliverance from the hand of God. Salvation, come. I can see new dreams awakening, born from the heart of God. Redemption, come. I can see the saints igniting life as the voice of God. Revolution, come.
Long live the King!
X
xJoe
Guest
not exactly only the lyrics. the mood it sets you in is important. If someone sets you in a violent or unstable mood it is something you shouldn't listen to. If not then I would say it's safe. Not only lyrics but how the song effects overall.
G
goth4god
Guest
death metal, or any kind of metal does not put me in a bad mood.
it pumps me up!
and it is also how I worship.
it pumps me up!
and it is also how I worship.
X
xJoe
Guest
D
DanuckInUSA
Guest
I would go if the Spirit is convicting you that a type of music is not right the Spirit is true in that conviction.
E
EverlastingChange
Guest
I agree with both "xJoe" and "Evicka" on the basis of the lyrical content is the most important factor. But I think that the sound or beat of the song too can be just as important and is often overlooked. You see this is where Christian "death metal" loses me. To begin with it's name. Do we forget that the word "Christian" is simply Christ with "ian" added on ? Essentially you glorify a music that titled "Christ(ian) death - metal". What's my problem with this? I don't see the word RESURRECTION after the word death. You glorify a sound of music that is actually named after "Death", yet you throw it together with the word Christian, and suddenly it becomes a grey area? Cause it's good partnered with bad so it makes it sort of okay right? 2 Corinthians 6:14 ".. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?"
Yes Okay the lyrics, may appear to be praising God. But let's be honest, most of us wouldn't know what on earth their saying unless we googled the lyrics. They could be singing about anything. In fact I could go as far to say that if I was to be flicking through the music channels, and went past Kerrang and this song was playing "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90VWlF9lT38 - For Today - King" I honestly would not be able to tell the difference between so called "Christian Death Metal" and ordinary "Death Metal". The bible says.. "Therefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things are passed away; behold, new things have come." 2 Corinthians 5:17.
Why then do soo many people who call themselves Christian CLING to a sound of music, that captivated them in the first place. Right I'm not being nasty here, but the majority of teens who physically harm themselves, have suicidal thoughts, depression etc listen to this kind of music and are imprisoned by it. Yet when they turn Christian and become NEW CREATURES IN CHRIST all they do is substitute the "Death Metal" for "Christian Death Metal", and everything's great cause the lyrics are no longer violent, or depressing. But the sound of the music STILL IS, the lyrics that appear to be glorifying God are drowned out in the unnecessary aggressive form of sharing lyrics. And I can see no good that comes from it! It stirs my soul.
"goth4god" please don't think I'm set out against you or in anyway trying to be spiteful and nasty towards you. I just want you to think about it. Remember.. Faithful are the wounds of a friend, But deceitful are the kisses of an enemy - Proverbs 27:6. Goth is the celebration of death and destruction. Why they were black, represents death. Yet your username is "goth4god" ? basically "death&destruction4god" Your supposed to be saved! Your supposed to be a new creature! Why then do you still cling to the old? You have not gave ALL of yourself to the Lord.
This has NOT always been an issue. It's only the last 30 years or so we have had Christian metal. Christian metal is not holy lyrics with the same old death metal sound. It's a person addicted to the death metal sound trying to merge it together with this great new thing they've discovered called God . What does righteousness have in common with the wicked?! What you are addicted to is the sound of the death metal music that is fooling many by throwing the name christian in front of it and continues to feed the negativity inside you that held you prisoner in the first place. Am I speaking any sense to anyone?
I came across a girl the other day on CC (I won't name her) she posted on a thread that I was helping a girl with who was having trouble sleeping, she says she felt like someone was watching her, could not even get to sleep with her bedroom lights on, the only way she got to sleep was when the sun began to rise. My heart went out to her cause I've been there, and I've overcome it through Jesus Christ. But anyway this girl who commented on this thread saying.. "Yeah I'm the same sometimes, can never really figure out why though.." I click on her username to see her profile and her picture is her dressed in black giving the devils horns signal with her hand (index finger and pinky only facing upwards). Unsurprisingly she is another who is a Christian who glorifies "Christian Death Metal"
See what I mean?! This is Satan working his way in! He'll use ANYTHING he can to slow us down. We must understand here on earth he only has 2 goals. 1. To stop us ever becoming Christian, and if he can't do that the second is to stop us being an EFFECTIVE Christian, and if so many of us are still addicted to something from our old lives when we claim to be something new from Christ, right there you have your stumbling block for so many. "Christian Death Metal" - essentially the enemy pulling the wool over peoples eyes.. and we fall for it, we fall for it.
I do not say these things to be cruel, only to try and share some truth with you! I just pray that you or others like you take into consideration what I'm saying. And that Jesus Christ will TRULY set you free, for Jesus said - "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he anointed me to preach good tidings to the poor: He hath sent me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised.." - Luke 4:18
Yes Okay the lyrics, may appear to be praising God. But let's be honest, most of us wouldn't know what on earth their saying unless we googled the lyrics. They could be singing about anything. In fact I could go as far to say that if I was to be flicking through the music channels, and went past Kerrang and this song was playing "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90VWlF9lT38 - For Today - King" I honestly would not be able to tell the difference between so called "Christian Death Metal" and ordinary "Death Metal". The bible says.. "Therefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things are passed away; behold, new things have come." 2 Corinthians 5:17.
Why then do soo many people who call themselves Christian CLING to a sound of music, that captivated them in the first place. Right I'm not being nasty here, but the majority of teens who physically harm themselves, have suicidal thoughts, depression etc listen to this kind of music and are imprisoned by it. Yet when they turn Christian and become NEW CREATURES IN CHRIST all they do is substitute the "Death Metal" for "Christian Death Metal", and everything's great cause the lyrics are no longer violent, or depressing. But the sound of the music STILL IS, the lyrics that appear to be glorifying God are drowned out in the unnecessary aggressive form of sharing lyrics. And I can see no good that comes from it! It stirs my soul.
"goth4god" please don't think I'm set out against you or in anyway trying to be spiteful and nasty towards you. I just want you to think about it. Remember.. Faithful are the wounds of a friend, But deceitful are the kisses of an enemy - Proverbs 27:6. Goth is the celebration of death and destruction. Why they were black, represents death. Yet your username is "goth4god" ? basically "death&destruction4god" Your supposed to be saved! Your supposed to be a new creature! Why then do you still cling to the old? You have not gave ALL of yourself to the Lord.
This has NOT always been an issue. It's only the last 30 years or so we have had Christian metal. Christian metal is not holy lyrics with the same old death metal sound. It's a person addicted to the death metal sound trying to merge it together with this great new thing they've discovered called God . What does righteousness have in common with the wicked?! What you are addicted to is the sound of the death metal music that is fooling many by throwing the name christian in front of it and continues to feed the negativity inside you that held you prisoner in the first place. Am I speaking any sense to anyone?
I came across a girl the other day on CC (I won't name her) she posted on a thread that I was helping a girl with who was having trouble sleeping, she says she felt like someone was watching her, could not even get to sleep with her bedroom lights on, the only way she got to sleep was when the sun began to rise. My heart went out to her cause I've been there, and I've overcome it through Jesus Christ. But anyway this girl who commented on this thread saying.. "Yeah I'm the same sometimes, can never really figure out why though.." I click on her username to see her profile and her picture is her dressed in black giving the devils horns signal with her hand (index finger and pinky only facing upwards). Unsurprisingly she is another who is a Christian who glorifies "Christian Death Metal"
See what I mean?! This is Satan working his way in! He'll use ANYTHING he can to slow us down. We must understand here on earth he only has 2 goals. 1. To stop us ever becoming Christian, and if he can't do that the second is to stop us being an EFFECTIVE Christian, and if so many of us are still addicted to something from our old lives when we claim to be something new from Christ, right there you have your stumbling block for so many. "Christian Death Metal" - essentially the enemy pulling the wool over peoples eyes.. and we fall for it, we fall for it.
I do not say these things to be cruel, only to try and share some truth with you! I just pray that you or others like you take into consideration what I'm saying. And that Jesus Christ will TRULY set you free, for Jesus said - "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he anointed me to preach good tidings to the poor: He hath sent me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised.." - Luke 4:18
X
xJoe
Guest
I see your point but also your point lacks.
Did you know Christmas is a pagan Holiday? Why should we celebrate Christmas? We give praise to the God of the Son rah!
why celebrate halloween? that has to be a huge satanic holiday. Easter a Rabbit jumps around and gives out eggs. That has nothing to do with Christ!
We can say that or we can say. It means something different now. WHY ARE WE CLINGING TO THE OLD WERE NEW CREATURES! When i celebrate those holidays I don't do it to glorify what it used to mean. I give God the glory during them.
SO for music when I listen to certain music I give God the glory. He created music and he gave me certain taste in music. How can i listen to other music that I just despise the nature of? Why would God even give me a nature to like this music if its corrupted filth?
You are labeling someone just because what it means to you is not what i means to them.
Granted i will give you the fact that I can not see what good or positive effect metal could have on someone. But I will also say the same for christian rock / rap or anything new.
It is not your place or mine to judge how music effects people. YOUR NOT THE ONE EFFECTED. so how can you tell them how they are effected when you in fact are not that person? This person is the only person who knows how the music effects them. They will ONLY LEARN the way it effects them by there self. Not by you condemning them. IF the music is not having a negative effect on them HOW CAN YOU say its wrong? If it has correct lyrics and the tone and beat of the music isn't negatively effecting them how is it sin?
SIN is a act against Gods divine law or commandment. or willingly disobeying God
Show me a verse where it says louder music is a sin to listen to? or the beat determines if the music is sin?
This is a personal trial with every person determining what they can and can not listen to. PEOPLE WILL GET NO WHERE when you tell them what to do. Let her find it out her self.
also for your statement of clinging to the old. ENTERTAINMENT IS NOT SIN. If we as Christians do not enjoy our life then our religion is the most pointless religion out there.
Romans 8:37
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us
We are not conquerors if we do not enjoy life.
In the end music is just entertainment. HOW the music effects us ONLY WE can decide. We can only make the judgment if or if not it is harmful. NO ONE ELSE can make that decision for us. So if your trying to help a better way would be to have her examine herself not for you to pass judgment based off of your beliefs.
NO MUSIC IN ITSELF IS SIN. But how it makes us feel and react determines if we should listen to it.
This is different for everyone. One answer does not fit all people. your answer does not fit her because you guys have different taste in music and music effects both of you differently.
You, me and everyone in the world can not say how something effects anyone but OUR SELF. Do not try to tell someone how something personally effects them. It is foolishness
Did you know Christmas is a pagan Holiday? Why should we celebrate Christmas? We give praise to the God of the Son rah!
why celebrate halloween? that has to be a huge satanic holiday. Easter a Rabbit jumps around and gives out eggs. That has nothing to do with Christ!
We can say that or we can say. It means something different now. WHY ARE WE CLINGING TO THE OLD WERE NEW CREATURES! When i celebrate those holidays I don't do it to glorify what it used to mean. I give God the glory during them.
SO for music when I listen to certain music I give God the glory. He created music and he gave me certain taste in music. How can i listen to other music that I just despise the nature of? Why would God even give me a nature to like this music if its corrupted filth?
You are labeling someone just because what it means to you is not what i means to them.
Granted i will give you the fact that I can not see what good or positive effect metal could have on someone. But I will also say the same for christian rock / rap or anything new.
It is not your place or mine to judge how music effects people. YOUR NOT THE ONE EFFECTED. so how can you tell them how they are effected when you in fact are not that person? This person is the only person who knows how the music effects them. They will ONLY LEARN the way it effects them by there self. Not by you condemning them. IF the music is not having a negative effect on them HOW CAN YOU say its wrong? If it has correct lyrics and the tone and beat of the music isn't negatively effecting them how is it sin?
SIN is a act against Gods divine law or commandment. or willingly disobeying God
Show me a verse where it says louder music is a sin to listen to? or the beat determines if the music is sin?
This is a personal trial with every person determining what they can and can not listen to. PEOPLE WILL GET NO WHERE when you tell them what to do. Let her find it out her self.
also for your statement of clinging to the old. ENTERTAINMENT IS NOT SIN. If we as Christians do not enjoy our life then our religion is the most pointless religion out there.
Romans 8:37
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us
We are not conquerors if we do not enjoy life.
In the end music is just entertainment. HOW the music effects us ONLY WE can decide. We can only make the judgment if or if not it is harmful. NO ONE ELSE can make that decision for us. So if your trying to help a better way would be to have her examine herself not for you to pass judgment based off of your beliefs.
NO MUSIC IN ITSELF IS SIN. But how it makes us feel and react determines if we should listen to it.
This is different for everyone. One answer does not fit all people. your answer does not fit her because you guys have different taste in music and music effects both of you differently.
You, me and everyone in the world can not say how something effects anyone but OUR SELF. Do not try to tell someone how something personally effects them. It is foolishness
I've been ridiculed by my family and friends for my musical preferences. I happen to be a HUGE Marilyn Manson fan. I think that band grossly misunderstood. I think a lot of things are. I think, and this goes for all art, if it promotes physical danger to yourself or others, it's unhealthy. The word "sin" itself is a very complex term. And very broad. More so than some may think. Different branches of Christianity has different definitions for the word. Maybe not for some universal concepts, but atleast for some grey areas. I dont know.. I don't think if something makes you happy and if it makes you appreciate yourself better that it could be that bad.
P
peachetty
Guest
well i for one LOVE death metal or any kinda of metal, screamo or even plain old metal! lol it puts me in an exsighted state, it makes me what to get up and do somthing! death metal is only bad if the words are bad, as it is with every other typ of music..theres no particular kind that is bad or good.... it all has to do with whos singing it and whats being sung...
Bad music= music that talks about drugs, sex, vilence, somthing contrary to the word of God, and cussing. oh yes, and if its like parswadeing you to like go kill yourself or kill someone else or just do somthing bad, or think bad thoughts.... TURN IT OFF! XD
thats all ima say
Bad music= music that talks about drugs, sex, vilence, somthing contrary to the word of God, and cussing. oh yes, and if its like parswadeing you to like go kill yourself or kill someone else or just do somthing bad, or think bad thoughts.... TURN IT OFF! XD
thats all ima say
P
peachetty
Guest
oh and i would also like to say somthing about emo music.... when most ppl listen to it is when they are already feeling very sad, or depressed... emo music just makes it worse since it usually adresses your feelings with more sadness and introduces more pain to your life becuz it allows you to dwell on your problems.... if you really want to get out of your saddness LISTEN TO SOMTHING HAPPY! ... instead of matching your mood with the kind of music you listen to make it the oposit of what your feeling (that is when your depressed)... so when your sad listen to music that will bring your spirits up and when your happy listen to music that will keep you happy pappy and bursting with joy! LOL
E
EverlastingChange
Guest
@ "xJoe"
I honestly never knew about Christmas being a pagan holiday, that's very interesting I'll look into that, thanks for pointing it out
. As for halloween I personally don't celebrate it, for the very reason you said I also think it is satanic. Easter, well.. I can't really say I celebrate it. I don't dress up, I don't go out rejoicing and glorifying it. To me it's just another day, but importantly it's a day that's been preserved as to remember the rolling away of the stone in Jesus' tomb and his resurrection.Your right why would he give you a nature to like something that's corrupted filth? Well, he doesn't. When we desire something we know is wrong, it's nothing less than the wickedness of the human heart, a side effect of Sin. Which we all have, just because we're saved, it does not mean were no longer exempt from sin. In fact were even more likely to be tempted by sin. Cause like I already mentioned, if the enemy fails to stop you becoming a Christian, his only hope now is to do everything he can to stop you being an effective one, and maybe even tempt you to fall back into you old ways. Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 1 Peter 5:8
Is not the bible full of warnings of things that are harmful to us, yet we we've spent most of our lives before knowing Christ loving them.? The most bold example of this, would be Proverbs 14:12 - There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death. Notice it does not say a " man of the lord" or "an unbelieving man" Why? Cause it makes no difference. We ALL have relevancy to this verse.
You must understand I never set out to label anyone, if I come across this way you've misunderstood. It's only cause I see what this type of music does to people, my cousin is a primary example. It honestly discontents me to the point I become passionate and enthusiastic when trying to express my opinion on it. I don't say it boldly to be cynical or judgemental but to hopefully shock them into life. I don't believe we should sit quietly in a corner and never try and point out what we may believe as a simple flaw in someone in fear of being labelled as judgemental. How meaningless would the bible be if Jesus never want around trying to convince people of their flaws, but instead hoped for them to discover it themselves. What hope would there have been for the Pharisee's, or the Jews or the Gentiles? Did Paul preach this way? Did ANY of the Lord's disciples preach this way?
Some call it "seeker friendly" but what we have to realize, if we want to be seeker friendly, we have to be friendly to the seeker, and there's only one seeker and that's God. Bypassing things we feel are wrong not to hurt the other persons feelings and in hope that they discover this themselves is madness, most of them don't for that very reason of people hoping they discover it themselves. It's not seeker-friendly, it's basically selfishness. Selfish cause we are afraid of being misinterpreted and what will be said or thought of us. But if we believe it to be true, why should we fear what anyone says or thinks? I also said numerous times in that post I wasn't saying these things to be spiteful or nasty, like i also said in the last post I'll repeat here again.. Faithful are the wounds of a friend, But deceitful are the kisses of an enemy - Proverbs 27:6
It does not take a whole lot of common sense to know that listening to something angry or aggressive daily over periods of time, will have a negative effect on you. You yourself have agreed that you can see no good that can come from heavy metal, yet you go onto say we can not decide what effect it has on a person? Does listening to anger or aggression have any other affect than a negative one? They may not be played out straight away, most people opress this negativity, but you can guarantee over time you will see a negative pattern in someone's life that does not need to be there.
A very well known Greek philosopher once said something I believe to have a lot of truth in it.
"When the mode of the music changes, the walls of the city shake." said Plato, "When modes of music change, the fundamental laws of the state change with them."
"The introduction of a new kind of music must be shunned as imperilling the whole state."
"...through foolishness they, the people, deceived themselves into thinking that there was no right or wrong in music, that it was to be judged good or bad by the PLEASURE it gave...a spirit of law breaking." - Est. 400 A.D Plado.
What does the bible say about pleasure?
For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into SENSUALITY and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. Jude 1:4
Definition of sensuality? "desire for sensual pleasures"
And don't we all consider what is entertainment by of our own sensuality to whatever it may be?
Interesting to think about isn't it?
X
xJoe
Guest
you see this is your opinion. Now i agree with a lot of it but this is where your wrong.
OPINION is not scripture. How you read and understand scripture for a lot of things is not opinion but fact.
Jesus Died for my sins fact. I am saved by grace fact. Metal is a sin, opinion.
your using common sense and logic plus some bible verses that have nothing to do with music to prove your points. you can't do that with the bible.
even though evidently it might seem like Sin you can not say it is. I have no problem with you saying I think its wrong because of.... then you giving examples. I have a problem with you declaring something sin God does not. your adding to scripture.
I used to think a lot like you in some of these regards but I came to the conclusion personal belief is not held by everyone. and if someone doesn't hold your personal belief it doesn't mean there sinning. You are primarily holding a baptist belief with your regards towards this like I but you are making a mistake.
I will also note what you said about pleasure has nothing to do with anything we have talked about.
Pleasure is only a sin when it is the purpose of our life.
God has brought me much more pleasure in all of my daily activitiys. I don't seek pleasure. But I have it because of God. He gives me pleasure in his things.
Metal i will say in my opinion is not smart to listen to neither logical. BUT NO ONE CAN SAY it is a sin.
Unless God deems something a sin it is up for grabs. I have a problem when someone puts words into Gods mouth. Just because you have seen negative effects and witnessed it in others first hand doesn't mean God said it was a sin. That is where you are mistaken.
Sin is what God says not what we can logically come up with.
that is why this is personal conviction. a personal trial that everyone has to go through. If the music is indeed harmful then the person would know its harming them and then know they shouldn't listen to it. But if it is not then there is nothing wrong with it.
my main point is SIN is what God says not what we logically come up with.
I in no way shape or form agree with death metal. but can i say God deemed it a sin? No, because he didn't
i didn't write this to attack you or anything but to try to help in regards to deeming things sinful that God does not
OPINION is not scripture. How you read and understand scripture for a lot of things is not opinion but fact.
Jesus Died for my sins fact. I am saved by grace fact. Metal is a sin, opinion.
your using common sense and logic plus some bible verses that have nothing to do with music to prove your points. you can't do that with the bible.
even though evidently it might seem like Sin you can not say it is. I have no problem with you saying I think its wrong because of.... then you giving examples. I have a problem with you declaring something sin God does not. your adding to scripture.
I used to think a lot like you in some of these regards but I came to the conclusion personal belief is not held by everyone. and if someone doesn't hold your personal belief it doesn't mean there sinning. You are primarily holding a baptist belief with your regards towards this like I but you are making a mistake.
I will also note what you said about pleasure has nothing to do with anything we have talked about.
Pleasure is only a sin when it is the purpose of our life.
God has brought me much more pleasure in all of my daily activitiys. I don't seek pleasure. But I have it because of God. He gives me pleasure in his things.
Metal i will say in my opinion is not smart to listen to neither logical. BUT NO ONE CAN SAY it is a sin.
Unless God deems something a sin it is up for grabs. I have a problem when someone puts words into Gods mouth. Just because you have seen negative effects and witnessed it in others first hand doesn't mean God said it was a sin. That is where you are mistaken.
Sin is what God says not what we can logically come up with.
that is why this is personal conviction. a personal trial that everyone has to go through. If the music is indeed harmful then the person would know its harming them and then know they shouldn't listen to it. But if it is not then there is nothing wrong with it.
my main point is SIN is what God says not what we logically come up with.
I in no way shape or form agree with death metal. but can i say God deemed it a sin? No, because he didn't
i didn't write this to attack you or anything but to try to help in regards to deeming things sinful that God does not
Last edited:
X
xJoe
Guest
regards to you who listen to marilyn manson that is something you should avoid. Misunderstood? His songs approve violence and he actually probley caused a lot of it with his music.
For Marilyn Manson there is no reason for you to listen to him. He stands for sin. His lyrics are sinful and his life is not according to God.
Some things are up for grabs but he is not.
Look at his life and tell me Jesus Christ would approve of anything he sings about?
again im not trying to be mean but with him there is no maybes. He is obviously wrong to listen to.
If you still think hes not then please tell me how you justify his lyrics?
The genre of music he sings is a grey area but he himself is not a grey area.
As an avid fan, I'd be more than happy to discuss it with you. I believe in healthy debates/discussions. I actually would have a lot to talk about if your up for it. You could PM me if you want and we could have a more in depth conversation. I don't know if other people on this site would like to hear what I have to say. I do not wish to offend anyone and I'm still getting used to the rules and things. But in short, here's a few things I'll point out right off the bat:
I have no desire to listen to music with lyrics rich in meaningless violence. I am not a fan of death metal or hip hop/rap. I feel there are just meaningless swearing/gang violence/etc.. contained in much of the above mentioned genres, just for the sake of it. In the case of Marilyn Manson, I, and many other strong fans (not greatest hits type of people, but fans who actually dig deep and have a further understand and appreciation for the music), find him to be a great intellectual stimulant. Misunderstood? Definately. One example of lyrics, and this is just a song selected at random, but let's examine the song "The Dope Show". I'm aware of some basic history in music and pop culture. And I've heard a lot about the devastated parents who took that song for face value and thought the song was about drugs. IT IS NOT! lol. Manson's enjoys using metaphors and dichotomies. In that particular song, any mention of the word "drug", "dope", etc... is a reference to Hollywood and actors. What is a drug? A substance? Only sometimes. I admire an artist that plays with words to such expertise as Marilyn Manson. In his world, drug is any form of addiction. There are songs with the lyric, "God is in the T.V.". This confuses certain people and it has offended. Well, I believe it's a sarcastic insult to people television obsessed. There are some sad people that do indeed worship their television, living day by day by the time scheduals of their favourite dumb, mindless, junk food shows.
Anyway, I could sit here and go into all kinds of detail, but my main point about the misunderstanding people have is this: People take things too literally. Art is a question mark. Certain lyrics are designed to promote thought. Even if there is no absolute end meaning or message, he wants to challenge his audience. He wants them to question everything. To not be naive. Whether it's religion, science, politics, etc... Don't except it just because it was told to you. Go and do your own research and find out the real truth. Because there is a lot of scams out there. Cults in other forms, not just theologically.
I am not personally aware of any song's the man has written that approve violence. If you could find one in which a literal violent message that was not written to evoke a feeling or an emotion or an idea, I'd be very happy to hear it. But you might have some trouble in finding one. Every single album is a concept piece. He creates characters to tell fictional or non fictional stories. Again, for some reason, people take much of it too seriously and literally. He is simply an entertainer that chooses to teach while entertaining. Some people get the message and others don't. But it beats the mindless, record exec mentality of putting together some talentless pop band with no value or worth. No, I have great respect for bands like Marilyn Manson and Pink Floyd is another one. But I do realize it's not Christian music. But that doesnt mean it should be ran from like a plague. No, that in itself would be weakness and fear. People shouldnt shy away from something. That gives it power over them, as an individual.
One last thing. I don't like a lot of Christian music. Not for any other reason than just... I find it too easy and simple. Like, anyone could come up with these lyrics. Most of it isnt very creative or imaginative to me. If your looking for excellent Christian music, I'd like everyone to seriously look into Alice Cooper. And I'm being serious. He wasnt always Christian. But he was born again a long time ago and the guy is very talented and puts out really brilliant concept pieces. He's another story teller. His last album, "Along Came A Spider" tells the story of a serial killer. Each song is very important in the context of the album, and in the end, the murderer repents and finds Jesus. It's a long journey from sin to finding himself and changing his life. He speaks through these characters. There are certain lyrics written for these characters, for example if Satan was a character, there might be a song from Satan's perspective, but then there are other good characters that have other words and messages to tell. It just seems much more thought provoking to me. In the end, people will listen to whatever they want and whatever makes them happy. But yeah, if your looking for Christian music that really gets in depth and could almost be a book...Check out Alice Cooper. He's also a wonderful showman. Very entertaining.
I'll look forward to hearing back from you, xJoe.
I have no desire to listen to music with lyrics rich in meaningless violence. I am not a fan of death metal or hip hop/rap. I feel there are just meaningless swearing/gang violence/etc.. contained in much of the above mentioned genres, just for the sake of it. In the case of Marilyn Manson, I, and many other strong fans (not greatest hits type of people, but fans who actually dig deep and have a further understand and appreciation for the music), find him to be a great intellectual stimulant. Misunderstood? Definately. One example of lyrics, and this is just a song selected at random, but let's examine the song "The Dope Show". I'm aware of some basic history in music and pop culture. And I've heard a lot about the devastated parents who took that song for face value and thought the song was about drugs. IT IS NOT! lol. Manson's enjoys using metaphors and dichotomies. In that particular song, any mention of the word "drug", "dope", etc... is a reference to Hollywood and actors. What is a drug? A substance? Only sometimes. I admire an artist that plays with words to such expertise as Marilyn Manson. In his world, drug is any form of addiction. There are songs with the lyric, "God is in the T.V.". This confuses certain people and it has offended. Well, I believe it's a sarcastic insult to people television obsessed. There are some sad people that do indeed worship their television, living day by day by the time scheduals of their favourite dumb, mindless, junk food shows.
Anyway, I could sit here and go into all kinds of detail, but my main point about the misunderstanding people have is this: People take things too literally. Art is a question mark. Certain lyrics are designed to promote thought. Even if there is no absolute end meaning or message, he wants to challenge his audience. He wants them to question everything. To not be naive. Whether it's religion, science, politics, etc... Don't except it just because it was told to you. Go and do your own research and find out the real truth. Because there is a lot of scams out there. Cults in other forms, not just theologically.
I am not personally aware of any song's the man has written that approve violence. If you could find one in which a literal violent message that was not written to evoke a feeling or an emotion or an idea, I'd be very happy to hear it. But you might have some trouble in finding one. Every single album is a concept piece. He creates characters to tell fictional or non fictional stories. Again, for some reason, people take much of it too seriously and literally. He is simply an entertainer that chooses to teach while entertaining. Some people get the message and others don't. But it beats the mindless, record exec mentality of putting together some talentless pop band with no value or worth. No, I have great respect for bands like Marilyn Manson and Pink Floyd is another one. But I do realize it's not Christian music. But that doesnt mean it should be ran from like a plague. No, that in itself would be weakness and fear. People shouldnt shy away from something. That gives it power over them, as an individual.
One last thing. I don't like a lot of Christian music. Not for any other reason than just... I find it too easy and simple. Like, anyone could come up with these lyrics. Most of it isnt very creative or imaginative to me. If your looking for excellent Christian music, I'd like everyone to seriously look into Alice Cooper. And I'm being serious. He wasnt always Christian. But he was born again a long time ago and the guy is very talented and puts out really brilliant concept pieces. He's another story teller. His last album, "Along Came A Spider" tells the story of a serial killer. Each song is very important in the context of the album, and in the end, the murderer repents and finds Jesus. It's a long journey from sin to finding himself and changing his life. He speaks through these characters. There are certain lyrics written for these characters, for example if Satan was a character, there might be a song from Satan's perspective, but then there are other good characters that have other words and messages to tell. It just seems much more thought provoking to me. In the end, people will listen to whatever they want and whatever makes them happy. But yeah, if your looking for Christian music that really gets in depth and could almost be a book...Check out Alice Cooper. He's also a wonderful showman. Very entertaining.
I'll look forward to hearing back from you, xJoe.
X
xJoe
Guest
Just PM it would be more better or add my messanger
L9mmLjoe@yahoo. or aim.com
or fb me at joe rustum
L9mmLjoe@yahoo. or aim.com
or fb me at joe rustum
K
kayem77
Guest
Well this is is an interesting topic and like almost everyone said, it depends of the content and if it worships God. Actually, if we look at it in an objective way, every song that doesn't worship God is like..... pointless; but don't misunderstand me, I'm not sayin it's evil either(again depending of the content). I can't make a good example cause I'm not actually saved but I have a good and close friend who is saved. Before she was saved she was like a depressed person, and liked to listen punk music and you know...that commercial music that we probably hear everyday. Well, i know her since we were 12, and since a few years ago she's totally changed. I saw how she didn't' even feel interested in commercial music anymore, not saying that is evil, just....pointless, I mean she can enjoy some of that music a time or another, but is like she doesn't enjoy it like before, so when you're in her car you just hear christian cd's( classic,pop,punk,pop/rock,blues and one day I even heard banda lol) .
I'm mentioning that cause It shocked me how she changed in the music subject and probably I can't totally understand it, cause I'm not where she is, but the thing is...I think that when you feel so close to the Holy Spirit , He automatically tells you what is good to hear...or even just take away those interests you have and replace them with the ones that are good for you and for Him, so you automatically know if you're doing good or bad, and it's personal and different for everybody. I'm not saying all music is bad, cause actually I like that commercial music and is what I hear most of the times I won't lie, and other types of music too, but well...they are not for God, and a lot of times just for vain things, but of course you can enjoy yourself sometimes I think, is just that the purpose of music is for showing love to Him.
And bringing another subject here hehe, you would find very shocking how even the most "adorable" song is worshiping Satan in subliminal messages . Go to youtube and put high school musical songs, subliminal messages, YOU'LL BE SORPRISED, and not only them, almost all songs now have those messages,maybe not on purpose inicially, cause the ones that are singing don't know I think, but the people producing the songs are the ones who "convert" the lyrics, I was scared the first time I discovered it lol.
Isaiah 5:12
"They have lyre and harp, tambourine and flute and wine at their feasts, but they do not regard the deeds of the Lord, or see the work of his hands."
Peace
I'm mentioning that cause It shocked me how she changed in the music subject and probably I can't totally understand it, cause I'm not where she is, but the thing is...I think that when you feel so close to the Holy Spirit , He automatically tells you what is good to hear...or even just take away those interests you have and replace them with the ones that are good for you and for Him, so you automatically know if you're doing good or bad, and it's personal and different for everybody. I'm not saying all music is bad, cause actually I like that commercial music and is what I hear most of the times I won't lie, and other types of music too, but well...they are not for God, and a lot of times just for vain things, but of course you can enjoy yourself sometimes I think, is just that the purpose of music is for showing love to Him.
And bringing another subject here hehe, you would find very shocking how even the most "adorable" song is worshiping Satan in subliminal messages . Go to youtube and put high school musical songs, subliminal messages, YOU'LL BE SORPRISED, and not only them, almost all songs now have those messages,maybe not on purpose inicially, cause the ones that are singing don't know I think, but the people producing the songs are the ones who "convert" the lyrics, I was scared the first time I discovered it lol.
Isaiah 5:12
"They have lyre and harp, tambourine and flute and wine at their feasts, but they do not regard the deeds of the Lord, or see the work of his hands."
Peace
what i look for in music is if it is technically structured music-wise, if it is secular music i will only listen to it if it is very hard to play or complex. Now lyrically speaking, the "knowledge" of this world is of no interest to me, I believe any and every secular song lacks a message that will edify the human being. For instance, romantic music will almost make an idol out of a person when in reality a relationship should be based on facts and not feelings. Hip-hop and rap i will not even get into. Secular Death metal i don't need to get into. Mainstream Pop or whatever they call it music shouldn't even be called music, almost anything in the radio is trash. Hmm now that there are artists who use symbolism and metaphors and figurative language to address certain things, yes they might do that, but in the end it doesn't really FEED you or make you a better person or learn anything new, you can find a lot of figurative language in the bible that will actually feed you. Christian music feeds me as a person, it makes my spirit feel Joy and peace, but i don't believe it is the music, it is the spirit by which it was influenced and as a musician i will say no other music does this to me.