Eternal punishment in hell for the wicked?

[kinda]

So, sort of. a gloomy subject, but I think it's worth discussing, since it's possible that it may be misunderstood. Is hell a place where the unbelievers burn every day for eternity, or something that is quick and remains until eternity?

Personally, I think Hell isn't eternal punishment every day for the wicked, but is more of like a burnt log, where the log turns to ash after it burns.
So maybe we can all share our thoughts, without getting bent out of shape?!?!

Discuss

Malachi 4:1-3
The Great Day of God
4 “For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“That will leave them neither root nor branch.

2 But to you who fear My name
The Sun of Righteousness shall arise
With healing in His wings;
And you shall go out
And grow fat like stall-fed calves.

3 You shall trample the wicked,
For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,”
Says the Lord of hosts.

Jude 1

7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the [d]vengeance of eternal fire.

2nd Peter 2:6

6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;

Matthew 25
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:


46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

[Brasspen]

In the book of revelations, the devil is cast into the lake of fire. The cries from he's torment rise up to the thrown room of God, 'forever and ever and ever, as a sweet smelling savor.'

The false prophets of the devil will also be thrown into the lake of fire with him.

Jesus has said, the fire will never be quenched. And there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Jesus said, They will never have any rest.

 

[Brasspen]

Also, Jesus said it will be by the works that people will be judged, in the day of judgement. So if their works are evil, then evil judgement will happen.

I believe because Jesus said it will be by our works we are judged, I think this could mean some people might have forgiveness, in the life to come.

 

[Suze]

Death is the judgement , ' the soul that sinneth shall die ' . That's all of us , our punishment for sin is death . How can a person , a non Christian , die because they sinned yet , still b alive for eternity in a place of punishment ? That's a massive contradiction don't u think ? Is God lying when He says the soul that sinneth shall die ? I don't think so do u ? God doesn't tell lies .

 

[Suze]

In the book of revelations, the devil is cast into the lake of fire. The cries from he's torment rise up to the thrown room of God, 'forever and ever and ever, as a sweet smelling savor.'

The false prophets of the devil will also be thrown into the lake of fire with him.

Jesus has said, the fire will never be quenched. And there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Jesus said, They will never have any rest.

Yes it does say that but , when will that happen ?

 

[Suze]

The lake of fire cannot b what many Christians think of as hell , a place of eternal punishment unless , there is an end to hell because ; Revelation Ch 20 v 7 - 15 , take special notice of v 14 but keep everything in context .

 

[Suze]

It can b confusing I grant u that it seems to me as if , Revelation Ch 20 , V 13 may occur before V 12 , so they would read ; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it ; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them : and they were judged every man according to their works .
And I saw the dead , small and great , stand before God ; and the books were opened : and another book was opened , which is the book of life : and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books , according to their works .
Chronologically that makes a bit more sense , that happens sometimes , things seem to b out of chronological order , I'm thinking of the signs of the times in the Gospels also .
The people in ' death ' ( verse 13 ) could b the dead in Christ , Christians asleep waiting for Jesus return and the people in ' hell ' ( also verse 13 ) could b those that have died without any Christian faith , either because they rejected Christ or because they never even heard of him ?

 

[Suze]

We read in Revelation Ch 20 verse 9 that , fire came down from God and devoured them ( Satan from verse 7 and Gog and Magog from verse 8 ) , could these 3 b the devil the beast and the false prophet ? those that follow on in verse 10 and r cast into the lake of fire ? the lake of fire that was created when God in verse 9 , cast down fire which devoured them ? Just my thoughts , what do u think ?

 

[GWH]

So, sort of. a gloomy subject, but I think it's worth discussing, since it's possible that it may be misunderstood. Is hell a place where the unbelievers burn every day for eternity, or something that is quick and remains until eternity?

Personally, I think Hell isn't eternal punishment every day for the wicked, but is more of like a burnt log, where the log turns to ash after it burns.
So maybe we can all share our thoughts, without getting bent out of shape?!?!

Discuss

Malachi 4:1-3
The Great Day of God
4 “For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“That will leave them neither root nor branch.

2 But to you who fear My name
The Sun of Righteousness shall arise
With healing in His wings;
And you shall go out
And grow fat like stall-fed calves.

3 You shall trample the wicked,
For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,”
Says the Lord of hosts.

Jude 1

7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the [d]vengeance of eternal fire.

2nd Peter 2:6

6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;

Matthew 25
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:


46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

I agree with your view and like your analogy derived from Mal. 4:1-3.
The key to understanding hell is keeping in mind that it is when ultimate justice is achieved.
I explain it as follows:

Hell is the just consequence for choosing evil rather than God. The Spirit of God is good: love, peace and joy (Gal. 5:22-23). Therefore, whoever rejects the Lord is spiritually separated from Him (Isa. 59:2) and thereby chooses the evil or satanic spirit of hatred, strife and misery and reaps the just consequence called “hell” in the afterlife (Gal. 6:7-9, Heb. 9:27-28). These options were presented by Moses to the Israelites (DT 30:19), and Jesus referred to this fundamental choice in terms of a fish or egg versus a snake or scorpion (Luke 11:11-13).

Evil people grieve God and punish/torture themselves by experiencing delayed karma, just as those who experience appropriate justice during this earthly existence also punish themselves or reap what they have sown and send themselves to jail. This view makes souls responsible for breaking the rules rather than blaming evil on the judges (or Judge) who enforce the rules.

The purpose of earthly punishment is to promote repentance, but the reason for retribution in hell is to attain justice. It is difficult to imagine, but somehow even someone as evil as Hitler will receive perfect justice, perhaps experiencing the agony of the millions of deaths he caused in accordance with the principal of “eye for eye” (MT 5:38), after which their souls are destroyed forever (per John 17:12, Rom. 9:22, Gal. 6:8, Phil. 3:19, 2Thes. 1:9, 2Pet. 3:7 & Rev. 20:13-14).

 

[Gideon300]

Also, Jesus said it will be by the works that people will be judged, in the day of judgement. So if their works are evil, then evil judgement will happen.

I believe because Jesus said it will be by our works we are judged, I think this could mean some people might have forgiveness, in the life to come.

God's primary judgement is either you are alive in Christ or not. Those who are alive are judged in what amounts to an awards ceremony. Each believer is rewarded according to his/her (spiritual) works.

The unbeliever appears before the Great White Throne judgement. He is spiritually dead. God will punish the unbeliever according to his/her works also. There is a place called the outer darkness, which implies that there is degrees of judgement. What ever that means, it will not be good. The rich man and Lazarus account should make all unbelievers tremble. But they love their sin and prefer to gamble with their eternal destiny.

There is something called the second death. No unbeliever escapes it.

 

[timf]

If we take a more accurate look, we can see Hades / Sheol as the place of the dead. In Ezekiel there are references to some uncircumcised in Hades that do not seem to be in as much torment as the rich man of Luke 16. However Lazarus seemed to be at rest.

There is much we do not know. For example is eternity the end of time or time unending? Is punishment eternal the same thing as eternal punishing? If eternal life is the gift of God why would the unsaved get it. What are the unsaved called those who are perishing. What is the "second death" of revelation.

I think a case can be made for some sort of annihilation of the lost. If they are to be punished for what they did to make payment, what was insufficient in the death of Christ?

 

[GWH]

If we take a more accurate look, we can see Hades / Sheol as the place of the dead. In Ezekiel there are references to some uncircumcised in Hades that do not seem to be in as much torment as the rich man of Luke 16. However Lazarus seemed to be at rest.

There is much we do not know. For example is eternity the end of time or time unending? Is punishment eternal the same thing as eternal punishing? If eternal life is the gift of God why would the unsaved get it. What are the unsaved called those who are perishing. What is the "second death" of revelation.

I think a case can be made for some sort of annihilation of the lost. If they are to be punished for what they did to make payment, what was insufficient in the death of Christ?

Yes, annihilation = destruction of lost souls--after justice is achieved.

 

[Melach]

So, sort of. a gloomy subject, but I think it's worth discussing, since it's possible that it may be misunderstood. Is hell a place where the unbelievers burn every day for eternity, or something that is quick and remains until eternity?

Personally, I think Hell isn't eternal punishment every day for the wicked, but is more of like a burnt log, where the log turns to ash after it burns.
So maybe we can all share our thoughts, without getting bent out of shape?!?!

Discuss

Malachi 4:1-3
The Great Day of God
4 “For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“That will leave them neither root nor branch.

2 But to you who fear My name
The Sun of Righteousness shall arise
With healing in His wings;
And you shall go out
And grow fat like stall-fed calves.

3 You shall trample the wicked,
For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,”
Says the Lord of hosts.

Jude 1

7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the [d]vengeance of eternal fire.

2nd Peter 2:6

6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;

Matthew 25
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:


46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

annihilationism falls flat on its face because all the proof texts they use from psalms and malachi is talking about wicked people simply dying. there is nothing about the afterlife in those verses, its just simply bodies dying.

if you want to find out about what happens after they physically die, you can read the story of rich man and lazarus, 2 thessalonians 1:6-9, revelation 20:11-15, revelation 14:11ff, daniel 12:2 and what Jesus Himself says about there being weeping and gnashing of teeth.

case closed. the proof texts annihilationists use are referring to the death of the body, the other verses they have to explain away

 

[GWH]

annihilationism falls flat on its face because all the proof texts they use from psalms and malachi is talking about wicked people simply dying. there is nothing about the afterlife in those verses, its just simply bodies dying.

if you want to find out about what happens after they physically die, you can read the story of rich man and lazarus, 2 thessalonians 1:6-9, revelation 20:11-15, revelation 14:11ff, daniel 12:2 and what Jesus Himself says about there being weeping and gnashing of teeth.

case closed. the proof texts annihilationists use are referring to the death of the body, the other verses they have to explain away

No, any argument or interpretation that portrays God as unjust falls flat, because God is just.
However, if you have a way of refuting my understanding of GW in post #9 without impugning God's righteousness,
please share it by all means.

 

[tourist]

So, sort of. a gloomy subject, but I think it's worth discussing, since it's possible that it may be misunderstood. Is hell a place where the unbelievers burn every day for eternity, or something that is quick and remains until eternity?

Personally, I think Hell isn't eternal punishment every day for the wicked, but is more of like a burnt log, where the log turns to ash after it burns.
So maybe we can all share our thoughts, without getting bent out of shape?!?!

Discuss

Malachi 4:1-3
The Great Day of God
4 “For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“That will leave them neither root nor branch.

2 But to you who fear My name
The Sun of Righteousness shall arise
With healing in His wings;
And you shall go out
And grow fat like stall-fed calves.

3 You shall trample the wicked,
For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,”
Says the Lord of hosts.

Jude 1

7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the [d]vengeance of eternal fire.

2nd Peter 2:6

6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;

Matthew 25
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:


46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

I agree with your estimation about the attributes of hell. Regardless, that is not something that you would not want to happen to you, me, and everyone else.

 

[Suze]

annihilationism falls flat on its face because all the proof texts they use from psalms and malachi is talking about wicked people simply dying. there is nothing about the afterlife in those verses, its just simply bodies dying.

if you want to find out about what happens after they physically die, you can read the story of rich man and lazarus, 2 thessalonians 1:6-9, revelation 20:11-15, revelation 14:11ff, daniel 12:2 and what Jesus Himself says about there being weeping and gnashing of teeth.

case closed. the proof texts annihilationists use are referring to the death of the body, the other verses they have to explain away

I take your point but have always thought of the Lazarus story as just that , a parable to illustrate a point . I think the confusion comes with the phrase that the rich man ' lifted up his eyes ' . It's apparently a well known Jewish idiom and , it's used many times in the Bible and refers to people scanning the horizon , even God Himself instructs Abraham to do it and it's not to do with looking up into heaven .

 

[Suze]

The more I think of it , the more it seems to me that the parable of Lazarus is to do with God's Kingdom on Earth and Christ's millennial reign . God uses that exact same phrase ' lift up your eyes ' to Abraham , He is showing Abraham the land that he and his offspring will posses forever . God's Kingdom will start in Israel , specifically Jerusalem , before the whole earth is filled with the glory of the LORD . So , the parable of Lazarus is showing that Lazarus , along with Abraham will b in God's kingdom and the rich man will not be . Again , just a train of thought .

 

[Melach]

The more I think of it , the more it seems to me that the parable of Lazarus is to do with God's Kingdom on Earth and Christ's millennial reign . God uses that exact same phrase ' lift up your eyes ' to Abraham , He is showing Abraham the land that he and his offspring will posses forever . God's Kingdom will start in Israel , specifically Jerusalem , before the whole earth is filled with the glory of the LORD . So , the parable of Lazarus is showing that Lazarus , along with Abraham will b in God's kingdom and the rich man will not be . Again , just a train of thought .

my opinion is the kingdom already began in Jerusalem. like that small mustard seed, and now its growing and has filled the entire earth.

 

[kinda]

I will just say, that either way is possible. I think there is room for both views, but I'm not entirely certain. I lean for the end of the wicked and not eternal pain and misery. That is beyond what I could possibly could imagine. Just so sad, if that's true.

Just think 20 trillion years from now, that is just really the beginning of the pain for the wicked?!?! They stiff have eternity to go. I will say, I don't know for sure, but pray for mercy for the lost.

 

[kinda]

Mark 5

6 When he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshiped Him. 7 And he cried out with a loud voice and said, “What have I to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore[c] You by God that You do not torment me.”

8 For He said to him, “Come out of the man, unclean spirit!” 9 Then He asked him, “What is your name?”

And he answered, saying, “My name is Legion; for we are many.” 10 Also he begged Him earnestly that He would not send them out of the country.


Luke 8

28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, fell down before Him, and with a loud voice said, “What have I to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You, do not torment me!” 29 For He had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man.