At what point in a believers walk is the "old man" put to death?

[Jimbone]

I just wanted to put this question out there to find out what others believe about this idea. I have recently come across someone that seems to think that the "old man", as referenced in Romans, is not put to death this side of eternity. He is also pretty certain that the old man being put to death means sinless perfection as a result. I have never even heard this case made before so wanted to just put it out there. Also to be fair I guess I'll add my understanding that the "old man" was put to death the same time I was granted repentance and born again. Anyway I really wanted to see what others say.

 

[Blain]

I am pretty sure as far as the old man is put to death goes it means once we are saved we are a new person and thus the old man is put to rest. However some view the old man as the sin and habits we had before we were saved so i can see why he would think that. if that is in fact the case then my old man needs to stop trying to raise himself from the dead.
But personally my understanding is that we are born again a new creation and thus the old man died

 

[oldethennew]

upon 'conversion', ALL PAST SINS are forgiven' - we are blessed with a NEW START-CLEAN SLATE, and then we know that we have our Holy Saviour to go to when convicted of the sins that we will now be able to put-away, for He goes to The Father and inter-cedes for us, thus giving us the knowledge that we are definitely going to be able to 'OVER-COME' the old, by and by, and be able to embrace His Holy gift of The Light that He has gifted us with...Long journey of over-coming, but, oh what a bless-ed journey it is:
for those who can receive this, we know that this is why we were born...

 

[Jimbone]

I am pretty sure as far as the old man is put to death goes it means once we are saved we are a new person and thus the old man is put to rest. However some view the old man as the sin and habits we had before we were saved so i can see why he would think that. if that is in fact the case then my old man needs to stop trying to raise himself from the dead.
But personally my understanding is that we are born again a new creation and thus the old man died

Yes, this is what I understand it to be, it does not mean "I'm sinless now", it means I am spiritually born again and your spirit is reconciled to His, making you ALL NEW and now able to do things to glorify Him, where as the "old man" could not please God. Yes we do still battle the flesh, but the new man is the only reason there's a battle. My old man has been put to death, and I've been made all new. This just simply doesn't mean "I'm sinless now".

Thanks for your input though brother and may God draw you ever closer daily.

 

[Deade]

Yes, this is what I understand it to be, it does not mean "I'm sinless now", it means I am spiritually born again and your spirit is reconciled to His, making you ALL NEW and now able to do things to glorify Him, where as the "old man" could not please God. Yes we do still battle the flesh, but the new man is the only reason there's a battle. My old man has been put to death, and I've been made all new. This just simply doesn't mean "I'm sinless now".

Thanks for your input though brother and may God draw you ever closer daily.

Good handle on our status with God. If Satan can convince us to blame ourselves for our sinful natures, he has us looking back. While looking back we can't move forward. I just tell that old liar that I may not be sinless but I am forgiven.

 

[Jimbone]

Good handle on our status with God. If Satan can convince us to blame ourselves for our sinful natures, he has us looking back. While looking back we can't move forward. I just tell that old liar that I may not be sinless but I am forgiven.

Amen brother.

 

[Jimbone]

upon 'conversion', ALL PAST SINS are forgiven' - we are blessed with a NEW START-CLEAN SLATE, and then we know that we have our Holy Saviour to go to when convicted of the sins that we will now be able to put-away, for He goes to The Father and inter-cedes for us, thus giving us the knowledge that we are definitely going to be able to 'OVER-COME' the old, by and by, and be able to embrace His Holy gift of The Light that He has gifted us with...Long journey of over-coming, but, oh what a bless-ed journey it is:
for those who can receive this, we know that this is why we were born...

Yes, our true purpose, impossible to find outside of Jesus, yet we are all longing for it, trying to find it in the flesh blindly. Praise our Gods unbelievable mercy and love.

 

[dcontroversal]

The bible seems clear, we are born again from above by incorruptible seed......and are called a NEW creation in Christ Jesus....my view...the old man is crucified with Christ at the moment of belief.........

 

[zeroturbulence]

 

[Lafftur]

Yes, this is what I understand it to be, it does not mean "I'm sinless now", it means I am spiritually born again and your spirit is reconciled to His, making you ALL NEW and now able to do things to glorify Him, where as the "old man" could not please God. Yes we do still battle the flesh, but the new man is the only reason there's a battle. My old man has been put to death, and I've been made all new. This just simply doesn't mean "I'm sinless now".

Thanks for your input though brother and may God draw you ever closer daily.

In God’s domain, NOTHING is a battle. It’s all about AUTHORITY. Who is The Most High? He is the One with the most authority.

In Christ, we are born again of incorruptible seed and given authority over our sinful nature and this world.

Therefore, we are NEVER taken as captives to sin, but we have a choice to walk according to our flesh or the spirit.

If we choose the flesh, we will sin.

If we choose the spirit, we will not sin.

It’s not about “natures” anymore. We’re back in the garden - it’s about “choices”..........again!!!

 

[Lynx]

I'll tell you the best thing
I ever did do
I laid off the old robe
And I put on the new


The old man is constantly and continually put to death. He was first put to death when I got tired of the way I was living, determined conclusively I could not change on my own and repented and started living God's way. The old man is put to death every day as I make conscious decisions to do what is right or what is gratifying.

The bible quote about dying daily applies here but I'm too lazy to look it up.

 

[Kim82]

The Bible says when we sin, it is not we who sin but sin that is living in us. Where as in another place it says that we have a new soul/new man. I'm not clear on this issue.

Scripture says, be perfect just as the Lord is perfect, and in another scripture it says, if we say we don't have sin, we are liars.

 

[Jimbone]

In God’s domain, NOTHING is a battle. It’s all about AUTHORITY. Who is The Most High? He is the One with the most authority.

In Christ, we are born again of incorruptible seed and given authority over our sinful nature and this world.

Therefore, we are NEVER taken as captives to sin, but we have a choice to walk according to our flesh or the spirit.

If we choose the flesh, we will sin.

If we choose the spirit, we will not sin.

It’s not about “natures” anymore. We’re back in the garden - it’s about “choices”..........again!!!

Amen, I agree so much this, and think the change of "nature" is the best way I've heard it described too. Thanks for the input.

 

[RickyZ]

I just wanted to put this question out there to find out what others believe about this idea. I have recently come across someone that seems to think that the "old man", as referenced in Romans, is not put to death this side of eternity. He is also pretty certain that the old man being put to death means sinless perfection as a result. I have never even heard this case made before so wanted to just put it out there. Also to be fair I guess I'll add my understanding that the "old man" was put to death the same time I was granted repentance and born again. Anyway I really wanted to see what others say.

Few people die in an instant. It is usually more of a process. I believe that when we are saved the old man becomes mortally wounded, but will not entirely pass until we do. In the between time it's a process of the old dying off as the new birth grows and matures.

 

[Milee777]

In God’s domain, NOTHING is a battle. It’s all about AUTHORITY. Who is The Most High? He is the One with the most authority.

In Christ, we are born again of incorruptible seed and given authority over our sinful nature and this world.

Therefore, we are NEVER taken as captives to sin, but we have a choice to walk according to our flesh or the spirit.

If we choose the flesh, we will sin.

If we choose the spirit, we will not sin.

It’s not about “natures” anymore. We’re back in the garden - it’s about “choices”..........again!!!

Very informative.
Now the next time i am tempted to sin...i have a choice to chose not to sin.
Now suppose an unbeliever/non christian is tempted to sin he also has a choice - for example -
a man(non Christian , say a hindu) is driving his car and he is with his family in the car ...and there's a slow and awful driver ahead and he is tempted to say a bad word loudly to this fellow ahead - he has a choice ...but he chooses to refrain himself because his family is with him and he doesn't want his children to listen to bad words or learn them.
He chooses the right thing.
Now there is a Christian -
for example - its me driving a car ...am all by myself...there's an awful driver taking a wrong turn and i have to apply my break abruptly...i spontaneously say something awful about this person.
I chose the wrong thing.
Give me a better picture..of the difference between the life of a Christian and a non-Christian. A non Christian sometimes wants to do the right thing..you see...maybe they are tired of their ways or just want to be accepted by the society..for whatever reason. Sometimes they do want to change the behavior. And sometimes a Christian (me...i am not saying all) may want to do the wrong things to relieve their miserable state ...like for example depression. Take me for an example..i was chatting with a random Christian guy on a dating website and kind of attached to him and ignoring God and the Bible as though i was leaning totally on that guy for my well being just because i was depressed and i wanted to do it because i didn't feel like reading the Bible and wasn't able to pray because of a miserable confusion and guilt and all sorts of panics that i had gone through and also to fill the gap within me .....we talked for about a month or so until i got a text from my Pastor about me being careful in this very area. It was as though he knew where i was without me telling him anything about this. I was astonished at what he texted me. I sensed this was straight from God and stopped texting this guy. But you see...the desire was there.
I go to my college , i see an atheist being kind and feeling bad about people's ailments (i am a medical student)..but within me there is no feelings...there is just a burden ...just a 'need' to be kind...a 'need' to do good...like a burden within me. I pray and ask for God to give me a heart like His ...and i have been waiting ....impatiently though. I just...don't get it. The light shines in the dark....but there is no darkness sometimes to let the light shine i feel...or maybe there is no light to lit a bright room to even brighter room ....i don't know. I just don't know. Sometimes i feel lower than these atheists who love better than me. But yes many a times i meet the ones who hate , who lie , who ridicule , who scoff , who envy , who exclude people from their 'groups' and hate God...yes but..
Correct me. i don't mind. Scold me if need be.
Thanks.
Alright ..in my mind i am thinking i will just read my Bible now...

 

[Jimbone]

I'll tell you the best thing
I ever did do
I laid off the old robe
And I put on the new


The old man is constantly and continually put to death. He was first put to death when I got tired of the way I was living, determined conclusively I could not change on my own and repented and started living God's way. The old man is put to death every day as I make conscious decisions to do what is right or what is gratifying.

The bible quote about dying daily applies here but I'm too lazy to look it up.

I agree and undewrstand what you're sayib

Few people die in an instant. It is usually more of a process. I believe that when we are saved the old man becomes mortally wounded, but will not entirely pass until we do. In the between time it's a process of the old dying off as the new birth grows and matures.

I understand what you mean, and agree. I am by no means claiming sinless perfection this side of the grave. My point is the "old man" could NOT please God, he was blind to the things of the spirit because his spirit was dead. When God grants us repentance the "old man" that could not please God is put to death (or I guess in the way you're thinking, is joined by" the spirit for the first time), behold you are made all new, spiritually resurrected with Christ and reconciled to the Spirit. Now through His grace, for His glory, you can now be pleasing to God where before you could not, you are made all new, different form the inside out, forgiven, righteous in the presents of a Holy God, praise Jesus name.

That is the sense the old man is put to death, I do not disagree with the continuing battle with the flesh, but my main focus is on the change not what stays the same. This is my biggest point here is proclaiming the power of Jesus to change men, not proclaim what men do to still resist God. I hear Christians say "we will always sin", far too often in my opinion, and not because what they are saying isn't true, it is 100% true, and for the believer struggling with crushing guilt these words are necessary, they do have their place, but in general I think the power, glory, justice, love, goodness, the necessity of, and complete heart change should be coming from the lips of the Christian FAR more than the weaknesses of man to resist God after one is saved, as like a preemptive strike on guilt that "may one day be". That's it, but fully agree with the struggle.

 

[Lafftur]

Very informative.
Now the next time i am tempted to sin...i have a choice to chose not to sin.
Now suppose an unbeliever/non christian is tempted to sin he also has a choice - for example -
a man(non Christian , say a hindu) is driving his car and he is with his family in the car ...and there's a slow and awful driver ahead and he is tempted to say a bad word loudly to this fellow ahead - he has a choice ...but he chooses to refrain himself because his family is with him and he doesn't want his children to listen to bad words or learn them.
He chooses the right thing.
Now there is a Christian -
for example - its me driving a car ...am all by myself...there's an awful driver taking a wrong turn and i have to apply my break abruptly...i spontaneously say something awful about this person.
I chose the wrong thing.
Give me a better picture..of the difference between the life of a Christian and a non-Christian. A non Christian sometimes wants to do the right thing..you see...maybe they are tired of their ways or just want to be accepted by the society..for whatever reason. Sometimes they do want to change the behavior. And sometimes a Christian (me...i am not saying all) may want to do the wrong things to relieve their miserable state ...like for example depression. Take me for an example..i was chatting with a random Christian guy on a dating website and kind of attached to him and ignoring God and the Bible as though i was leaning totally on that guy for my well being just because i was depressed and i wanted to do it because i didn't feel like reading the Bible and wasn't able to pray because of a miserable confusion and guilt and all sorts of panics that i had gone through and also to fill the gap within me .....we talked for about a month or so until i got a text from my Pastor about me being careful in this very area. It was as though he knew where i was without me telling him anything about this. I was astonished at what he texted me. I sensed this was straight from God and stopped texting this guy. But you see...the desire was there.
I go to my college , i see an atheist being kind and feeling bad about people's ailments (i am a medical student)..but within me there is no feelings...there is just a burden ...just a 'need' to be kind...a 'need' to do good...like a burden within me. I pray and ask for God to give me a heart like His ...and i have been waiting ....impatiently though. I just...don't get it. The light shines in the dark....but there is no darkness sometimes to let the light shine i feel...or maybe there is no light to lit a bright room to even brighter room ....i don't know. I just don't know. Sometimes i feel lower than these atheists who love better than me. But yes many a times i meet the ones who hate , who lie , who ridicule , who scoff , who envy , who exclude people from their 'groups' and hate God...yes but..
Correct me. i don't mind. Scold me if need be.
Thanks.
Alright ..in my mind i am thinking i will just read my Bible now...

Hello Milee777,

Whoa!! I believe you love God very much and have a heart to do what is right...............it sounds like you're being too hard on yourself. You are loved and accepted in the Beloved (Jesus).

Yes! You always have a choice because you have been given authority. No longer a slave to sin.

Keep the focus on Jesus - not "good works." Fall in love with Him................

 

[Jimbone]

Very informative.
Now the next time i am tempted to sin...i have a choice to chose not to sin.
Now suppose an unbeliever/non christian is tempted to sin he also has a choice - for example -
a man(non Christian , say a hindu) is driving his car and he is with his family in the car ...and there's a slow and awful driver ahead and he is tempted to say a bad word loudly to this fellow ahead - he has a choice ...but he chooses to refrain himself because his family is with him and he doesn't want his children to listen to bad words or learn them.
He chooses the right thing.
Now there is a Christian -
for example - its me driving a car ...am all by myself...there's an awful driver taking a wrong turn and i have to apply my break abruptly...i spontaneously say something awful about this person.
I chose the wrong thing.
Give me a better picture..of the difference between the life of a Christian and a non-Christian. A non Christian sometimes wants to do the right thing..you see...maybe they are tired of their ways or just want to be accepted by the society..for whatever reason. Sometimes they do want to change the behavior. And sometimes a Christian (me...i am not saying all) may want to do the wrong things to relieve their miserable state ...like for example depression. Take me for an example..i was chatting with a random Christian guy on a dating website and kind of attached to him and ignoring God and the Bible as though i was leaning totally on that guy for my well being just because i was depressed and i wanted to do it because i didn't feel like reading the Bible and wasn't able to pray because of a miserable confusion and guilt and all sorts of panics that i had gone through and also to fill the gap within me .....we talked for about a month or so until i got a text from my Pastor about me being careful in this very area. It was as though he knew where i was without me telling him anything about this. I was astonished at what he texted me. I sensed this was straight from God and stopped texting this guy. But you see...the desire was there.
I go to my college , i see an atheist being kind and feeling bad about people's ailments (i am a medical student)..but within me there is no feelings...there is just a burden ...just a 'need' to be kind...a 'need' to do good...like a burden within me. I pray and ask for God to give me a heart like His ...and i have been waiting ....impatiently though. I just...don't get it. The light shines in the dark....but there is no darkness sometimes to let the light shine i feel...or maybe there is no light to lit a bright room to even brighter room ....i don't know. I just don't know. Sometimes i feel lower than these atheists who love better than me. But yes many a times i meet the ones who hate , who lie , who ridicule , who scoff , who envy , who exclude people from their 'groups' and hate God...yes but..
Correct me. i don't mind. Scold me if need be.
Thanks.
Alright ..in my mind i am thinking i will just read my Bible now...

My sister I don't know why your heart is so burdened with guilt. Jesus doesn't work in this way, yes of course He uses guilt to show us wrong in our lives, but He does not crush us with it, I hate that you are so overwhelmed with it, God uses ALL thing for good for those that love him, and I believe 100% there is a purpose for this, but also know that doesn't help you much here and now. I have no idea what else to say really. I pray the God give you peace inside, even in the middle of chaos, that He claim this guilt that only distracts and paralyzes you from action. You are bad, I am bad, you still find yourself sinning, so do I, so does EVERYONE ever born, besides Jesus. This is reality and we live in it, but we can not let guilt keep us from proclaiming the Truth however He leads us to do it. Yes we are bad, but He is "GOOD" and I praise His name for saving a people like us. Praise Jesus and come to Him!!!!!!

 

[Lafftur]

My sister I don't know why your heart is so burdened with guilt. Jesus doesn't work in this way, yes of course He uses guilt to show us wrong in our lives, but He does not crush us with it, I hate that you are so overwhelmed with it, God uses ALL thing for good for those that love him, and I believe 100% there is a purpose for this, but also know that doesn't help you much here and now. I have no idea what else to say really. I pray the God give you peace inside, even in the middle of chaos, that He claim this guilt that only distracts and paralyzes you from action. You are bad, I am bad, you still find yourself sinning, so do I, so does EVERYONE ever born, besides Jesus. This is reality and we live in it, but we can not let guilt keep us from proclaiming the Truth however He leads us to do it. Yes we are bad, but He is "GOOD" and I praise His name for saving a people like us. Praise Jesus and come to Him!!!!!!

Whoa, Jimbone!! Jesus NEVER puts us under a burden of guilt! Satan is the "accuser" of the brethren.

Romans 8:1 King James Version (KJV)
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

We sin when we "choose" the flesh. Keeping our focus on Jesus and falling more and more in love with Him is also a "choice" - LOVE is extremely powerful and can help us "choose" the Spirit instead of the flesh.

You are loved and accepted in the Beloved (Jesus). Just fall in love with Him and you'll start making right choices with the authority He has given you!

 

[Oncefallen]

Few people die in an instant. It is usually more of a process. I believe that when we are saved the old man becomes mortally wounded, but will not entirely pass until we do. In the between time it's a process of the old dying off as the new birth grows and matures.

Exactly, salvation happens in an instant; sanctification is a lifelong process bit by bit laying down habits of the old man and taking up the life of the new man. My pastor like to say that sanctification (the complete death of the old man) is biblically "already but not yet" meaning right here and now we are sanctified in God's eyes because He is looking at us through the lens of the blood of Christ, but practically we are still persons who will sin until the day the mortal body perishes.