Christian

[Goneh]

Hallo,

I live in Germany. But I come from South-Africa.

Culturally my people are Dutch Reformed. I grew up in a Pentecostal Church though.
Here in Germany where I live the state church is Lutheran but the culture is secular, especially because of the 40 years (1949 - 1989) under ant-Christian communit USSR.
After having served in the Lutheran Church for about 7 years I am now going to a pentecostal church since January.

I am interested in Theology.
Eschatologically I am an Idealist - a view not very much represented in the English speaking world.
I am a teacher in a Waldorfschool, which has an esoteric foundation in anthroposophy. The most significant departure from classical Christianity is an emphasis on reincarnation. It is school holidays now, so I came here because of boredom.

I am also interested in politics. My views are libertarian in general.

 

[Magenta]

Welcome!

 

[TabinRivCA]

Hi Goneh, glad the Lord led you to CC, welcome! Sounds like quite a challenge where you are at and it looks like you can be a shining light in the darkness. I never understood why someone would want to believe in reincarnation, losing all family ties and possibly coming back as a frog, if one's not good, lol. Hope you will join in some of the Threads when you're ready, God bless & keep you!✝

 

[Goneh]

Hi Goneh, glad the Lord led you to CC, welcome! Sounds like quite a challenge where you are at and it looks like you can be a shining light in the darkness. I never understood why someone would want to believe in reincarnation, losing all family ties and possibly coming back as a frog, if one's not good, lol. Hope you will join in some of the Threads when you're ready, God bless & keep you!✝

Thank you.

The antroposophic understanding of reincarnation doesn't hold that reincarnation takes place across species. Human spirits reincarnate as humans.

 

[Bingo]

 

[Gideon300]

Thank you.

The antroposophic understanding of reincarnation doesn't hold that reincarnation takes place across species. Human spirits reincarnate as humans.

Not a Biblical point of view. People die once then there is the judgement. (Hebrews 9:27). I don't know why anyone believes in incarnation. It is more confusing to me how a Christian can believe in incarnation.

 

[Tall_Timbers]

Welcome, Goneh!

 

[Goneh]

Not a Biblical point of view. People die once then there is the judgement. (Hebrews 9:27). I don't know why anyone believes in incarnation. It is more confusing to me how a Christian can believe in incarnation.

It has to do with ones understanding of what man is.
If one holds that man is also threefold: Body, soul and spirit.
Then one might ask oneself whether spirit is something eternal, meaning it existed before the body was born.

The question about John the baptist being Elija, alludes to this idea.
As per the name, anthroposophy - it's about what man is.
It's an interesting topic.

 

[Gideon300]

It has to do with ones understanding of what man is.
If one holds that man is also threefold: Body, soul and spirit.
Then one might ask oneself whether spirit is something eternal, meaning it existed before the body was born.

The question about John the baptist being Elija, alludes to this idea.
As per the name, anthroposophy - it's about what man is.
It's an interesting topic.

The spirit of man is God's breath of life. His soul is God's creation. Indeed man is spirit, soul and body. If the spirit of man existed before Adam was created, there would be no need for God to breath the breath of life into man.

John the Baptist was not Elijah. He was a prophet like Elijah, and prophesied by Isaiah. If you say that John was the reincarnation of Elijah, then Jesus is the reincarnation of Moses (Deuteronomy 18:15). No way is that correct.

The spirit of man is not eternal. It died when Adam disobeyed God. This is deduced from the consequences of Adam's sin. He did not die physically, his soul was still functional, so what's left? The spirit is dead to God. It has not ceased to exist. So it is eternal in that sense. However, God needed man to be able to die, otherwise man could not have been saved. So God stopped the sinful pair from eating of the tree of life.

There is no justification for the idea of reincarnation. God says that we die and face the judgement, some to eternal punishment, some to eternal life. No room for reincarnation there.

 

[Goneh]

The spirit of man is God's breath of life. His soul is God's creation. Indeed man is spirit, soul and body. If the spirit of man existed before Adam was created, there would be no need for God to breath the breath of life into man.

John the Baptist was not Elijah. He was a prophet like Elijah, and prophesied by Isaiah. If you say that John was the reincarnation of Elijah, then Jesus is the reincarnation of Moses (Deuteronomy 18:15). No way is that correct.

The spirit of man is not eternal. It died when Adam disobeyed God. This is deduced from the consequences of Adam's sin. He did not die physically, his soul was still functional, so what's left? The spirit is dead to God. It has not ceased to exist. So it is eternal in that sense. However, God needed man to be able to die, otherwise man could not have been saved. So God stopped the sinful pair from eating of the tree of life.

There is no justification for the idea of reincarnation. God says that we die and face the judgement, some to eternal punishment, some to eternal life. No room for reincarnation there.

I disagree because Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elija.

I don't mind the disagreement though.

Completely aligned thinking one finds mostly with sectarian religions. So different points of view amongst Christians is actually a good sign.

Maybe it's better to start a thread about this.

 

[Gideon300]

I disagree because Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elija.

I don't mind the disagreement though.

Completely aligned thinking one finds mostly with sectarian religions. So different points of view amongst Christians is actually a good sign.

Maybe it's better to start a thread about this.

I'll not argue the point. I can agree to disagree. If you want to start a thread, feel free.

 

[tourist]

Glad to have you onboard with us. Welcome to CC.

 

[PennEd]

I disagree because Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elija.

I don't mind the disagreement though.

Completely aligned thinking one finds mostly with sectarian religions. So different points of view amongst Christians is actually a good sign.

Maybe it's better to start a thread about this.

Welcome.

Boy, you jumped right into what most Christians would believe to be heretical doctrine. Reincarnation.

Here is the quote from Jesus you are referring to:

New King James Version
Matthew 11:14
And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come.

Seems pretty clear Jesus is referring to a type, not the actual person.
Further, John himself says THIS:

John 1:21 (NKJV) : "And they asked him, 'What then? Are you Elijah?' He said, 'I am not.' 'Are you the Prophet?' And he answered, 'No.'"

 

[Isny]

Hallo,

I live in Germany. But I come from South-Africa.

Culturally my people are Dutch Reformed. I grew up in a Pentecostal Church though.
Here in Germany where I live the state church is Lutheran but the culture is secular, especially because of the 40 years (1949 - 1989) under ant-Christian communit USSR.
After having served in the Lutheran Church for about 7 years I am now going to a pentecostal church since January.

I am interested in Theology.
Eschatologically I am an Idealist - a view not very much represented in the English speaking world.
I am a teacher in a Waldorfschool, which has an esoteric foundation in anthroposophy. The most significant departure from classical Christianity is an emphasis on reincarnation. It is school holidays now, so I came here because of boredom. I am also interested in politics. My views are libertarian in general.

Greetings Goneh. You wrote a most interesting introduction above. We are glad you have joined us and look forward to posting with you. Welcome!

 

[Goneh]

Welcome.

Boy, you jumped right into what most Christians would believe to be heretical doctrine. Reincarnation.

Here is the quote from Jesus you are referring to:

New King James Version
Matthew 11:14
And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come.

Seems pretty clear Jesus is referring to a type, not the actual person.
Further, John himself says THIS:

John 1:21 (NKJV) : "And they asked him, 'What then? Are you Elijah?' He said, 'I am not.' 'Are you the Prophet?' And he answered, 'No.'"

Yeah, it's because of the people I work for. The Waldorfschool, it is based on Anthroposophy, a philosophical and obviously heretical, esoteric and ocult school of thought from 1920s Germany.

Nonetheless, according to the old churches, I am also heretical for being Reformed. So I don't put too much weight on the word.

But getting to the question at hand, I think what we as second millennium Christians fail to appreciate is that, Eljah was expected to come before the Messiah:

“Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes. And he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction.”
Malachi 4:5-6

Already this verse alone, begs the question: HOW will the Lord send Elijah?

You say: "...not the actual person..." and I think all "Anthroposophen" and even Hindus (not 100% sure) would agree with you on this. No one thinks reincarnation is "the actual person". So much so, that most people have no recollection of "where they were before", just like John.
The better question to ask is - what is meant by reincarnation? Like I said before, this has to do with the eternity of the Spirit (weather dead or alive) in man.

We Christians however, are mostly triggered by the word, without trying to understand what it could mean. But as you can see, I have put some thought into it.