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This is just a hypothetical conversation in your head. It's not even teaching anything. To be honest it sounds like you're saying there is no way to know if we are saved. It's just not true. I was exactly what you're describing here. I was like this, saw things exactly how you see them now, when...

Who is denying choice? I haven't seen anyone do that. Who are you talking about? Only people I've seen keep on clearly saying that free will doesn't = choice and we all have choice. Have not seen anyone in 471 pages deny we have a choice. This is the whole disagreement right here. You think...

So it's incoherent then? Because omniscient means knowing everything. So you can not say God is omniscient, but doesn't know some things. So it's just irrational? Open Theology embraces a none omniscient God?

Not as bad as the way you treat others that follow Jesus on this site, that is a direct slap to the face of the Man who said we should be known by our LOVE for each other. Christians are your main target, not atheist, not Hindus, Mormons, witnesses, or Muslims, nope your Holy Mission from God is...

I seems to me YOU do. You people can't seem to grasp free will DOES NOT = choice. Period. So your argument falls flat because no one is saying we don't have choice. I'm starting to think it's a spiritual thing and those who have not been born again in truth just CANNOT see it. It's just not...

Wow, if your theology is as bad as your manners you might be in trouble. You're too far gone to actually talk to. Have a nice day man, I hope you lose the anger. BTW you're not representing Jesus well at all, this makes Him look HORRIBLE.

Exactly. This isn't a very hard thing to grasp and Jesus tells us that this is true. Those who sin are slaves to sin. Period. Paul tells us that when we are born again, we become slaves to obedience leading to righteousness. So no matter in the flesh or in the Spirit, we never have a "free"...

Nope, just because you refuse to understand that freewill does NOT = Choice. Everyone that argues that we are FREE in our choice just simple refuses to understand that our choices are always a slave to our nature. You refuse to understand what we are saying and there's no way to get you to...

None of these, no not one, say that you can be saved in truth and then be unsaved. None of them.

That means it’s entirely possible for someone to believe they are saved but not be… It is. I was deceived for about 5 years thinking I was saved when I wasn't. You can't know if you're not saved, but it's impossible to not know when you are saved in truth. How comforting is that? It doesn't...

Well the problem is that they're not seeking knowledge or to understand you at all. These select few people have created this "enemy" in their heads and decided that God has called them to fight this monster. It's a Holy war. They've been trained to know the tricks of this "enemy" and therefore...

So are you saying you testify of the weakness of God to keep you from sinning? How does this in any way relate to what I was saying overall? I think you just want to argue, teach somebody somethin, and be right! Yes you are correct the slave can disobey. But when I'm talking about the Lord of...

I get that and know that's how so many are saved. That's how His word describes it and I can't see us understanding it any other way. I am in no way trying to "take" from that choice or even hint I'm trying to criticize or critique in any way. I'm not. However I do believe that God still gets...

I couldn't agree more. Fits perfectly with everything I said. I was just answering the questions you posed, but agree 100% with you here.

And this is the main point, it's only in Him that we are free from sin, right? Before that we are a SLAVE to sin, but guess what happens once God gives us spiritual life and we are born again? We get a new nature, and that nature is just as enslaved to obedience leading to righteousness as the...

The works the Lord does through you after we are born again. It differs from person to person. Eternity. He gets all the credit, because it's only by His power they are done. We have nothing to boast about, and they come AFTER salvation, not "for" it. As a result of in gratitude.

It was good but then FELL, right? So is no longer "good", not even one right? None good, I think.

Yeah but Jesus wasn't born of Adam, He was born of the Spirit, so you're point doesn't exist. Are you really comparing Jesus to us?

Very true. Great point and reading this made me immediately wonder in which ways I'm doing this. I was specifically addressing this topic in regards to what I said, but agree 100% that this problem goes FAR beyond the "freewill" debate. Thanks for this comment, it's easy to get far too into...

Absolutely, we defiantly agree. I'm also not trying to just be very nit picky about the "exact right word to use" just because, and many times I do say something about knowing what you mean, but just not technically liking the term "free"will. But I do understand what people mean in general when...