Well I think it's time to talk about the 'prophetic' and all the internet 'prophets'

Isa 41:21 Produce your cause, saith the LORD; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob.

Isa 41:22 Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come.

Isa 41:23 Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.

Isa 41:26 Who hath declared from the beginning, that we may know? and beforetime, that we may say, He is righteous? yea, there is none that sheweth, yea, there is none that declareth, yea, there is none that heareth your words.

Isa 41:28 For I beheld, and there was no man; even among them, and there was no counsellor, that, when I asked of them, could answer a word.

Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

God identifies Himself as the one true God by showing the end from the beginning.

Which no other religion or person can do.

God told us the history of mankind and what is happening at this time which is in the Bible for all the saints to see and can understand on an equal level.

Some people say I am a prophet and tell of things God said will happen in the Bible at this time.

But any saint can understand that if it is in the Bible for God gives knowledge of His word to all the saints on an equal level.

Gal 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

1Co 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

Jas 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

Mat 6.2 That they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Joh 12:43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

Some people claiming Christianity like to brag and come across as special above other saints.

Usually these people will be off in what they say.

All people can understand equally well the word of God.

And God already told us what is going on now in the Bible in detail that a person can understand why, how, and when the world will set up a system contrary to God's operation on earth causing Him to end sin on earth and no more rulership of people.

And can understand all the signs in the Bible.

If it is in the Bible all the saints can understand on an equal level.

Jer 26:3 If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings.
Jer 26:4 And thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD; If ye will not hearken to me, to walk in my law, which I have set before you,
Jer 26:5 To hearken to the words of my servants the prophets, whom I sent unto you, both rising up early, and sending them, but ye have not hearkened.

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

All the saints are prophets and prophesying when they warn the world to turn from their wicked ways to God to have salvation and escape the wrath to come.

And Jesus is coming back to get His saints and punish the world.

The prophets were sent to warn Israel to turn back to God or judgement would come upon them.

The saints do the same thing but warn the world.

pinebeach said:

So you may have noticed an op in the conspiracy and corruption forum about something called the 3 days of 'darkness'. It's in the right place. There is biblical precedent for dreams, (from God), visions and 'words from God, or 'prophecies' but the internet and probably some churches (actually churches for sure) have gone over the cliff and like the proverbial lemmings, people are jumping off that cliff to 'hear a word' from God. I mention the thread, because I responded and I really am concerned about this sort of thing, not in fear of it happening, but in concern that people 'obey' these prophets when no prophet is supposed to be without 'reins' (check their prophecies) and no prophet is supposed to be a lone ranger. (that's in the Bible)

God is not dispensing the gift of prophecy on thousands of people now nor is creating a so called 'school of prophecy' (Bethel church) in line with how a person might receive a gift; a SPIRITUAL gift is not up for grabs and a 'come and get yours' is NOT how it is received.

12 Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work. I Corinthians 12

It is the Holy Spirit who gives the gifts at the behest of God. You do not wake up one morning and think or decide you have that gift or any other gift for that matter.

I would like to discuss this from the point of view of believing the gifts are still valid so no need to jump on board and say 'there are no more tongues' or 'no more knowledge or wisdom' or what have you. I do not think we need one more sensationalistic type video from people who are prone to posting such things, wherein we discover that Benny Hinn is not a prophet or a healer. Yeah no kidding.

I cannot make anyone respect what I am asking; I am painfully aware of that. I just won't respond to the usual negative reactions and we know who will be eager to do that nor will I bother with the 'don't put God inna box' type of response either wherein teeth have gold fillings or pearls are floating through the air or feathers from angels are drifting from the ceiling. Well I might a little bit to the latter but I digress.

And, not that anyone owes me anything, I would take it as a personal favor if no one else thinks they need to straighten others out or point out scripture or argue for 112 pages straight that tongues are real. Tongues are not actually the topic anyway.

People are being led astray and hanging off the words of people calling themselves 'prophet' without any actual indication the person is a prophet. The Bible becomes boring compared to all the visions and proclamations coming from every direction and the internet has aided and abetted in that, yet, that book is our compass, our map, our protection, instruction and safety net.

So yeah. Who do I think I am to tell some to 'keep it to themselves' or tell others not to get involved in all the tributaries and off site campgrounds to argue and express opinions as if your words are in scripture. I'm not attempting control here; only asking and hoping this touchy topic might benefit some people and perhaps encourage others.

So, if approved , I will see you there.

Click to expand...

I would note that anyone who calls themselves a prophet is taking a risk. God knows whom He has given a message and whom he has not. To proclaim that God has spoken to me is to risk God's wrath. There are ample references to false prophets in scripture, and in one case, some 400 of them were killed in a single action. But also, while not explicitly stated, it seems that true prophets were capable of performing signs to support their claim that their message was from God. and I say support, because any spiritual gifts may be duplicated, only the fruits of the spirit may not be. But I would question a prophet who cannot also heal, at least occasionally, or who cannot discern spirits (if not able to discern, how would they know which spirit spoke to them) or show some other higher spiritual gift. But the fruits I would most look for would be peace, love and humility.

pinebeach said:

So you may have noticed an op in the conspiracy and corruption forum about something called the 3 days of 'darkness'. It's in the right place. There is biblical precedent for dreams, (from God), visions and 'words from God, or 'prophecies' but the internet and probably some churches (actually churches for sure) have gone over the cliff and like the proverbial lemmings, people are jumping off that cliff to 'hear a word' from God. I mention the thread, because I responded and I really am concerned about this sort of thing, not in fear of it happening, but in concern that people 'obey' these prophets when no prophet is supposed to be without 'reins' (check their prophecies) and no prophet is supposed to be a lone ranger. (that's in the Bible)

God is not dispensing the gift of prophecy on thousands of people now nor is creating a so called 'school of prophecy' (Bethel church) in line with how a person might receive a gift; a SPIRITUAL gift is not up for grabs and a 'come and get yours' is NOT how it is received.

12 Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work. I Corinthians 12

It is the Holy Spirit who gives the gifts at the behest of God. You do not wake up one morning and think or decide you have that gift or any other gift for that matter.

I would like to discuss this from the point of view of believing the gifts are still valid so no need to jump on board and say 'there are no more tongues' or 'no more knowledge or wisdom' or what have you. I do not think we need one more sensationalistic type video from people who are prone to posting such things, wherein we discover that Benny Hinn is not a prophet or a healer. Yeah no kidding.

I cannot make anyone respect what I am asking; I am painfully aware of that. I just won't respond to the usual negative reactions and we know who will be eager to do that nor will I bother with the 'don't put God inna box' type of response either wherein teeth have gold fillings or pearls are floating through the air or feathers from angels are drifting from the ceiling. Well I might a little bit to the latter but I digress.

And, not that anyone owes me anything, I would take it as a personal favor if no one else thinks they need to straighten others out or point out scripture or argue for 112 pages straight that tongues are real. Tongues are not actually the topic anyway.

People are being led astray and hanging off the words of people calling themselves 'prophet' without any actual indication the person is a prophet. The Bible becomes boring compared to all the visions and proclamations coming from every direction and the internet has aided and abetted in that, yet, that book is our compass, our map, our protection, instruction and safety net.

So yeah. Who do I think I am to tell some to 'keep it to themselves' or tell others not to get involved in all the tributaries and off site campgrounds to argue and express opinions as if your words are in scripture. I'm not attempting control here; only asking and hoping this touchy topic might benefit some people and perhaps encourage others.

So, if approved , I will see you there.

Click to expand...

I agree with you: the Holy Spirit distributes gifts as He sees fit. We don't get to "claim" them like the proverbial entitled influencer.

I don't think that genuine gifts can be "taught" or "learned" which is why I reject the idea that "tongues" are just foreign languages.

I do, however, believe that those who have received genuine gifts from the Holy Spirit need to train in the use of those gifts. That training may take place in the real world, with real consequences. Those might include criticism, slander, contempt, rejection, and even condemnation. One who has been given a real gift doesn't need to judge it based on the uninformed opinions of others.

For example, if I give a gift of a new knife to my wife (an avid cook), she is not under any obligation to cook for someone else just to prove she can use a knife. Yet that is how some people treat spiritual gifts.

With prophecy there are several biblical tests. Nobody needs to believe the prophecy. Also, nobody needs to undermine it. Just apply the biblical tests and walk accordingly.

Dino246 said:

I agree with you: the Holy Spirit distributes gifts as He sees fit. We don't get to "claim" them like the proverbial entitled influencer.

I don't think that genuine gifts can be "taught" or "learned" which is why I reject the idea that "tongues" are just foreign languages.

I do, however, believe that those who have received genuine gifts from the Holy Spirit need to train in the use of those gifts. That training may take place in the real world, with real consequences. Those might include criticism, slander, contempt, rejection, and even condemnation. One who has been given a real gift doesn't need to judge it based on the uninformed opinions of others.

For example, if I give a gift of a new knife to my wife (an avid cook), she is not under any obligation to cook for someone else just to prove she can use a knife. Yet that is how some people treat spiritual gifts.

With prophecy there are several biblical tests. Nobody needs to believe the prophecy. Also, nobody needs to undermine it. Just apply the biblical tests and walk accordingly.

Click to expand...

I will sometimes say that I "learned" a spiritual gift, but to be more accurate, I learned that I had it and how to use it. For instance, I do not know when I received the gift of discernment, but I do remember when I learned that I had it. It was a case of, "Oh, that's what I am feeling", healing was similar, I was shocked the first time I did something just because it felt like the right thing to do and another person looked at me and thanked me for healing them. And, No! I am not a healer, I can just do it sometimes, I knew a true healer and I wish I could do a tenth of what she did. She did not need to touch a person to heal them, and sometimes the effect knocked them off-balance, even though never touched.

Much of the problem arose from the celebrity culture adopted by the church. This was a carry-over from Roman and Greek mythology practices wherein commerce, city government, holy days, etc. were all influenced by their religions. I'm sure Rome isn't responsible for its inception, but venerating saints and Biblical characters in statue and stained glass didn't help believers in Christ live in humility. And it certainly didn't teach them that Christ is also alive and well inside each one who is in Christ.

But more importantly, the gifts were never to be a ministry unto themselves. Biblically, they are all to operate for the benefit of the Body of Christ; first locally then trans-locally. The goal being to support the maturity of the Body of Christ as each part (the individual saints) does their part in bringing the whole to the standard of Christ.

The great shift from the Old Testament to the New Testament, at least in my opinion, was the location of God's habitation: from that of the temple to that of His people. "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people." We are moving toward the perfect expression of that reality. Consequently, we must change our expectation of God speaking from an outward place in, to Him speaking from within, outward. This is what must be taught by the mature to the immature.

The Spirit He places in everyone, in Christ, is His own. Therefore, we are designed, as a new creation, to receive direction, correction, a word, a message, etc. directly from God to our own spirits. Yet some, as babies and young children in Christ, are not mature enough to discern the Lord's voice among all the others. So, God sends us those who are mature enough to hear and to discern and to know the Lord's voice and direction. That is why John writes to "fathers, young men, and little children" in the Lord. These are not natural demarcations of a person's age but significant stages of spiritual maturity. By this, God bakes in to the Body of Christ a need for the Body to need the Body, if you will. The young need the mature, and the mature need the young.

In a tertiary reading of scripture you will not find the apostles, like Paul, encouraging people to read the Bible more so that they become mature. You will find him instructing the young to "follow me" and to "do what I do" as one who is mature living as an example of a maturity to the children.

As a new creature, Christ becomes the source of our life and access to the direction required by that life comes from the Spirit to man's spirit - and then from that man's spirit outward, so that there is a record of that person's new life in Christ. Just as one may be what they eat physically you should also tell what one believes spiritually by how they behave. My point is this is central to a life in Christ: the spirit of man, instructed by God's Spirit, creating a life that is not of this world. Whereby the currency is faith in an economy of grace... and economy secured by His name.

So prophets... quite simply they are gifted with helping the people of God hear God. They don't operate alone like the OT prophets. No, they are to operate along side the apostles who are given a spiritual sense of what God's people ought to do. Together with the others who have the gifts of teaching, shepherding and sharing God's love (evangelizing) they build the people of God up toward maturity. This ministry should look organic and function inside soil of deep relationships in the Lord.

I'll stop for now. This is more of an outline than an essay so if there are holes you want filled just ask. To me, it really is a deep subject and one that deserves time to examine.

Grace and Peace

Dino246 said:

I agree with you: the Holy Spirit distributes gifts as He sees fit. We don't get to "claim" them like the proverbial entitled influencer.

I don't think that genuine gifts can be "taught" or "learned" which is why I reject the idea that "tongues" are just foreign languages.

I do, however, believe that those who have received genuine gifts from the Holy Spirit need to train in the use of those gifts. That training may take place in the real world, with real consequences. Those might include criticism, slander, contempt, rejection, and even condemnation. One who has been given a real gift doesn't need to judge it based on the uninformed opinions of others.

For example, if I give a gift of a new knife to my wife (an avid cook), she is not under any obligation to cook for someone else just to prove she can use a knife. Yet that is how some people treat spiritual gifts.

With prophecy there are several biblical tests. Nobody needs to believe the prophecy. Also, nobody needs to undermine it. Just apply the biblical tests and walk accordingly.

Click to expand...

Yeah, we can certainly desire the greater gifts.

"Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way."

But few talk about the increased responsibilities that come with them.

Yeah, I’m with the “or not” on this. It’s good to ask and discuss, but this kind of gossip always grieves the sweet Holy Spirit. You had my attention until you started talking about one of God’s children whom I do not watch nor listen to yet is of GOD. I don’t engage in those games. If you want to talk about spiritual gifts, what gifts belong in the office of a prophet, and so on, then praise God. About two thousand years ago, people would have asked, “Who are you? Who knows you? How long have you walked in what you preach and teach?” Then everyone would go pray.

.. yes God still uses Prophets today. Yes God talks to them 1st. Yes we all have the holy Spirit but who are you and me again? God can trust them. Many of His kids He can not trust. Are we asked to sit in and listen to and give advice in Washington about what is going on with IRAN? You the OP put out a name of someone that is not here cannot answer back nor defend themselves just because you .. who are you again? Don't like or disagree with. Yet that man is of GOD. NO I don't agree with things he says and teaches. He is not a example of what a prophet should be nor not be.

I will say about Him is.. what you saw in the past.. is what would follow (gifts) the office of a prophet. How can you expect see when you talk about just one of His who is of God like this? We just ignore that and jump to gifts? Woman of God sitting at a table with other ministries talking about all the bad things that had happen to them. It was her turn and she shared. Right after the lord said "never share the story again. "it does not behoove me". She wanted to tell everyone to go haha she had no idea what "behoove" even means.

Haha.. so talking about this "internet" prophets? It was not "lets talk about the gifts and what they would look like in the office a prophet".. as I personally understand it.

From what I've seen over the past few decades, most prophets are in it for the profit. Especially the internet kind.

On the internet? Not the place. Haven't seen anyone here cite what holds a prophet's feet to the fire. First, let it flow as stated "Do not treat prophecies with contempt" (1Thess 5:20) yet the prophet should be willing to be examined "Have two or three prophets speak, and have the others pass judgment. (1 Cor 14:29) Glory to God.

There is a difference also when a pastor preaches a message.. which is effectively prophesying.. 'speaking forth God's Word'..from the office of the prophet, which carried particular qualifications.

I think most people who have been here for a while know who the false prophets are. On the wider internet though it seems to be a growing problem for sure; they're sprouting up everywhere. It's hard to believe people actually take them seriously but they do. I've heard a lot of them say they don't claim to be a prophet, they just operate in the prophetic. Huh? I guess that gets them off the hook when their "prophecies" fail. Well, we were warned in the last days there would be rampant deception.

pinebeach said:

So you may have noticed an op in the conspiracy and corruption forum about something called the 3 days of 'darkness'. It's in the right place. There is biblical precedent for dreams, (from God), visions and 'words from God, or 'prophecies' but the internet and probably some churches (actually churches for sure) have gone over the cliff and like the proverbial lemmings, people are jumping off that cliff to 'hear a word' from God. I mention the thread, because I responded and I really am concerned about this sort of thing, not in fear of it happening, but in concern that people 'obey' these prophets when no prophet is supposed to be without 'reins' (check their prophecies) and no prophet is supposed to be a lone ranger. (that's in the Bible)

God is not dispensing the gift of prophecy on thousands of people now nor is creating a so called 'school of prophecy' (Bethel church) in line with how a person might receive a gift; a SPIRITUAL gift is not up for grabs and a 'come and get yours' is NOT how it is received.

12 Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work. I Corinthians 12

It is the Holy Spirit who gives the gifts at the behest of God. You do not wake up one morning and think or decide you have that gift or any other gift for that matter.

I would like to discuss this from the point of view of believing the gifts are still valid so no need to jump on board and say 'there are no more tongues' or 'no more knowledge or wisdom' or what have you. I do not think we need one more sensationalistic type video from people who are prone to posting such things, wherein we discover that Benny Hinn is not a prophet or a healer. Yeah no kidding.

I cannot make anyone respect what I am asking; I am painfully aware of that. I just won't respond to the usual negative reactions and we know who will be eager to do that nor will I bother with the 'don't put God inna box' type of response either wherein teeth have gold fillings or pearls are floating through the air or feathers from angels are drifting from the ceiling. Well I might a little bit to the latter but I digress.

And, not that anyone owes me anything, I would take it as a personal favor if no one else thinks they need to straighten others out or point out scripture or argue for 112 pages straight that tongues are real. Tongues are not actually the topic anyway.

People are being led astray and hanging off the words of people calling themselves 'prophet' without any actual indication the person is a prophet. The Bible becomes boring compared to all the visions and proclamations coming from every direction and the internet has aided and abetted in that, yet, that book is our compass, our map, our protection, instruction and safety net.

So yeah. Who do I think I am to tell some to 'keep it to themselves' or tell others not to get involved in all the tributaries and off site campgrounds to argue and express opinions as if your words are in scripture. I'm not attempting control here; only asking and hoping this touchy topic might benefit some people and perhaps encourage others.

So, if approved , I will see you there.

Click to expand...

Spiritual gifts. received by people from God, no one else. This be God's gift through risen Son

I have seen Spiritual cookie cutters. No thank you. I see people wanting to take the place of God and use God's word to get others under them as to be leaders.
No thank you, and have in past got deceived in this fake light as in
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

therefore, put no trust in self, or anyone else Phil 3. If anyone wants to put trust in self and get others to follow them, or even whoever wants, decides to put trust in others, as is done by a lot of people in religions today and outside of that as well, unfortunately.

Yet I see contentment in this still. Jesus is being preached, even if used selfishly by others today.

Oh boy, watch out for Paul's righteousness under Law was better than anyone else's ever, as he righteously killed people, being under literal Law, those that believed Christ was/is risen, he consented to having them killed. Then saw Stephan accept being stoned to death, Stephan claimed he was happy and said he saw his salvation, right in front of Saul, the persecutor under Law. Then the road to Damascus, as Father brought Saul in and named him Paul to see new in the risen Son for all. Not just the first chosen anymore. Which Peter did not get yet. As Peter had the three dreams and then went to the Gentiles house and entered in there illegally according to Jewish Law. As God continued(s) to love all, and has from day one done this from the first Adam to us all.

Yet, Paul gave up being under Law to win the risen Son to live through him with Father guiding him in the Holy Spirit through him. The same as Son did first. Who did nothing or said nothing without Father, Daddy's, PaPa's lead. who did not harm anyone ever in his earth walk.
Jesus never promoted himself in his earth walk. Jesus promoted Father for us to be new in his risen Life for us to get given this from Father, Daddy, PaPa.
The same love and mercy of Son, that he willingly did first, all the way to death for all. To save us from death in his risen Life, that Father gives freely to all, that Father knows are sincere and not fakes.
If you have not gotten this truth yet, then might it be you are only wanting it to spend it on your own pleasures. might that be why you have not gotten it?

Yet there are people today that do a good copy and seem as got it and do not and yet continue to try and control others, as Father in risen Son for us all does not quit reaching out in his love and mercy for us all through Son in this age of grace still going on for now. The to turn to trust God sincerely, each gets the free choice to decide thank you Father.

Thank you, anyone else it is time to decide? 1 Cor 13:1-3, I trust God's 1 Cor 13:4-7 to be imputed to each person that is sincere in belief to God, those that will not quit, will see no matter how long it might take. These will see and do the gifts, 1 Cor 13:8-12. Then will one day will see te new given them 1 Cor 13:13
Then all else will not matter anymore, thank you Lord, Love and mercy for all will finally only lead. Thank you Lord, I trust you to get this through to us all, Thank you for your patience and mercy. For sending Son to reconcile us all in that willing one time death. Risen to give new life in your Spirit and Truth to be led new in the same love and mercy of Son. John 13:34!

What has happened? Are any one of us righteous of ourselves or are any one of us even part of us can we be rewarded for doing good by God Romans 8:1-3? the way, the truth is the new life offered us each in risen Son, at least for me a person that in past was first born in the knowledge of good and bad who could decide belief or unbelief to God in this done truth of Son for us all to choose in the risen Son and see this love and mercy for all too, thanks t Father in son done once for us all to believe or not.
By Son in belief are we not already rewarded to do good humbly to all, in the same love and mercy done by Son first? because of God's done work through Son for all as makes us each as are perfect first? God required, requires perfection Col 1:21-23, done in Son once for us all. Beleive, recieve and b new in the same willingness of Son first, you think?

Beleive, recieve and be new in the same love and mercy of Son for us all first John 13:34