Help from Muslims in Koran discussion

[ThomasLady]

There is a discussion currently going on in the Miscellaneous forum, regarding the Koran. It would really help to hear from some Muslims, especially those with historical knowledge regarding the origin and authorship of the Koran.

 

[didymos]

A real muslim doesn't care about historicity, he just cares about tradition. It's (almost always) not allowed to use the methods of bibilical criticism on the Koran. If you want to learn about the history of islam and the origin of the Koran you might aswell ask a christian or an atheist historian for that matter (or google it ).

 

[didymos]

By the way: this is a forum for arab CHRISTIANS, not for muslims.
If you want to get info from muslims visit an islamic site/forum.

 

[leonardronaldo]

There is a discussion currently going on in the Miscellaneous forum, regarding the Koran. It would really help to hear from some Muslims, especially those with historical knowledge regarding the origin and authorship of the Koran.

Help from muslims? lol
Anybody can read any text, including the Koran.

 

[Mammachickadee]

Interesting request. This may be a forum for Arab Christians, but no doubt the non-believing arabs frequent this forum and could possibly give input. God does perform miracles.

 

[ThomasLady]

Please read the top of the screen for this room. It says,
"Arab speaking? Muslim, former Muslim, or from a Muslim country? Join our Arab Christian fellowship!"

So much for fellowship!

 

[leonardronaldo]

Please read the top of the screen for this room. It says,
"Arab speaking? Muslim, former Muslim, or from a Muslim country? Join our Arab Christian fellowship!"

So much for fellowship!

Muslims are welcomed to discuss here, i guess. Just like you, Thomas Lady, are welcomed to discuss here (i supposed you are not a Christian as well)

 

[ThomasLady]

Leonardo, I am a Christian. I am just not afraid to question things and seek the Truth, even if it means turning my views on their head. You can't know everything, so my opinions may often be wrong, but if I keep challenging them, publically or privately, I think I will get closer to the Truth, or Words that approach God.

 

[Bowman]

There is a discussion currently going on in the Miscellaneous forum, regarding the Koran. It would really help to hear from some Muslims, especially those with historical knowledge regarding the origin and authorship of the Koran.

We can gain a significant understanding of what the Koran really is by simply defining the term itself.



Let's review the premise...


القرءان = “alqur-ana”

“alqur-ana” definition:

Proper noun. Originally meaning the Collection; “I collected together the thing” or “I read, or recited, the book or scripture”; and then conventionally applied to signify the Book of God that was revealed to Muhammad; it also signifies the Revelation, meaning that which is termed the mighty, or imitable which is read, or recited, and written in books or volumes. A name for the Book of God, like the book of the Law revealed to Moses and the Gospel.

قرءان is so called because it has collected the histories of the prophets, and commands and prohibitions, and promises and threats, and the verses or signs, and the chapters.

It comes from the root “qara’a”, which has the primary signification he collected together the thing; put it, or drew it, together; part to part, or portion to portion. He read, or recited, the scripture chanting; he read or recited anything in any manner, without, or from, or in a book.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume seven, pp. 2502 - 2504
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, pp. 448 - 449



The classic Arabic definition is really quite revealing.

We have the following proclaimed regarding the original meaning applied to the Koran:

• It’s a collection
• A collection of books or scriptures

Whether this collection is read or recited, it still suggests that it emanates from a collected repository of things already written down.

It was only later that the meaning changed to signify the Book of God that was revealed to “Muhammad”…and we already understand that the “Muhammad” spoken of in the Koran is actually the Biblical Jesus Christ.

Thus, the Koran is Jesus’ book!

This would account for the scores of suras that are titled after Him, and revolve around Him.

“Alqur-ana” also means Revelation – which is most appropriate, as >75% of the Koran is directly copied from the Book of Revelation.

The root “qara’a” takes us one step deeper with the primary definition “he collected together the thing; put it, or drew it, together; part to part, or portion to portion."

This gives us great insight as to why the Koran was written in the fashion that it was – as the authors who pieced it together and performed the translation, actually did so piecemeal. These pieces, taken in large part from the Book of Revelation, are actually the paraphrased Arabic counterparts to the Holy Bible, known as suras.

 

[leonardronaldo]

Leonardo, I am a Christian. I am just not afraid to question things and seek the Truth, even if it means turning my views on their head. You can't know everything, so my opinions may often be wrong, but if I keep challenging them, publically or privately, I think I will get closer to the Truth, or Words that approach God.

You state in your profile that you are unsure. So that's why I supposed you were not.
Anyway, a Christian will try to be mastered by the Word, not the other way around.

May the Lord's grace be upon us all

 

[didymos]

Leonardo, I am a Christian. I am just not afraid to question things and seek the Truth, even if it means turning my views on their head. You can't know everything, so my opinions may often be wrong, but if I keep challenging them, publically or privately, I think I will get closer to the Truth, or Words that approach God.

So you're trying to start up the same discussion all over again, but now in a different forum. Hey... we already know you're interested in islam and read the 'Koran.' Good for you, but that's not where you will find the 'Truth,' you as a christian should know that.

(John 14:6)

 

[T_Laurich]

Leonardo, I am a Christian. I am just not afraid to question things and seek the Truth, even if it means turning my views on their head. You can't know everything, so my opinions may often be wrong, but if I keep challenging them, publically or privately, I think I will get closer to the Truth, or Words that approach God.

So you're trying to start up the same discussion all over again, but now in a different forum. Hey... we already know you're interested in islam and read the 'Koran.' Good for you, but that's not where you will find the 'Truth,' you as a christian should know that.

(John 14:6)

Personally I think he believes in the 'Islamic' faith... The way he talks about truth is inferring it doesn't exist in the Bible so he had to search else where to find it... He explains as if he has been a believer in Christ but "Truth" set him free... He insinuates for people to read another book to find the "Truth, or Words that approach God."

 

[ThomasLady]

Didymos, if you are asking the question "why?", I came on this site to ask a Muslim to help with the discussion happening on the other forum. A former Muslim was able to answer a question I had and I am grateful.

I think a good Christian (even the kind like me that's unsure whether my beliefs qualify) is bound to search for wisdom to aid in the formation and grounding of my religious beliefs beyond the bible. I think this disagrees with many Christians, but I am OK with that.

God's Will Be Done

 

[T_Laurich]

I think a good Christian (even the kind like me that's unsure whether my beliefs qualify)

But that is the thing... You are either a Christian or not... You can not be a 'good' or better Christian... The thing that saves us is our faith not our works... We are all sinners...

There is no levels or progression in the Christian faith in the sense of worldliness... A pastor is just as good as a Christian as someone who is an orphan in Nigeria... The word Christian means follower of Christ...

You don't go from being a bad christian to an okay one to a good one... You are either all in or not... Which is kinda scary to put our eggs all in one basket but Christ calls us to do so...

 

[ThomasLady]

But according to that statement T_Laurich, St. Augustine, one of the great defenders and founders of Christianity, is not a Christian. He found the bible to be somewhat confusing and was aided in his beliefs by Greek philosophers. Read his Confessions. This question is not that cut and dry.

 

[T_Laurich]

But according to that statement T_Laurich, St. Augustine, one of the great defenders and founders of Christianity, is not a Christian. He found the bible to be somewhat confusing and was aided in his beliefs by Greek philosophers. Read his Confessions. This question is not that cut and dry.

Just because someone is honored and glorified by man does not make them a follower of Christ... I have never researched St. Augustine...even if i did, I am not one to judge his faith!!! But to my knowledge he is not a 'founder' of Christianity... If any man is a founder apart from Christ himself it would be his apostles...

 

[didymos]

(...)
I think a good Christian (even the kind like me that's unsure whether my beliefs qualify) is bound to search for wisdom to aid in the formation and grounding of my religious beliefs beyond the bible. I think this disagrees with many Christians, but I am OK with that.

God's Will Be Done

So what is 'Truth' then, according to you?

Maybe you should study the theology of religions first before you decide to 'step outside the box.'

 

[ThomasLady]

Reading the writings of St. Augustine is outside the box didymos? Certainly not the case.

Truth in some way is God. It is things as they truly are, not as our mind conceives them in Earth...if you want it in a sentence. But as T_Laurich may point out, this too brief answer will be full of contradictions with my past comments on this site (Just kidding T_Laurich). Anyway didymos, point is that I think God wants us to pursue knowledge/truth outside the Bible, a collection of translated works put together by infallible humans, but I understand very well that some passionately disagree with me on this.

 

[didymos]

Reading the writings of St. Augustine is outside the box didymos? Certainly not the case.

Truth in some way is God. It is things as they truly are, not as our mind conceives them in Earth...if you want it in a sentence. But as T_Laurich may point out, this too brief answer will be full of contradictions with my past comments on this site (Just kidding T_Laurich). Anyway didymos, point is that I think God wants us to pursue knowledge/truth outside the Bible, a collection of translated works put together by infallible humans, but I understand very well that some passionately disagree with me on this.

No, thinking that the 'Truth' is to be found outside Christ is 'thinking outside the box.'

 

[ThomasLady]

In you opinion, but not in the opinion of many other people that believe in Jesus special connection with God