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Spokenpassage
Guest
My view is from scripture.
John 10:27-30 NASB
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one."
No we cannot lose our salvation once you are saved. Only those who are not of us fall away, for if they were of us they would have remained...
1 John 2:18-24 NASB
"Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.
"But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth. Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.
"Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father."
John 10:27-30 NASB
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one."
No we cannot lose our salvation once you are saved. Only those who are not of us fall away, for if they were of us they would have remained...
1 John 2:18-24 NASB
"Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.
"But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth. Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.
"Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father."
They cover this in the Bible Discussion forum lol
But my opinion, is that yes. You always have a choice. I've had it, and lost it before. And then had it again!
But my opinion, is that yes. You always have a choice. I've had it, and lost it before. And then had it again!
I beg to differ if those scriptures are referring to one's salvation.
To me, you can lose your salvation just as fast as you can gain it. As Ronnie stated, you always have a choice. It's your choice to give your life to Jesus and it's your choice to deny Jesus. Yes it is true that anyone who claims to be saved is actually not really saved at all. But...I've known people who have had an evident relationship with Christ yet they fell away into a life of sin. It is possible because the devil still goes to and fro seeking whom he may devour. If you take off your armor of God or just never put it on at all, you are an easy prey for the devil to steal your focus from God. For the enemy comes to kill, steal, and destroy.
If I may say so, you're a young man, but who has figured out God's grace in the Gospel far more than a lot of veteran theologians.
Blessings.
S
Spokenpassage
Guest
We are saved by grace, not of ourselves. We endure by grace, not of ourselves. If you didn't earn salvation, neither can you lose it. When God saves a person, He first gives them new life which the scriptures refer to as being born again, then He draws them to faith and repentance. All of that is by His grace and mercy. He transforms your desire to resist into desiring Him and His fullness. We must remember it was the Lord who drew us to be found by Christ, it was the Lord who made us humble to receive His offer of salvation, it was the Lord who saved you, and it will be the Lord who preserves you. Grace changes one's rebellion to complete surrender. Thus, we can never want to fall away, and thus, the Lord is the the Perfecter and Finisher of our faith. To suggest otherwise, that we make the choice of the end, is to say we are the perfecter and finisher of our faith.
Remember our free will is either in bondage to sin, or freed by grace. There is never a middle ground by which we stand. Jesus said that all who sin is a slave to it. But He also said, if the Son sets you free you will be free indeed.
Don't be fooled, the devil wants you to doubt. God is greater than him, He will preserve His children.
Remember our free will is either in bondage to sin, or freed by grace. There is never a middle ground by which we stand. Jesus said that all who sin is a slave to it. But He also said, if the Son sets you free you will be free indeed.
Don't be fooled, the devil wants you to doubt. God is greater than him, He will preserve His children.
If you haven't got it, you never had it.
It's all of grace. Eternal life, if really possessed by saving faith, does not become uneternal.
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Spokenpassage
Guest
Never neglect what those before us have learned and taught, for what we think we may know was already understood by men of God in the past. Even the elder brothers in the faith today such as yourself.
I'm not a big supporter of once saved, always saved. However, I do agree with some of things you have said
Salvation: It's like going swimming but without knowing how to swim. You start drowning so you call out for help. The lifeguard saves you but only for that moment are you saved. If you were to go back into the water, without trying to learn to swim first, you will end up in the same predicament. It's the same principle with Jesus. When someone calls out to Jesus, He saves them. But if that person is going to continue living their lifestyle, and never learns to stay a float as a Christian, the waters devour the person again. It is possible to be saved then lose your salvation
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Spokenpassage
Guest
I actually deny that analogy, heard of it before but it is not really the truth. That comes from an old Arminian story. Rather we were dead at the bottom of the sea.
As R.C. Sproul once said, "God just doesn't throw a life preserver to a drowning person. He goes to the bottom of the sea, and pulls a corpse from the bottom of the sea, takes him up on the bank, breathes into him the breath of life and makes him alive."
Scriptures:
Ephesians 2:1-7 NASB
And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
John 6:44-47 NASB
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught of God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
I think Scripture would indicate that a mere profession of salvation in someone who continues in sin in the world is not a genuine profession.
The parable of the sower in the Gospels shows that some receive the seed with joy but have no root in them, because the ground was stony. What we need to be is good ground in which the good seed of God's Word bears permanent fruit, by His grace.
Excellent and apt passages.
Life from God is sustained by Him by His grace.
The mere profession of life from God, however, does not necessarily mean real life at all.
Yes!
I know God is the one who saves us....
But how do those scriptures relate to losing/keeping your salvation?
Ezekiel 18:24-26
"But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal? When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die."
Hebrews 6:4-6
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."
2 Peter 2:20-22
"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."
So do you believe once you're saved, all your future sins are also forgiven? or do you still have to repent for those as well? If you are still capable to commit sin, then you are capable to give up your salvation
*If I'm coming off as snippy, I'm not trying to
1 John 1.7: '...if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin'.: the cleansing is present continuous tense! Hebrews 7.25: the Lord Jesus continually intercedes for His people.
Blessings.
Hebrews 7.25: the Lord Jesus continually intercedes for His people.Blessings.
So we can lie, steal, and cheat and not be held accountable for that?1 John 1.7: '...if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin'.: the cleansing is present continuous tense!
Blessings.
1 John 1.7 says 'if we walk in the light': this is expected behavior from a true Christian.
There is also a distinction between the great while throne (Revelation 21 before which unbelievers appear for their sins) and the judgment seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5.10), where the quality of service of believers will be assessed (our sins were already dealt with at the Cross).
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Spokenpassage
Guest
You agree with post #11 and then ask me this question? I'm not trying to be rude, but the concept of losing something eternal is not biblical. Once you are saved, you are sealed by the Holy Spirit. Past, present, and future sins were satisfied on the cross and there is more no more condemnation for those who believe.
People have the misconception that once saved always saved means we can live anyway we want. That's actually not what it teaches in scripture. It means once a person is saved, they continue in that faith by the grace and mercy of God. In 1 John 2, he tells us that those who fall away were really not of us. Just as Jesus spoke about the parable of the seed.
You cannot just give up something God gives you.
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Spokenpassage
Guest
How is it not Biblical? Can you please reference a scripture that says in one sentence, "Once saved, always saved." or "You cannot lose your salvation." The scriptures you have quoted can be interpreted in so many ways and quite frankly, they don't have anything to do with salvation. They are more of assurance that God is love, He is there for us, we don't have to fear, etc...but nothing about losing/keeping salvation.
Okay, maybe my comment was off with the whole lying and stuff. I apologize for that
Yes you can give up something God gives you. If God gives you a car, you can get rid of it.
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Spokenpassage
Guest
I can show you scripture after scripture, but there is always one true interpretation. Here's one in Romans.
Romans 8:28-39 NASB
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies; who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.
Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Just as it is written, "For Your sake we are being put to death all day long; We were considered as sheep to be slaughtered."
But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8:28-39 NASB
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies; who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.
Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Just as it is written, "For Your sake we are being put to death all day long; We were considered as sheep to be slaughtered."
But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.