My Last Ditch Effort

Underd0g said:

So the whistle blower still tries to make a difference and reaches out and gets this:

Click to expand...

You are not a whistle blower. Your whistling basically consists of 'look at me look at me' For example, why are you starting up with me again? You posted in a thread I started that was actually about Bethel church finally getting the whistle blown on them by someone who actually has a wide audience, is well respected and does hours of research.

I was actually trying to draw attention to the fact that just maybe....maybe....some people were starting to have enough of some pastors who protect the false and you come along, basically take over thread and then you make that thread all about YOU.

You have no audience other than the one you have going here but sooner or later people will catch on to your self love and self aggrandizement.

You are terminally full of yourself.

You have no audience other than the one you have going here but sooner or later people will catch on to your self love and self aggrandizement. Most people might call that narcissim and they just might not be wrong. You take no correction, you plan how you will do things to create a scene in which you are the big innocent....just like you are doing with me again. You will try to make me the monster when all I did was try to help you...much more than anyone in this thread has done.

The good folks trying to appease you are not trained to see what I see.

You are terminally full of yourself.

Underd0g said:

Ok, let's try it this way.

Someone becomes aware of churches that abuse and cause great pain.
After all, children are being scarred for life. Families are torn apart.
Young adults are deconstructing the Bible and their faith.
They want to be part of the solution, so they blow the whistle.
Like @pinebeach, here is the consistent reaction:







So the whistle blower still tries to make a difference and reaches out and gets this:






Did the whistleblower know if his grievances were truly understood by @Eli1?
The whistleblower has no idea. He can only wonder why there was no explanation as to why @Eli1 shared such a callous, cynical opinion.

How long do people last with this current to fight against?
As far as I'm concerned, for my entire life.
I don't care to defend sin. I don't care if I "will never be perfect".

This is a lot of hubbub to trash one scripture, "Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand!"
That John the Baptist should look in the mirror and see that he is just blaming his personal problems on the masses.
He must be self-righteous. (sarcasm)

Click to expand...

Perhaps consider....

8‘These people honor Me with their lips,

but their hearts are far from Me.

9They worship Me in vain;

they teach as doctrine the precepts of men.’

Mark 7:8-9

Underd0g said:

How can I criticize that?
So sweet.
May I gently ask that you add standing up for people who have been abused by the church to your list of desires for growth?.

Click to expand...

Awww, thanks! But a more revealing question to ask yourself might be "why did my mind want to jump straight to criticizing?"

Regarding standing up for those who have been abused by the church, that is not my primary calling but it is still near to my heart. I taught a youth group lesson about it just last week. It wasn't the first one and Lord willing it won't be the last. We actually encourage the kids to question us as leaders and call us out if something doesn't seem right.

I even confronted the youth pastor recently about a volunteer who did not seem to have the kids best interests at heart, not intentionally abusive but cluelessly doing more harm than good.

He is no longer on the youth leadership team

Underd0g said:

View attachment 285794



I wanted to post this real quick because you make some valid points worth a response.
I don't like to repeat metaphors; it's poor writing.
You pointed out, "Poking God in the eye" which I agree is terrible. It makes me look asinine. I'm not going to use it anymore.

The sins I struggle with? I go back and forth about the subject of fiction and what is moral to view and enjoy. I value entertainment and recreation, and want to live honorably concerning this part of my life. I don't think it's a sin to read Shakespeare, but where do you draw the line?
There are only so many sources of film and TV that challenge me. Sometimes there are shows that can help me understand the world that are iffy, and I don't want to poke God in the eye while watching it....(dang)

I appreciate you and will want to say more about our interactions.

Click to expand...

Maybe if you stop worrying about what actions are sins and start looking at what drives you to those actions, you might get the point I am driving at. It is not so much what we do, that is bad enough, but why we do those things that is the real problem. I cannot remember what Christian writer used to point out that 6/7's of an iceberg is underwater and Sin is largely the same, so if you deal with the parts you can see you still miss most of the problem. Our sinful actions, whatever they may be, are driven by the Sin rooted in us, and that Sin will point out specific sinful actions so that we play "Whack-A-Sin" rather than addressing what is producing all those little sins. Remember, the heart is deceitful about all other things, and it is not what goes into the body that defiles, but what comes out. Or with regards to entertainment, be it television, film. reading, or something else (within reason), it is not what but why.

We are not separate created entities, we are interconnected aspects of creation, what we do to another part of creation, we are doing to ourselves and far too often, harming ourselves in the process.

pinebeach said:

You are not a whistle blower. Your whistling basically consists of 'look at me look at me' For example, why are you starting up with me again? You posted in a thread I started that was actually about Bethel church finally getting the whistle blown on them by someone who actually has a wide audience, is well respected and does hours of research.

I was actually trying to draw attention to the fact that just maybe....maybe....some people were starting to have enough of some pastors who protect the false and you come along, basically take over thread and then you make that thread all about YOU.

You have no audience other than the one you have going here but sooner or later people will catch on to your self love and self aggrandizement.

You are terminally full of yourself.

Click to expand...

it was very soon for me

CS1 said:

it was very soon for me

Click to expand...

I read your post. I agree

Underd0g said:

Addendum:
Something didn't make sense to me, so I did research.
@Aaron56 's story was too tidy. I looked through his posts and found these, which I attached in the above post.
I wondered why @Aaron56 didn't think it worth noting that @pinebeach could read my mind and heart.
Turns out, they both share the gift of discernment, words of knowledge, and psychic abilities.
@Aaron53 found a workaround for being Charismatic. This way, he has distance from the flakes that get caught.

I stood up for @2ndTimeIs A Charm, but she didn't stand up for me. But it figures because she enjoys quarreling here too much. If you swim in a cesspool, you're going to take on some stink.

I heard these "Stories of faith" from my family and friends. I could give you many, but I'm not going to. They're lies. (They are all attributed to the Spirit and not the miracle workers themselves, of course.)

I wish I could say it was given to me in a dream, but it was plain old logic and diligence.

Stereotype #5... I don't believe in gifts or miracles.
When in reality, I don't believe in false gifts or miracles.
I think I've burned all my bridges now.

Click to expand...

I do believe in gifts and miracles, but I also recognize just how unlikely any "perfect" example is. I have known of many instances of speaking in tongues where I can independently verify both the language spoken and the speakers previous lack of knowledge of the language, and even in some cases the speaker's ability. I was most impressed by one situation where it was an obscure language, but a native speaker told me that the person speaking was understandable but that they had a terrible accent.

Underd0g said:

There is bilingual aphasia, and there is fraud. Would people be willing to lie about miracles of God?
Let's examine history.
I've heard of ghost walking during near-death experiences as well.
People who believe the documentation could be naive.
Weird how there never is documentaion of these miracles when they would prove the existence of God.
If my wife were to be healed, you can guarantee there would be overwhelming documentation.

Click to expand...

In "miraculous" NDE accounts there are many that are extremely well documented. An individual with stage 4-B cancer, basically organs beginning to shut down, hours to live, reported having an NDE before they walked out of the hospital a few weeks later with no sign of cancer anywhere in their body. The case was thoroughly investigated by a skeptical oncology doctor who said the medical records confirmed what was claimed, and that he had changed his understanding of NDEs because of it. This is just one of the extremely well documented cases. But if one is going to claim perfection due to miraculous divine intervention, then it had better be perfect. NDEs claim to be nothing but evidence for something more than the physical being real, but then that is something that Christians should be supporting, not challenging, as Christianity also claims that there is more than just the physical.

Underd0g said:

Addendum:
Something didn't make sense to me, so I did research.
@Aaron56 's story was too tidy. I looked through his posts and found these, which I attached in the above post.
I wondered why @Aaron56 didn't think it worth noting that @pinebeach could read my mind and heart.
Turns out, they both share the gift of discernment, words of knowledge, and psychic abilities.
@Aaron53 found a workaround for being Charismatic. This way, he has distance from the flakes that get caught.

I stood up for @2ndTimeIs A Charm, but she didn't stand up for me. But it figures because she enjoys quarreling here too much. If you swim in a cesspool, you're going to take on some stink.

I heard these "Stories of faith" from my family and friends. I could give you many, but I'm not going to. They're lies. (They are all attributed to the Spirit and not the miracle workers themselves, of course.)

I wish I could say it was given to me in a dream, but it was plain old logic and diligence.

Stereotype #5... I don't believe in gifts or miracles.
When in reality, I don't believe in false gifts or miracles.
I think I've burned all my bridges now.

Click to expand...

I think you have captured it well.

Underd0g said:

@Eli1... @SomeDisciple...@Nedsk... @pinebeach... @2ndTimeIsTheCharm... @timf... @tablet123... @markss... @ResidentAlien... Just_A-Follower... @homwardbound... @Aaron56... @rewriter... @ThereRoseaLamb... @Gideon300... @Kroogz... @[URL='https://ref.ly/Ps1;esv?t=biblia']Psalm1[/URL]... @GWH...@studier... @HeIsHere... Snackersmom... @Toknow... @Inquisitor... @ChristRoseFromTheDead... @CS1... @Ceph... @GRACE_ambassador...
@Snackersmom @Nedsk @Just_A__Follower @studier

You will have to be very informed on this thread to understand my post.

I'm not the same person who created this thread, so please don't hold me to that standard.
I'm sorry for my missteps and outright obtuseness. (Sins of ignorance, so to speak.)

I don't know when God will place whom into my life, but I can't rush it artificially.

Not to say starting this thread was disobedience to God, but what I learned wasn't what I set out for.
I achieved some of the tools I needed for that goal. I now know better how to search.

I was expecting a hangover from last night because of the lack of sleep, dopamine hit, and I figured I'd get slammed by some doubt and unbelief, but it wasn't that bad. I was prepared for it.

Thank each and every one of you who experienced this with me. My hope is that you, too, have grown.

I'm going to hang around on this thread long enough to try to repair any damage that I did.

I'll donate some money here for the server space I used. Thank you, Christian Chat.
I owe you more than money.

Click to expand...

You did not damage me, but I was disappointed by your reply at post #70 to my offer to help:

You - Regarding "At this site, Christian Chat, I only see vain arguments, quarrels, and members talking past each other in petty pursuits. I don't see resolution or communication, much less a body working together. If there is anyone here looking for solutions, I haven't found them. Just page after page of blather."

Me - Not sure why you have not discovered the threads I sponsor, which are intended to promote discussion and systematic Bible study rather than arguments. As a truthseeker, solutions are what I seek.

You - I've seen your debate style. It leaves a lot to be desired. People will need to read the marriage thread to understand.

Me - Perhaps you have not read where I invite constructive criticism, because I want to learn how to improve.
If you have a problem with what I said in the Marriage thread, please share it nicely.

You?

Underd0g said:

If my wife were to be healed, you can guarantee there would be overwhelming documentation.

Click to expand...

It doesn't have to, and won't, be overwhelming in a corrupt world that diligently and violently supresses such documentation

Underd0g said:

Addendum:
Something didn't make sense to me, so I did research.
@Aaron56 's story was too tidy. I looked through his posts and found these, which I attached in the above post.
I wondered why @Aaron56 didn't think it worth noting that @pinebeach could read my mind and heart.
Turns out, they both share the gift of discernment, words of knowledge, and psychic abilities.
@Aaron53 found a workaround for being Charismatic. This way, he has distance from the flakes that get caught.

I stood up for @2ndTimeIs A Charm, but she didn't stand up for me. But it figures because she enjoys quarreling here too much. If you swim in a cesspool, you're going to take on some stink.

I heard these "Stories of faith" from my family and friends. I could give you many, but I'm not going to. They're lies. (They are all attributed to the Spirit and not the miracle workers themselves, of course.)

I wish I could say it was given to me in a dream, but it was plain old logic and diligence.

Stereotype #5... I don't believe in gifts or miracles.
When in reality, I don't believe in false gifts or miracles.
I think I've burned all my bridges now.

Click to expand...

Hi @Underd0g , you haven't burned ALL your bridges yet, though you seem to be giving it your best shot .

May I gently ask why you are now looking back through OVER 4 YEARS of @Aaron56 s posts? Apparently you do not believe some things he has said? Ok.... that's fine..... you don't have to believe him but I'm curious why you are going after him like this, did he say something rude to you that I missed?

Same with @2ndTimeIsTheCharm , has she done something we're not aware of? Are you merely upset that people are not jumping into your fight with @pinebeach ? Do you really need us to? If so, why? She doesn't know you and can't physically get to you, so why are her words bothering you so much?

If you truly feel the need for someone else to jump in, I will say this: her comments struck me as unhelpfully cold. But YOU need to examine why it is affecting you so much. Can you do that in good faith? Please? She's literally just a random person on the internet with no more pull or power than I myself posess.

Tiffs often happen on internet forums, I fight my own battles and never expect others to jump in or take my side; it can be a pretty irresponsible thing to do when the quarrel goes back to other threads and different areas of the site. None of @pinebeach s comments have affected my opinion of you, so why are they affecting your opinion of yourself?

Underd0g said:

But my issues will never be addressed...
1. How can I dispute people who are violating the laws of physics, speaking to God, and reading His mind?
2. Who believes that the Acts of the Apostles are being continued in an internet chat room?
3. Am I a terminal narcissist? Have I been emasculated by a godly woman? She doesn't know me.
4. I don't believe these events are being added to the Bible as absolute truth.
5. I will have patience and wait on God.

Only muddying of waters and obfuscation.
And cold, hard accusations with no evidence.

Click to expand...

Do you actually want these questions answered? If so, are you going to pick fights with those who answer them honestly? I'm not being cheeky, I'm serious.

I realize this post might make you angry but that is not my intention. I think that you are coming from a place of pain and abandonment and as a result you are very prickly and ready to fight. You've got to drop your sword a little if you want to find the Christian fellowship you say you want. There are some very nice people here if you allow yourself to see it. I am rooting for you, you are worth it! ❤