Controversial or finally the truth?

[pinebeach]

Posting this in misc rather than the BDF as it is about the revealing (finally) of certain so called prophets and churches that have damaged thousands of people. While I was not personally involved in any of those being mentionned, I was involved in a 'ministry' that damaged thousands and was deceived and had my life forever scarred. I have had to pay a big price for the knowledge of this type of thing and a person can only warn others and pray their desire for God outweighs their desire for 'goosebumps' and 'signs and wonders'

That being said, I grew up in a gospel centered church with no so called signs and wonders but a good foundation in scripture with regards to the gospel and I thank God for it in the end, because I would have been utterly ruined, rather than just damaged, if I have been exposed to the circus that passes for so much of charismatic and pentecostal goings on at a young age. I was saved at 5 but introduced to the unbiblical goings on of false prophets, teachers, pastors etc at the age of 20. Sometimes I think I know things I would rather not know and would rather have not seen some things I have seen. But, from those things I have developed a keen sense of what is and what is not of God.

I am not dumping on all charismatics or pentecostals; I believe the gifts are still for today, but the abuse is horrible and terminal for some.

Enough about me though. I am not a part of any ministry or website that 'exposes' those they think are false. There are some very prejudicial accusations on most of those anyway. I am only about trying to help others (and I have in some cases) and concerned about believers whose dedication to Christ has been abused by false leaders.

I just came across a video on youtube that is over 5 hrs. long and I will watch the entire thing because it is of personal interest but no worries, no one is obligated to do the same or even watch it all. A few yearsw back, in this forum, there was alot of discussion about certain churches, such as Bethel in CA and IHOP ministry and a few others. This video does contain exposure of the cultish goings on in some of these places and frankly, the utter demonic practices of IHOP (which is no longer hurting sincere believers) and the practices of homosexuality and abuse of young women by men who were respected and looked up to and each one of them believed to be a 'prophet.

I pray anyone still caught up in any of the above mentionned, will give serious thought to continuing in the practice of 'personal revelation' or messages from a 'prophets' that supposedly come from God to an individual.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Posting this in misc rather than the BDF as it is about the revealing (finally) of certain so called prophets and churches that have damaged thousands of people. While I was not personally involved in any of those being mentionned, I was involved in a 'ministry' that damaged thousands and was deceived and had my life forever scarred. I have had to pay a big price for the knowledge of this type of thing and a person can only warn others and pray their desire for God outweighs their desire for 'goosebumps' and 'signs and wonders'

That being said, I grew up in a gospel centered church with no so called signs and wonders but a good foundation in scripture with regards to the gospel and I thank God for it in the end, because I would have been utterly ruined, rather than just damaged, if I have been exposed to the circus that passes for so much of charismatic and pentecostal goings on at a young age. I was saved at 5 but introduced to the unbiblical goings on of false prophets, teachers, pastors etc at the age of 20. Sometimes I think I know things I would rather not know and would rather have not seen some things I have seen. But, from those things I have developed a keen sense of what is and what is not of God.

I am not dumping on all charismatics or pentecostals; I believe the gifts are still for today, but the abuse is horrible and terminal for some.

Enough about me though. I am not a part of any ministry or website that 'exposes' those they think are false. There are some very prejudicial accusations on most of those anyway. I am only about trying to help others (and I have in some cases) and concerned about believers whose dedication to Christ has been abused by false leaders.

I just came across a video on youtube that is over 5 hrs. long and I will watch the entire thing because it is of personal interest but no worries, no one is obligated to do the same or even watch it all. A few yearsw back, in this forum, there was alot of discussion about certain churches, such as Bethel in CA and IHOP ministry and a few others. This video does contain exposure of the cultish goings on in some of these places and frankly, the utter demonic practices of IHOP (which is no longer hurting sincere believers) and the practices of homosexuality and abuse of young women by men who were respected and looked up to and each one of them believed to be a 'prophet.

I pray anyone still caught up in any of the above mentionned, will give serious thought to continuing in the practice of 'personal revelation' or messages from a 'prophets' that supposedly come from God to an individual.

I don't mean to make fun of a serious post but when I saw "IHOP Ministry" I thought " the pancake restaurant has a ministry"? I had to Google it. rofl I didn't have to admit I'm that dumb, but I laughed at my own stupidity and had to post it. I will take a look at that video when I get the time.

 

[pinebeach]

I don't mean to make fun of a serious post but when I saw "IHOP Ministry" I thought " the pancake restaurant has a ministry"? I had to Google it. rofl I didn't have to admit I'm that dumb, but I laughed at my own stupidity and had to post it. I will take a look at that video when I get the time.

Understandable. The menu was a little different though.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Posting this in misc rather than the BDF as it is about the revealing (finally) of certain so called prophets and churches that have damaged thousands of people. While I was not personally involved in any of those being mentionned, I was involved in a 'ministry' that damaged thousands and was deceived and had my life forever scarred. I have had to pay a big price for the knowledge of this type of thing and a person can only warn others and pray their desire for God outweighs their desire for 'goosebumps' and 'signs and wonders'

That being said, I grew up in a gospel centered church with no so called signs and wonders but a good foundation in scripture with regards to the gospel and I thank God for it in the end, because I would have been utterly ruined, rather than just damaged, if I have been exposed to the circus that passes for so much of charismatic and pentecostal goings on at a young age. I was saved at 5 but introduced to the unbiblical goings on of false prophets, teachers, pastors etc at the age of 20. Sometimes I think I know things I would rather not know and would rather have not seen some things I have seen. But, from those things I have developed a keen sense of what is and what is not of God.

I am not dumping on all charismatics or pentecostals; I believe the gifts are still for today, but the abuse is horrible and terminal for some.

Enough about me though. I am not a part of any ministry or website that 'exposes' those they think are false. There are some very prejudicial accusations on most of those anyway. I am only about trying to help others (and I have in some cases) and concerned about believers whose dedication to Christ has been abused by false leaders.

I just came across a video on youtube that is over 5 hrs. long and I will watch the entire thing because it is of personal interest but no worries, no one is obligated to do the same or even watch it all. A few yearsw back, in this forum, there was alot of discussion about certain churches, such as Bethel in CA and IHOP ministry and a few others. This video does contain exposure of the cultish goings on in some of these places and frankly, the utter demonic practices of IHOP (which is no longer hurting sincere believers) and the practices of homosexuality and abuse of young women by men who were respected and looked up to and each one of them believed to be a 'prophet.

I pray anyone still caught up in any of the above mentionned, will give serious thought to continuing in the practice of 'personal revelation' or messages from a 'prophets' that supposedly come from God to an individual.

I just found out about this video today before I saw your post. It features all the usual suspects who have been outed as false teachers for years. Hopefully it might help someone who is new to this subject.

I'm not as charitable when it come to the "gifts" being active today. I'm skeptical of anyone who claims to have power to perform miracles. Some are just better frauds than others.

 

[JaumeJ]

Sometimes when a believing person avails himself or herself, the Holy Spirit will move on the person, and they are made a server of the Lord. There are also instances where a person will ask and receive a deed from the Father. It is a wonderful privilege to be used such, unforgettable.

 

[Lynx]

Posting this in misc rather than the BDF as it is about the revealing (finally) of certain so called prophets and churches that have damaged thousands of people. While I was not personally involved in any of those being mentionned, I was involved in a 'ministry' that damaged thousands and was deceived and had my life forever scarred. I have had to pay a big price for the knowledge of this type of thing and a person can only warn others and pray their desire for God outweighs their desire for 'goosebumps' and 'signs and wonders'

That being said, I grew up in a gospel centered church with no so called signs and wonders but a good foundation in scripture with regards to the gospel and I thank God for it in the end, because I would have been utterly ruined, rather than just damaged, if I have been exposed to the circus that passes for so much of charismatic and pentecostal goings on at a young age. I was saved at 5 but introduced to the unbiblical goings on of false prophets, teachers, pastors etc at the age of 20. Sometimes I think I know things I would rather not know and would rather have not seen some things I have seen. But, from those things I have developed a keen sense of what is and what is not of God.

I am not dumping on all charismatics or pentecostals; I believe the gifts are still for today, but the abuse is horrible and terminal for some.

Enough about me though. I am not a part of any ministry or website that 'exposes' those they think are false. There are some very prejudicial accusations on most of those anyway. I am only about trying to help others (and I have in some cases) and concerned about believers whose dedication to Christ has been abused by false leaders.

I just came across a video on youtube that is over 5 hrs. long and I will watch the entire thing because it is of personal interest but no worries, no one is obligated to do the same or even watch it all. A few yearsw back, in this forum, there was alot of discussion about certain churches, such as Bethel in CA and IHOP ministry and a few others. This video does contain exposure of the cultish goings on in some of these places and frankly, the utter demonic practices of IHOP (which is no longer hurting sincere believers) and the practices of homosexuality and abuse of young women by men who were respected and looked up to and each one of them believed to be a 'prophet.

I pray anyone still caught up in any of the above mentionned, will give serious thought to continuing in the practice of 'personal revelation' or messages from a 'prophets' that supposedly come from God to an individual.

After all these millenia, pride is still the original sin, and the root cause of so much damage. From the singer who gets upset because he didn't get the solo part, to the one who thinks it is beneath her to clean the church toilets, to the visiting preacher who has turned his act of service into a big show, pride can sneak into every part of a church and ruin the good work the church should be doing.

God will sort it out in the end though. The Bible is pretty clear on that. Everything will be known - not only what was done, but why it was done.

 

[pinebeach]

I just found out about this video today before I saw your post. It features all the usual suspects who have been outed as false teachers for years. Hopefully it might help someone who is new to this subject.

I'm not as charitable when it come to the "gifts" being active today. I'm skeptical of anyone who claims to have power to perform miracles. Some are just better frauds than others.

Yes well people do not actually have the power to perform miracles, so there's that. However I have seen a few things that I know were out of the ordinary...seen, not performed. The thing about these 'leaders' is that they KNEW that Shaun was a total fake and did nothing about it. They deleted info about him and got rid of pics and videos. No responsibility and they will be held accountable.

People have turned away from God because of these shysters and I did myself and it took alot until I turned around again. My involvement was with another 'ministry' though and not mentionned in this video. There is a follow up video that I will post most likely; a response from a couple of people who were in the position to warn people but they did not. There is really no excuse for that. IMO, that's practically criminal and certainly before God it's criminal.

I know about your stand on the gifts and who can blame you, but I have a different experience. that's fine. Discernment is something that so many just forget about and then they become ensnared. I had never even heard about such a thing as discernement at the time, but that goes out the window in these places.

Thanks

 

[pinebeach]

Sometimes when a believing person avails himself or herself, the Holy Spirit will move on the person, and they are made a server of the Lord. There are also instances where a person will ask and receive a deed from the Father. It is a wonderful privilege to be used such, unforgettable.

That is not what this video is about. Did you take a look at it? I have been 'used' myself but this video is about the fakirs that have hurt so many. I'm not going to get into personal experience in the sense of what a person believes or thinks God has done through them...I believe such things are and can be true.

BUT for those who believe the prophecies of evil fakes, there can be terrible consequences and that is what concerns this video and concerns myself as well as I full well know what can happen

 

[ResidentAlien]

Yes well people do not actually have the power to perform miracles, so there's that.

They don't have that power unless it's given to them by the Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:7-11 teaches that the Holy Spirit gives people certain gifts for the edification of the body. Verse 10 says: "to another the working of miracles." A lot of people claim they have various gifts given them by the Holy Spirit when they don't actually have a gift at all.

 

[JaumeJ]

That is not what this video is about. Did you take a look at it? I have been 'used' myself but this video is about the fakirs that have hurt so many. I'm not going to get into personal experience in the sense of what a person believes or thinks God has done through them...I believe such things are and can be true.

BUT for those who believe the prophecies of evil fakes, there can be terrible consequences and that is what concerns this video and concerns myself as well as I full well know what can happen

Sorry, I was elaborating on what I had just read in this thread. I have the video bookmarked, but I have not looked into it as yet. God bless you.

 

[Underd0g]

Thank you for this thread, it's the main reason I joined here.

I was in The Agape Force in 1978 at the same time as Georgian Banov. (Mentioned in the video.)
The Agape Force was a street ministry based in Texas. Georgian was a musician in the groups Candle and Silverwind. Candle created the albums "Music Machine" and "Bulfrogs and Butterflies" with Barry McGuire.
After six weeks of classes, we were given the option of signing on for either one or five years, with the stress being on five years. I don't know anybody who knows what they'll want in five years, so luckily, I signed up for one. Some of my fellow students quit before their obligation was up, and it wrecked their psyches.

So there were nine more weeks of training, and then we went out in vans to conquer the world for Jesus. We raised our own financial support.

The mobile teams took the children's records and sold them door to door for donations.
What it boiled down to for me was 15 weeks of training, 3 weeks of ministry, and 40 weeks of door-to-door raising funds or working on their ranch... for no pay or any consideration.

I wasn't the quiet type, and they knew I had issues, but I wasn't going to quit before my contract said. I knew what my fellow students went through emotionally and spiritually. I wasn't going to have that hanging over my head for the rest of my life. My vow was to God, not them.

As my deadline drew near, I learned that my brother was preparing to have me kidnapped and deprogrammed if I didn't leave after my time was up. It felt like I was in a movie. February 13th, 1979, they put me on a bus home. I can't remember where in the country I was. I was just so relieved.

The teachings seemed fine, even looking back. But since 1979, the teachings evolved. Charismatic teachings were in their infancy back then. People were simply enthralled with the idea that God might relate to them personally without a priest to be an intermediary. The Catholics took quite the hit during this time. The false teachings snowballed after I left The Force. The organization is defunct now, amidst gossip and innuendo that I can't confirm.


When I got home, my parents were steeped in the Charismatic movement. They started with Charles and Francis Hunter, "The Happy Hunters", and Jim and Tammy Faye, of course. I ran into the Happy Hunters on the road with The Force, and they were disgusting. They passed out Kentucky Fried Chicken buckets to pull in the cash for their 'healing ministry" while parents of children with cerebral palsy waited expectantly for their healing. I remember circus music. I cried and regretted it because I was afraid people thought I was getting blessed. This definitely played into my dissent.

I rejected the Charismatic movement but was immersed in it anyway because of my family.
It went from tongues and interpretation, to words of knowledge, to prophecies, to finally supernatural gold teeth. I thought my mother would be able to see through such a blatant false miracle. My wife and I investigated and found that one woman's dentist told her that he put that gold tooth there. The other dentist told another recipient that it wasn't gold. It was stained. She refused to believe the dentist. My mother couldn't leave her friends in her ministry, so she said it wasn't important. This was sponsored by an organization called Women Aglow.

I have too many anecdotes to share here at one time. As I get to know each of you, I'm willing to tell them.


.

 

[pinebeach]

Glad to have you here. I think people are starting to speak up more and more about the abuse, spiritual, emotional and even physical sometimes. Even only 10 yrs ago, if you would say anything contrary to the 'great move of the Holy Spirit', you were quenching the spirit (notice the little s here cause it was not holy) or maybe not saved or trying to harm 'great men of God'. Sadly, there are legitimate spiritual gifts and so on, but after experiencing so much fake and harmful, so many people don't want anything to do with anything beyond their own 4 walls.

My vow was to God, not them.

And they are counting on that. Who wants a guilty conscience? Right? It's manipulation and of course, not God at all

They started with Charles and Francis Hunter,

I remember them because my mother was all enthused about them. My mother became increaseingly enthused about things that made you a little scared actually

My wife and I investigated and found that one woman's dentist told her that he put that gold tooth there. The other dentist told another recipient that it wasn't gold. It was stained. She refused to believe the dentist. My mother couldn't leave her friends in her ministry, so she said it wasn't important. This was sponsored by an organization called Women Aglow.

I remember the gold teeth and other stuff and I also remember a church member standing up in church and apologizing for bringing false stories home and encouraging people to go after 'miracles' rather than Jesus. I remember the women aglow stuff but only in hearing about it.

I had already had my own experience and was, by then, super reticent to call anything 'of God, from God or all the God told me to tell you stuff.'

 

[pinebeach]

After all these millenia, pride is still the original sin, and the root cause of so much damage. From the singer who gets upset because he didn't get the solo part, to the one who thinks it is beneath her to clean the church toilets, to the visiting preacher who has turned his act of service into a big show, pride can sneak into every part of a church and ruin the good work the church should be doing.

God will sort it out in the end though. The Bible is pretty clear on that. Everything will be known - not only what was done, but why it was done.

Been going on since Jesus walked with His disciples. Pride & Jealousy. Twins of evil.

And yes God will sort it all out. Thanks

 

[Underd0g]

Glad to have you here. I think people are starting to speak up more and more about the abuse, spiritual, emotional and even physical sometimes. Even only 10 yrs ago, if you would say anything contrary to the 'great move of the Holy Spirit', you were quenching the spirit (notice the little s here cause it was not holy) or maybe not saved or trying to harm 'great men of God'. Sadly, there are legitimate spiritual gifts and so on, but after experiencing so much fake and harmful, so many people don't want anything to do with anything beyond their own 4 walls.
'

Thank you for that.
I have theories about how to bring much-needed healing to the church.

1) First and foremost, that leadership wouldn't stigmatize whistleblowing and dissent.
Notice I didn't say gossip and backbiting.

2) Ban the expression, "There is no such thing as a perfect church."
This is an excuse for sin and the responsibility to confront it.
Yeah, the church is a hospital for sinners. It's where they get staph infections and die.

3) Expand Matthew 18: 15-20 to include interchurch relationships. I did my best to resolve conflicts with my brother, who went to a different church, but I was rejected. I followed the most gentle of protocols. I know someone is hiding something if he won't meet with his pastor in a conflict.

4) Require all legitimate questions be answered and issues be addressed publicly when necessary. This, I would think, is self-explanatory. The resolution of almost every argument I've had has been thwarted by the muddying of waters and obfuscation.
When both parties are forthright, the subject matter doesn't get lost in the trivial.
Trust the congregation to decide if a grievance is simply based on selfishness or mental illness.

Young people are deconstructing the Bible and turning their backs on God in droves, and it isn't necessary.
The atheist channels are thriving, and the comment sections are heartbreaking.

There is a way for the church to live its lives beyond reproach.
I personally wonder if some of the threads here are God-inspired.

My Charismatic mother told me on her deathbed that the most important thing in life is relationships. This was something I would say to her often when she would obsess about false teachings. I would tell her that nothing I was saying was denying the power of God.

I trust God. I believe in the church.


.

 

[Underd0g]

Sometimes when a believing person avails himself or herself, the Holy Spirit will move on the person, and they are made a server of the Lord. There are also instances where a person will ask and receive a deed from the Father. It is a wonderful privilege to be used such, unforgettable.

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you are saying here.
When I met God and realized He was real and present in the church basement with me, it was overwhelming.
I cried openly in front of my friends without caring what they thought of me because I knew what was happening.
This was my introduction to The Holy Spirit, and I'm grateful for it. I've never been concerned that it was an emotional breakdown because I know the basis and cause of my experience, and it is because I had a revelation of The Living God.

But I've been deceived by emotion since then, and I've witnessed it in others.
Generally, it can be obviously seen as pride, but none of us sees the hearts of other people.
I try to believe the best in folks. There usually is evidence somewhere down the road in relationships to discern.

Again, don't know exactly what you were saying.

.

 

[JaumeJ]

I cried openly in front of my friends without caring what they thought of me because I knew what was happening.

When this occurred for you, did you not avail yourself, that is surrender yourself, to our Father?
When I first became assured of our Father's Presence, Light came into me, and I knew all would be fine, in His time.
Fellowshipping with a small, charismatic group on campus was wonderful until I confessed to the group that Jesus, Yeshua, was a Jew because He was born to the Tribe of Judah.
I awas told I was demon possessed. Hearing this, I declared, were I demon possessed, and anyone knew it, they would cast it out immediately for our God is the god of order and not confusion.
All I heard from the small congregation after I made this declaration was utter silence, and all I saw were dropped open mouths...
We must never forget that we are grafted into the original vine, and not a new vine.

 

[Underd0g]

When this occurred for you, did you not avail yourself, that is surrender yourself, to our Father?
When I first became assured of our Father's Presence, Light came into me, and I knew all would be fine, in His time.
Fellowshipping with a small, charismatic group on campus was wonderful until I confessed to the group that Jesus, Yeshua, was a Jew because He was born to the Tribe of Judah.
I awas told I was demon possessed. Hearing this, I declared, were I demon possessed, and anyone knew it, they would cast it out immediately for our God is the god of order and not confusion.
All I heard from the small congregation after I made this declaration was utter silence, and all I saw were dropped open mouths...
We must never forget that we are grafted into the original vine, and not a new vine.

I think you may have misunderstood.
I cried because of the evil going on in this false ministry.
I cried for the parents who were deceived.
I cried for the children exposed to this false hope from false teachers.
I cried because God was blasphemed.

The group you talk about is deceived as well.

.

 

[pinebeach]

I think you may have misunderstood.
I cried because of the evil going on in this false ministry.
I cried for the parents who were deceived.
I cried for the children exposed to this false hope from false teachers.
I cried because God was blasphemed.

The group you talk about is deceived as well.

.

Maybe we need to back this up abit? I think you gave the wrong impression here. I understood you had a positive experience as did JaumeJ. This is not my favorite expression, but let's not throw that proverbial baby out with the backwater.

Underdog, tell me if I am wrong, but I get the impression you may not have anything good to say about Charasmatic circles? Again, please feel free to correct me because I truly do want to understand. So, I am just going to ask a straightforward question and I would like a straightforward answer please.

Are you against the spiritual gifts listed in Ephesians? That is, do you believe they are no longer in effect today and anyone say, speaking in tongues or what have you, is faking it?

I honestly do not understand your response to JaumeJ. You know all the details and of course we do not. Thanks and feel free to ask any questions of me that you want. I would like to see this thread progress, if it is going to, in a manner that is helpful and with the understanding that different people are in different places in their life. That being said, it is my conviction that God is about saving people and not ministries...if you know what I mean by that.

One more thing, I don't think it is helpful to tell another person that they are involved in deception or that they are deceived without better information and certainly let's not do that coming from a place of personal hurt. Thanks

 

[Underd0g]

Maybe we need to back this up abit? I think you gave the wrong impression here. I understood you had a positive experience as did JaumeJ. This is not my favorite expression, but let's not throw that proverbial baby out with the backwater.

Underdog, tell me if I am wrong, but I get the impression you may not have anything good to say about Charasmatic circles? Again, please feel free to correct me because I truly do want to understand. So, I am just going to ask a straightforward question and I would like a straightforward answer please.

Are you against the spiritual gifts listed in Ephesians? That is, do you believe they are no longer in effect today and anyone say, speaking in tongues or what have you, is faking it?

I honestly do not understand your response to JaumeJ. You know all the details and of course we do not. Thanks and feel free to ask any questions of me that you want. I would like to see this thread progress, if it is going to, in a manner that is helpful and with the understanding that different people are in different places in their life. That being said, it is my conviction that God is about saving people and not ministries...if you know what I mean by that.

One more thing, I don't think it is helpful to tell another person that they are involved in deception or that they are deceived without better information and certainly let's not do that coming from a place of personal hurt. Thanks

Good and valid questions.
Of course, I believe in the gifts of The Holy Spirit.
I believe the miracles stated in the Bible.
I believe that God can suspend the laws of physics, and there is the possibility that He has done it in modern times.

What I have never experienced is a Charismatic who has maintained a balanced and rational view of a spiritual life.
To a man, when challenged, they have muddied the waters on their assertions and have refused to answer questions.
If someone tells me they heard God tell them do thus and such, I have no way to disprove that.
It's frustrating when this same person participates in gossip that poisons relationships and is unwilling to hear correction.

I relent, no one is perfect, but how do you test the Spirits when the automatic response is that I am defying The Spirit of God?

I guess it's charitable to believe there are sincere Christians among the multitude that attend Joel Osteen's church, but what does that say about their discernment?

Who are the respected leaders of the Charismatic movement?
They are falling like dominoes. Who is left to carry on the principles of Charismatic beliefs?
What are those beliefs?
I don't know one name. I don't know one healthy belief other than the beliefs I hold to already.

No, I can't disprove that they didn't see someone raised from the dead, that a leg was elongated, or that an interpretation of tongues isn't spot on.
Proving a negative is problematic.
It would have been helpful if the supposed balanced ones denounced the frauds all along.
What are the odds that in 50 years and all of my encounters, I never met one?
The time spent on seeing angels, demons, and talking audibly to Jesus Himself drains their credibility.

Jaumel denounced the group himself.
This is compatible with my observations. Everyone outs their own churches and the hypocrisy that exists in them.
They just don't see it in themselves.

If God is unable to build a perfect church beyond reproach, He shouldn't have promised to.
That bride is meeting Jesus without spot or wrinkle; I guarantee it because God did.

Look, I've been avoiding sharing this because I haven't wanted to be viewed as an object of sympathy.
Everyone's lives have unique challenges, and these challenges shape how they think.
People with traumas are influenced in certain ways.

My situation is that my wife of 45 years is in the 6th stage of early onset Frontotemporal Dementia.
As a result, I have lived a life of intense isolation. This disease drives people away.
I have never been asked what my wife is experiencing or what I go through.
My opinions of Christianity aren't limited to Charismatics. I believe the entire church body is shot.
The "normal" Christians in our lives told us early on that they are "bad at texting". A couple told me how strapped for money they were when I had never solicited financial support. They wanted to head things off.

As a result, I have determined to go through this on my own. I have never used in-home nursing or respite care.
I have chosen not to administer medication because that would weaken her.
As a result, my wife talks nonstop for hours at a time, unintelligibly. This puts people off to the extent that when she could walk, neighbors would duck into their apartments, and now that she can't go for walks, it freaks people out, so they don't visit.

This progression is something we have been going through for ten years without a single Christian thinking anything of it.
Once I let it slip to one of my sons that I don't have significant conversations with people in person for weeks and months at a time.
I listened to his verbal incredulity expressed as this soaked in, but it didn't alter his behavior.

No, I'm not judgmental of every relationship in my life. Only leaders and people who state their values from their own mouths.
If a Charismatic has a book or a teacher that I can examine, it's never been offered to me before.
Trump promoted Kenneth Copeland.
Mainstream pastors get excited about people coming back from the dead without even considering that these authors might be scamming. They want so badly to believe. It tickles their followers' ears.
Fox News has promoted all kinds of false teaching.
Speaking of which, Fox News promotes all kinds of profane and depraved humor and has corrupted the Christian women anchors who normally would have had a decent Christian witness.

The church is more ill than most can even imagine.

Back to my situation. I have spent the majority of my Christian experience writing about my observations and reexamining them over and over. Especially in the past ten years, I have become more convinced that before the miracles, repentance, and revival are going to occur.
This isn't a prophecy, just a speculation. I want repentance over miracles anyway.

I know I'm not crazy because my wife understood what I was saying before my complete thoughts left my mouth.
She is the only person I would bank my life on her salvation.
She never obfuscated in our conflicts. My first indication of her dementia was that we started going to bed with unresolved issues.
It was because she couldn't follow the conversations or arguments. Before that, without exception, we came to agreement before going to sleep.
All our friends and relatives knew this.
This is what I'm searching for to be the norm in the church. This might be my last-ditch effort.

I can be fun, and I can be empathetic. I have no doubt of this. I dread confrontation and would rather go through my suffering without anyone thinking about me.

Suffering brings one closer to God. My God shall supply all our needs. We need suffering, it's no strange thing.

But to take your suffering and interpret it through the lens of miracles isn't healthy.
This is the state of the Charismatic movement.

Look at which threads get attention. Does that say anything to you about the mindset and character of Christians?

I have decades of observations I would refer to as insights. I have no reason to avoid them being vetted.
It's just that I get banned from churches before they will examine them.

But I would be more than willing to investigate the best of the best of Charismatic teachers and authors.

And the next time I hear, "No such thing as a perfect church", my reply will be, "Only because they serve an imperfect God."



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[NightTwister]

Understandable. The menu was a little different though.

I was once told that about a "restaurant" in Singapore. I made sure never to go there...