Grace Saves, Faith Receives, Christ Secures

FlyingDove · Sunday at 12:21 AM

Grace saves, faith receives & works follow from faith. Scripture never teaches that works produce salvation; it teaches that works flow from salvation. Passages shared (1 Cor 13, Gal 5, James 2) describe the fruit of a believer's life, not the basis of justification.

Paul is explicit: ""a man is not justified by works of the law"" (Gal 2:16), ""to him that worketh not but believeth-his faith is counted for righteousness"" (Rom 4:5) & ""by grace you have been saved through faith- not of works"" (Eph 2:8–9).

James is addressing a dead, useless, non‑saving profession - not contradicting Paul. Abraham was justified before God in Genesis 15 by faith alone; James refers to Genesis 22, decades later, where Abraham's already‑existing faith was demonstrated outwardly. Works are evidence of one's faith not the cause or a required maintenance.

Love, charity & obedience are the evidence of salvation, not the engine of it. If salvation required works to stay valid, then grace would no longer be grace, Christ would not be the Author & Finisher of faith (Heb 12:2) & no one would remain saved for long. The entire New Testament keeps the categories clear: faith justifies, works testify. We are saved by grace, through faith, unto good works (Eph 2:10).

Jesus begins it & He completes it. Salvation is His work from start to finish. All praise, glory & honor belong the Him. Amen

Ouch · Sunday at 2:05 AM

FlyingDove said:
Eternal life isn't earned or achieved; it's received through the One who gives it.

Grace = God's unmerited/unearned/undeserved favor

Jn 3:16 God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life
(NOTE: Believers in Christ's sin‑atoning death & resurrection have everlasting life - present tense.)

Jn 3:18 He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(NOTE: Unbelievers stand condemned > present tense < because they reject the Son.))

Jn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son "hath" everlasting life & he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him
(NOTE: HATH/HAVE = present tense. Eternal life is received by faith alone, no repentance lists, no rituals, no works.)

Faith alone is needed. Scripture never adds repentance lists, obedience requirements, baptism, tithing, works, or ""until you slip up"" conditions. Believe & trust in Christ's sin‑atoning death & resurrection & you have - present tense, right now, everlasting life.

Jn 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life
(NOTE: Believers have eternal life right now.)

Christ: The Author & Finisher of Faith

Heb 12:2 Looking to Jesus the author & finisher of our faith;
(NOTE: He begins it & He completes it.)

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, """that we might be justified by the faith """OF""" Christ""", & not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified
(NOTE: Justification = God judicially declaring us righteous because of Christ's obedience, not ours.)

2 Thes 3:3 The Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil
(NOTE: We stand by His faithfulness, not our performance.)

Ephesians 2: Grace Saves, Faith Receives, Works Follow

Eph 2:
8 For it is by grace [God’s remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been saved [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God;

9 not as a result of [your] works [nor your attempts to keep the Law], so that no one will [be able to] boast or take credit in any way [for his salvation]
(NOTE: Vs 8 Grace is a compassionate GIFT from God (you are a sinner that deserves death - Rom 6:23) His Grace enables you to access Christ's sin atonement. Vs 9 No works are involved/allowed beyond faith placed in Christ's work. So its all about how great He is, not how great we think might think our works are)

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works
(NOTE: Works follow salvation - they never produce it.)

Rom 16:26 Now revealed & made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, ""so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience"" ""that comes from faith""
(NOTE: Faith produces obedience - not the other way around.)

Jude 24 To him that is able to keep you from falling & present you faultless before the presence of his glory with great joy
(NOTE: Jesus is our Advocate, - 1 Jn 2:1 & Heb 9:15 — He is also the One to whom all judgment has been given — Jn 5:22, 27. The One who defends you is the same One who judges you. Verdict for the believer: NOT GUILTY)

Acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.
(NOTE: That saving name is Jesus the Christ.)

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.
(NOTE: Grace appeared in Christ Himself - grace has a name.)

GRACE HAS A NAME — JESUS THE CHRIST

So we don't have to do nothing to be saved, just grace.

What did JESUS HIMSELF say?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

JESUS said can not enter Heaven without both, you say we don't need either one!

And Peter the one JESUS gave the keys to Heaven?

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Did the whole world miss something?

Did Peter pass of the keys to Heaven to you?

Ouch · Sunday at 2:07 AM

HeIsHere said:
Well done!

The Good News of Christ Jesus.
Saved is saved.

So we don't have to do nothing to be saved, just grace.

What did JESUS HIMSELF say?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

You agree with the flying dove guy, we don't have to do nothing?

And Peter the one JESUS gave the keys to Heaven?

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Did the whole world miss something?

Did Peter pass of the keys to Heaven to flying dove?

GWH · Sunday at 3:49 AM

Ouch said:
So we don't have to do nothing to be saved, just grace.

What did JESUS HIMSELF say?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

JESUS said can not enter Heaven without both, you say we don't need either one!

And Peter the one JESUS gave the keys to Heaven?

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Did the whole world miss something?

Did Peter pass of the keys to Heaven to you?

Well, don't miss where Jesus indicated all believers have the keys: Matt. 18:18 & John 20:22-23.

Ouch · Sunday at 4:04 AM

GWH said:
Well, don't miss where Jesus indicated all believers have the keys: Matt. 18:18 & John 20:22-23.

Morning, what does Matthew have to do being reborn?

Matthew 18:18
King James Version
18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Same with John ?

John 20:22-23
King James Version
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Are you implying your a JESUS disciple and HE blew on you?

My question was,

What did JESUS HIMSELF say?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

JESUS said can not enter Heaven without both, you say we don't need either one!

And Peter the one JESUS gave the keys to Heaven?

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Did the whole world miss something?

Did Peter pass of the keys to Heaven to you or the flying dove guy?

FlyingDove · Sunday at 8:00 AM

Three Misused Water Baptism Texts & the Spirit-Wrought Realities They Actually Describe

John 3:1 (KJV): “a ruler of the Jews” Nicodemus wasn't confused about Jewish water purification rituals. He was confused about re-entering the womb (Jn 3:4).

Jn 3:5 cannot be about Christian water baptism because it is spoken before the cross, before Pentecost, before the Church & before Christian baptism even existed.

Jesus immediately defines His own terms: Verse 6, that which is ""born of the flesh is flesh"" & that which is ""born of the Spirit is spirit"" (Jn 3:6). The contrast is natural birth vs. Spirit birth, not water baptism vs. Spirit baptism. Jesus clarifies by distinguishing physical birth Vs6 (a fetus is surrounded by water/amniotic fluid) from spiritual birth (regeneration by the Holy Spirit).

Jesus is not introducing water baptism. Jesus is distinguishing TWO BIRTHS!

The apostles preached remission through faith in His name (Acts 10:43 & Rom 10:13), justification by His blood (Rom 3:25) & sealing by the Holy Spirit at the moment of belief (Eph 1:13).

Water is an act obedience that flows from faith (Rom 1:5 & 16:26), not the mechanism of salvation.

Galatians 3:27 Misused Water-Baptism Text Detected & Here's What the Passage Actually Teaches

Galatians 3:27 cannot refer to water baptism because the entire chapter is a contrast between FAITH & ""works of the Law"". Paul never introduces water anywhere in the chapter. Paul begins by asking how the Galatians received the Holy Spirit, ""by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?"" (3:2). Every saving blessing in the chapter—receiving the Holy Spirit, justification, sonship, inheritance-comes only through FAITH & is applied by the Holy Spirit (3:6–9, 14, 22, 26). The chapter’s exclusive focus is on FAITH & SPIRIT. The word water appears ZERO times in chapter 3 making a water-baptism interpretation contextually impossible.

Romans 6:3 Misused Water-Baptism Text Detected & Here’s What the Passage Actually Teaches

Romans 6:3 does not be refer to water baptism, the entire chapter describes a Spirit-wrought union with Christ that water cannot accomplish. The word water appears ZERO times in the chapter & Paul never commands a ritual or ties any of these realities to human action. Instead, every key verse points to regeneration & spiritual transformation: being ""baptized INTO Christ"" (Vs3–4) is Paul's consistent In-Christ positional language, signifying union with His death & resurrection, the impartation of ""newness of life,"" which only the Holy Spirit gives. Being ""united with Him"" (Vs5) reflects a new identity, not a physical act. The ""old self crucified"" & being ""freed from sin"" (Vs6–7) describe internal transformation, not symbolic immersion. Counting oneself ""dead to sin & alive to God"" (Vs11–13). Living under grace rather than sin's dominion (Vs14) are the fruits of regeneration, not the effects of water.

Paul explains elsewhere how this union happens: ""By the HOLY SPIRIT were ALL are Holy Spirit baptized into one body"" (1 Cor 12:13). Believers are justified (Rom 5:1) & sealed with the Holy Spirit the moment they believe (Eph 1:13–14). This matches the ""circumcision made without hands"" (Col 2:11). A spiritual operation only Christ can perform, which Paul identifies as the true New Covenant initiation. Under the Old Covenant, initiation was physical circumcision, a ritual performed by human hands. Under the New Covenant, initiation is spiritual baptism, a work only Jesus can perform through the Holy Spirit.

Romans chapter 6 is about the believer's new identity, spiritual rebirth & union with Christ, all accomplished by the Holy Spirit. Nothing in the chapter's language, logic, or vocabulary allows for water baptism. The BAPTISM of Romans 6:3 textually must be understood as Christ's baptism of the Holy Spirit, placing the believer into His Body & raising them to newness of life.

lrs68 · Sunday at 8:20 AM

Ask = shall be given
Seek = shall find
Knock = shall be opened

All predicate must have Faith first.

God's Grace = placing Himself upon the Cross.

My Salvation = believing in Jesus [by following and obeying] (whosoever believeth) which is the act of obeying the Father.

Ouch · Sunday at 8:47 AM

FlyingDove said:
Three Misused Water Baptism Texts & the Spirit-Wrought Realities They Actually Describe

John 3:1 (KJV): “a ruler of the Jews” Nicodemus wasn't confused about Jewish water purification rituals. He was confused about re-entering the womb (Jn 3:4).

Jn 3:5 cannot be about Christian water baptism because it is spoken before the cross, before Pentecost, before the Church & before Christian baptism even existed.

Jesus immediately defines His own terms: Verse 6, that which is ""born of the flesh is flesh"" & that which is ""born of the Spirit is spirit"" (Jn 3:6). The contrast is natural birth vs. Spirit birth, not water baptism vs. Spirit baptism. Jesus clarifies by distinguishing physical birth Vs6 (a fetus is surrounded by water/amniotic fluid) from spiritual birth (regeneration by the Holy Spirit).

Jesus is not introducing water baptism. Jesus is distinguishing TWO BIRTHS!

The apostles preached remission through faith in His name (Acts 10:43 & Rom 10:13), justification by His blood (Rom 3:25) & sealing by the Holy Spirit at the moment of belief (Eph 1:13).

Water is an act obedience that flows from faith (Rom 1:5 & 16:26), not the mechanism of salvation.

Galatians 3:27 Misused Water-Baptism Text Detected & Here's What the Passage Actually Teaches

Galatians 3:27 cannot refer to water baptism because the entire chapter is a contrast between FAITH & ""works of the Law"". Paul never introduces water anywhere in the chapter. Paul begins by asking how the Galatians received the Holy Spirit, ""by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?"" (3:2). Every saving blessing in the chapter—receiving the Holy Spirit, justification, sonship, inheritance-comes only through FAITH & is applied by the Holy Spirit (3:6–9, 14, 22, 26). The chapter’s exclusive focus is on FAITH & SPIRIT. The word water appears ZERO times in chapter 3 making a water-baptism interpretation contextually impossible.

Romans 6:3 Misused Water-Baptism Text Detected & Here’s What the Passage Actually Teaches

Romans 6:3 does not be refer to water baptism, the entire chapter describes a Spirit-wrought union with Christ that water cannot accomplish. The word water appears ZERO times in the chapter & Paul never commands a ritual or ties any of these realities to human action. Instead, every key verse points to regeneration & spiritual transformation: being ""baptized INTO Christ"" (Vs3–4) is Paul's consistent In-Christ positional language, signifying union with His death & resurrection, the impartation of ""newness of life,"" which only the Holy Spirit gives. Being ""united with Him"" (Vs5) reflects a new identity, not a physical act. The ""old self crucified"" & being ""freed from sin"" (Vs6–7) describe internal transformation, not symbolic immersion. Counting oneself ""dead to sin & alive to God"" (Vs11–13). Living under grace rather than sin's dominion (Vs14) are the fruits of regeneration, not the effects of water.

Paul explains elsewhere how this union happens: ""By the HOLY SPIRIT were ALL are Holy Spirit baptized into one body"" (1 Cor 12:13). Believers are justified (Rom 5:1) & sealed with the Holy Spirit the moment they believe (Eph 1:13–14). This matches the ""circumcision made without hands"" (Col 2:11). A spiritual operation only Christ can perform, which Paul identifies as the true New Covenant initiation. Under the Old Covenant, initiation was physical circumcision, a ritual performed by human hands. Under the New Covenant, initiation is spiritual baptism, a work only Jesus can perform through the Holy Spirit.

Romans chapter 6 is about the believer's new identity, spiritual rebirth & union with Christ, all accomplished by the Holy Spirit. Nothing in the chapter's language, logic, or vocabulary allows for water baptism. The BAPTISM of Romans 6:3 textually must be understood as Christ's baptism of the Holy Spirit, placing the believer into His Body & raising them to newness of life.

Yea, it is kinda crazy how we can think that we can go back in our mothers womb.

Did you ever hear about John the baptist who introduced being bapitzed for remisson of sins 3 PLUS years before the day of Pentecost?

Yep, verse 6 JESUS is clear there is a differnce between natural and spiritual.

What did JESUS HIMSELF say?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

JESUS said can not enter Heaven without both, you say we don't need either one!

And Peter the one JESUS gave the keys to Heaven?

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Did the whole world miss something?

Did Peter pass of the keys to Heaven to you?

Ouch · Sunday at 10:21 AM

FlyingDove said:
Three Misused Water Baptism Texts & the Spirit-Wrought Realities They Actually Describe

John 3:1 (KJV): “a ruler of the Jews” Nicodemus wasn't confused about Jewish water purification rituals. He was confused about re-entering the womb (Jn 3:4).

Jn 3:5 cannot be about Christian water baptism because it is spoken before the cross, before Pentecost, before the Church & before Christian baptism even existed.

Jesus immediately defines His own terms: Verse 6, that which is ""born of the flesh is flesh"" & that which is ""born of the Spirit is spirit"" (Jn 3:6). The contrast is natural birth vs. Spirit birth, not water baptism vs. Spirit baptism. Jesus clarifies by distinguishing physical birth Vs6 (a fetus is surrounded by water/amniotic fluid) from spiritual birth (regeneration by the Holy Spirit).

Jesus is not introducing water baptism. Jesus is distinguishing TWO BIRTHS!

The apostles preached remission through faith in His name (Acts 10:43 & Rom 10:13), justification by His blood (Rom 3:25) & sealing by the Holy Spirit at the moment of belief (Eph 1:13).

Water is an act obedience that flows from faith (Rom 1:5 & 16:26), not the mechanism of salvation.

Galatians 3:27 Misused Water-Baptism Text Detected & Here's What the Passage Actually Teaches

Galatians 3:27 cannot refer to water baptism because the entire chapter is a contrast between FAITH & ""works of the Law"". Paul never introduces water anywhere in the chapter. Paul begins by asking how the Galatians received the Holy Spirit, ""by works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?"" (3:2). Every saving blessing in the chapter—receiving the Holy Spirit, justification, sonship, inheritance-comes only through FAITH & is applied by the Holy Spirit (3:6–9, 14, 22, 26). The chapter’s exclusive focus is on FAITH & SPIRIT. The word water appears ZERO times in chapter 3 making a water-baptism interpretation contextually impossible.

Romans 6:3 Misused Water-Baptism Text Detected & Here’s What the Passage Actually Teaches

Romans 6:3 does not be refer to water baptism, the entire chapter describes a Spirit-wrought union with Christ that water cannot accomplish. The word water appears ZERO times in the chapter & Paul never commands a ritual or ties any of these realities to human action. Instead, every key verse points to regeneration & spiritual transformation: being ""baptized INTO Christ"" (Vs3–4) is Paul's consistent In-Christ positional language, signifying union with His death & resurrection, the impartation of ""newness of life,"" which only the Holy Spirit gives. Being ""united with Him"" (Vs5) reflects a new identity, not a physical act. The ""old self crucified"" & being ""freed from sin"" (Vs6–7) describe internal transformation, not symbolic immersion. Counting oneself ""dead to sin & alive to God"" (Vs11–13). Living under grace rather than sin's dominion (Vs14) are the fruits of regeneration, not the effects of water.

Paul explains elsewhere how this union happens: ""By the HOLY SPIRIT were ALL are Holy Spirit baptized into one body"" (1 Cor 12:13). Believers are justified (Rom 5:1) & sealed with the Holy Spirit the moment they believe (Eph 1:13–14). This matches the ""circumcision made without hands"" (Col 2:11). A spiritual operation only Christ can perform, which Paul identifies as the true New Covenant initiation. Under the Old Covenant, initiation was physical circumcision, a ritual performed by human hands. Under the New Covenant, initiation is spiritual baptism, a work only Jesus can perform through the Holy Spirit.

Romans chapter 6 is about the believer's new identity, spiritual rebirth & union with Christ, all accomplished by the Holy Spirit. Nothing in the chapter's language, logic, or vocabulary allows for water baptism. The BAPTISM of Romans 6:3 textually must be understood as Christ's baptism of the Holy Spirit, placing the believer into His Body & raising them to newness of life.

If in John 3:5, JESUS didn't mean we need to be baptized to remove our sins and we need to be filled with the Holy Ghost like HE told HIS disciples to wait for in Acts 1 and they were filled in Acts 2:4.

Can you explain what you say HE was saying???

Jesus clarifies by distinguishing physical birth Vs6 (a fetus is surrounded by water/amniotic fluid) from spiritual birth (regeneration by the Holy Spirit).

Are you saying that when we are born naturaly, we get regenerated by the Holy Spirit??

If you could explain what your saying that would be great.

Thank you in advance.

FlyingDove · Sunday at 12:34 PM

Acts 2 Peter is preaching to Israel alone - ""Men of Judea,"" ""all who dwell in Jerusalem,"" ""Men of Israel"" at a Jewish feast, in a Jewish city, fulfilling a Jewish prophecy, under Jewish COVENANT LAWS.

Gentiles were never under Israel's purification system, part of John's water baptism or the Mosaic covenant (Eph 2:12). Ten years after Pentecost God opens salvations door to Gentiles in Acts 10, He does not repeat the Acts 2 order - He reverses it.

The Holy Spirit/SALVATION falls on Cornelius' household while Peter is still preaching (Acts 10:44) BEFORE ANY WATER!

The Holy Spirit is Gods Gift of Eternal Life. You can't change recorded scripture:

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
(NOTE: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Also see Mat 3:11, Lk 3:16 & Jn 1:33)

2 Tim 1:14 Refers to the Holy Spirit as a Good Deposit.

2 Cor 5:5, Eph 1:14 & 2 Cor 1:22. Refer to the Holy Spirit as "the earnest" = Deposit or Pledge.

Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30 Refer to the Holy Spirit as a Seal.

2 Tim 1:14 The Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit dwelling within us. Is God's good deposit given us until the day of redemption)

2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit
(NOTE: God's Holy Spirit dwelling within us is the earnest. the Earnest is God's Holy Spirit DEPOSIT/PLEDGE & ETERNAL LIFE SEAL)

2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts
(NOTE: God has placed His Holy Spirit in the believers heart. As a DEPOSIT/PLEDGE & SEAL, until the soon coming day of our final redemption)

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(NOTE: When you heard & believed/trusted Christ He sealed/baptized you with His Holy Spirit).

Eph1:14 Which is the "earnest" of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit by which only Christ baptizes/seals & indwells us. Is God's earnest = a down payment/pledge)

Eph 4:30 grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are "sealed" unto the day of redemption
(NOTE: Believers are SEALED with God's Holy Spirit. Christ's pledge/promise that he will come for us)

GENTILES RECEIVE GODS ETERNAL LIFE GIVING HOLY SPIRIT - BEFORE WATER! - Peter explains the process:

Acts 10:
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
(NOTE: Vs44, Gentiles RECEIVE Gods Eternal Life Gift-the Holy Spirit - BEFORE WATER!. Vs47, Gentiles HAVE received Gods Eternal Life Gift-the Holy Spirit. - BEFORE WATER!)

Acts 11: Peter says
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
(NOTE: Vs16, Jesus alone baptizes with/in/by His Eternal Giving Holy Spirit. Vs18, GOD GAVE the Gentiles the same Salvation SEALING-Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14, FOREVER INDWELLING (Jn 14:16), REPENTANCE GRANTING Holy Spirit- SAVED-SEALED-FORGIVEN-BY FAITH ALONE-BEFORE WATER!)

That is the dispensational shift - from a Jewish, water-mediated reception of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 to a universal, faith-based Spirit baptism in Acts 10.

This is exactly how Gentiles become the fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham that he would be the father of many nations (Gen 17:5; Gal 3:8, 14). Not through rituals, but through faith.

Peter preached Jesus death & resurrection in Acts 2 & Acts 10. Same gospel message Paul preached (1 Cor 15:1-4 & Rom 10:9-10). But God changes the Holy Spirit administration from "repent from breaking covenant & be water baptized to receive the Holy Sprit.

Gentiles were never under any Mosaic covenants (Eph 2:12) During Peters message God changes the previous Holy Spirit' administering from repent, be water baptized & receive the Holy Spirit to ""hear, believe, receive the H/S, then be water baptized.""

Scripture is clear: at Cornelius' house the baptism protocol is inverted - Holy Spirit 1st upon belief/faith, then water & that's the universal order for the Body of Christ.

Ouch · Sunday at 1:05 PM

FlyingDove said:
Acts 2 Peter is preaching to Israel alone - ""Men of Judea,"" ""all who dwell in Jerusalem,"" ""Men of Israel"" at a Jewish feast, in a Jewish city, fulfilling a Jewish prophecy, under Jewish COVENANT LAWS.

Gentiles were never under Israel's purification system, part of John's water baptism or the Mosaic covenant (Eph 2:12). Ten years after Pentecost God opens salvations door to Gentiles in Acts 10, He does not repeat the Acts 2 order - He reverses it.

The Holy Spirit/SALVATION falls on Cornelius' household while Peter is still preaching (Acts 10:44) BEFORE ANY WATER!

The Holy Spirit is Gods Gift of Eternal Life. You can't change recorded scripture:

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
(NOTE: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Also see Mat 3:11, Lk 3:16 & Jn 1:33)

2 Tim 1:14 Refers to the Holy Spirit as a Good Deposit.

2 Cor 5:5, Eph 1:14 & 2 Cor 1:22. Refer to the Holy Spirit as "the earnest" = Deposit or Pledge.

Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30 Refer to the Holy Spirit as a Seal.

2 Tim 1:14 The Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit dwelling within us. Is God's good deposit given us until the day of redemption)

2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit
(NOTE: God's Holy Spirit dwelling within us is the earnest. the Earnest is God's Holy Spirit DEPOSIT/PLEDGE & ETERNAL LIFE SEAL)

2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts
(NOTE: God has placed His Holy Spirit in the believers heart. As a DEPOSIT/PLEDGE & SEAL, until the soon coming day of our final redemption)

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(NOTE: When you heard & believed/trusted Christ He sealed/baptized you with His Holy Spirit).

Eph1:14 Which is the "earnest" of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit by which only Christ baptizes/seals & indwells us. Is God's earnest = a down payment/pledge)

Eph 4:30 grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are "sealed" unto the day of redemption
(NOTE: Believers are SEALED with God's Holy Spirit. Christ's pledge/promise that he will come for us)

GENTILES RECEIVE GODS ETERNAL LIFE GIVING HOLY SPIRIT - BEFORE WATER! - Peter explains the process:

Acts 10:
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
(NOTE: Vs44, Gentiles RECEIVE Gods Eternal Life Gift-the Holy Spirit - BEFORE WATER!. Vs47, Gentiles HAVE received Gods Eternal Life Gift-the Holy Spirit. - BEFORE WATER!)

Acts 11: Peter says
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
(NOTE: Vs16, Jesus alone baptizes with/in/by His Eternal Giving Holy Spirit. Vs18, GOD GAVE the Gentiles the same Salvation SEALING-Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14, FOREVER INDWELLING (Jn 14:16), REPENTANCE GRANTING Holy Spirit- SAVED-SEALED-FORGIVEN-BY FAITH ALONE-BEFORE WATER!)

That is the dispensational shift - from a Jewish, water-mediated reception of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 to a universal, faith-based Spirit baptism in Acts 10.

This is exactly how Gentiles become the fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham that he would be the father of many nations (Gen 17:5; Gal 3:8, 14). Not through rituals, but through faith.

Peter preached Jesus death & resurrection in Acts 2 & Acts 10. Same gospel message Paul preached (1 Cor 15:1-4 & Rom 10:9-10). But God changes the Holy Spirit administration from "repent from breaking covenant & be water baptized to receive the Holy Sprit.

Gentiles were never under any Mosaic covenants (Eph 2:12) During Peters message God changes the previous Holy Spirit' administering from repent, be water baptized & receive the Holy Spirit to ""hear, believe, receive the H/S, then be water baptized.""

Scripture is clear: at Cornelius' house the baptism protocol is inverted - Holy Spirit 1st upon belief/faith, then water & that's the universal order for the Body of Christ.

Do you have me on ignore?

Ouch · Sunday at 4:39 PM

FlyingDove said:
Acts 2 Peter is preaching to Israel alone - ""Men of Judea,"" ""all who dwell in Jerusalem,"" ""Men of Israel"" at a Jewish feast, in a Jewish city, fulfilling a Jewish prophecy, under Jewish COVENANT LAWS.

Gentiles were never under Israel's purification system, part of John's water baptism or the Mosaic covenant (Eph 2:12). Ten years after Pentecost God opens salvations door to Gentiles in Acts 10, He does not repeat the Acts 2 order - He reverses it.

The Holy Spirit/SALVATION falls on Cornelius' household while Peter is still preaching (Acts 10:44) BEFORE ANY WATER!

The Holy Spirit is Gods Gift of Eternal Life. You can't change recorded scripture:

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
(NOTE: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Also see Mat 3:11, Lk 3:16 & Jn 1:33)

2 Tim 1:14 Refers to the Holy Spirit as a Good Deposit.

2 Cor 5:5, Eph 1:14 & 2 Cor 1:22. Refer to the Holy Spirit as "the earnest" = Deposit or Pledge.

Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:22 & Eph 4:30 Refer to the Holy Spirit as a Seal.

2 Tim 1:14 The Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit dwelling within us. Is God's good deposit given us until the day of redemption)

2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit
(NOTE: God's Holy Spirit dwelling within us is the earnest. the Earnest is God's Holy Spirit DEPOSIT/PLEDGE & ETERNAL LIFE SEAL)

2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts
(NOTE: God has placed His Holy Spirit in the believers heart. As a DEPOSIT/PLEDGE & SEAL, until the soon coming day of our final redemption)

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(NOTE: When you heard & believed/trusted Christ He sealed/baptized you with His Holy Spirit).

Eph1:14 Which is the "earnest" of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit by which only Christ baptizes/seals & indwells us. Is God's earnest = a down payment/pledge)

Eph 4:30 grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are "sealed" unto the day of redemption
(NOTE: Believers are SEALED with God's Holy Spirit. Christ's pledge/promise that he will come for us)

GENTILES RECEIVE GODS ETERNAL LIFE GIVING HOLY SPIRIT - BEFORE WATER! - Peter explains the process:

Acts 10:
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
(NOTE: Vs44, Gentiles RECEIVE Gods Eternal Life Gift-the Holy Spirit - BEFORE WATER!. Vs47, Gentiles HAVE received Gods Eternal Life Gift-the Holy Spirit. - BEFORE WATER!)

Acts 11: Peter says
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
(NOTE: Vs16, Jesus alone baptizes with/in/by His Eternal Giving Holy Spirit. Vs18, GOD GAVE the Gentiles the same Salvation SEALING-Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14, FOREVER INDWELLING (Jn 14:16), REPENTANCE GRANTING Holy Spirit- SAVED-SEALED-FORGIVEN-BY FAITH ALONE-BEFORE WATER!)

That is the dispensational shift - from a Jewish, water-mediated reception of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 to a universal, faith-based Spirit baptism in Acts 10.

This is exactly how Gentiles become the fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham that he would be the father of many nations (Gen 17:5; Gal 3:8, 14). Not through rituals, but through faith.

Peter preached Jesus death & resurrection in Acts 2 & Acts 10. Same gospel message Paul preached (1 Cor 15:1-4 & Rom 10:9-10). But God changes the Holy Spirit administration from "repent from breaking covenant & be water baptized to receive the Holy Sprit.

Gentiles were never under any Mosaic covenants (Eph 2:12) During Peters message God changes the previous Holy Spirit' administering from repent, be water baptized & receive the Holy Spirit to ""hear, believe, receive the H/S, then be water baptized.""

Scripture is clear: at Cornelius' house the baptism protocol is inverted - Holy Spirit 1st upon belief/faith, then water & that's the universal order for the Body of Christ.

Question, are you saying the Gentiles were reborn the same way the Jews plus others in Acts 2?

The only difference is JESUS filled the Gentiles with the Holy Ghost first?

Is that what you call were saved by grace?

FlyingDove · Sunday at 10:21 PM

KJV Dictionary Definition: GRACE
9) Eternal life; final salvation. 1 Pet.1.13. - (10.) Favor; mercy; pardon. Also see - https://biblehub.com/topical/g/grace.htm

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(NOTE All have sinned & the wage owed is DEATH)

Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(NOTE: God GAVE His Son)

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

Jesus is the grace of God. We access God's grace by faith (Rom 5:1-2, Eph 2:8-9) No works, no rituals. By Faith calling on Jesus to be Lord of our Life, trusting in Him/His faithful, obedient sin atoning work that remits our sin & His resurrection which brings new life.

From Acts 10 until now God's eternal life GIFT/not earned (Rom 6:23, Jn 5:24) GIVEN/not earned (Rom 3:24, 4:16, 5:1-2, 15, "11:6" "Eph 2:5 & 8"). By Gods grace/Jesus upon faith in Jesus death & resurrection.

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, when you heard the word of truth, the good news of your salvation, and [as a result] believed in Him, were stamped with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit [the One promised by Christ] as owned and protected [by God].

There is the body of Christs salvation/eternal life sequence > They Heard > Believe & Receive the GIFT (Acts 10:45, 11:17) of Gods forever eternal life sealing (Jn 14:16, Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5) Holy Spirit

Ouch · Monday at 1:34 PM

FlyingDove said:
KJV Dictionary Definition: GRACE
9) Eternal life; final salvation. 1 Pet.1.13. - (10.) Favor; mercy; pardon. Also see - https://biblehub.com/topical/g/grace.htm

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(NOTE All have sinned & the wage owed is DEATH)

Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(NOTE: God GAVE His Son)

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

Jesus is the grace of God. We access God's grace by faith (Rom 5:1-2, Eph 2:8-9) No works, no rituals. By Faith calling on Jesus to be Lord of our Life, trusting in Him/His faithful, obedient sin atoning work that remits our sin & His resurrection which brings new life.

From Acts 10 until now God's eternal life GIFT/not earned (Rom 6:23, Jn 5:24) GIVEN/not earned (Rom 3:24, 4:16, 5:1-2, 15, "11:6" "Eph 2:5 & 8"). By Gods grace/Jesus upon faith in Jesus death & resurrection.

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, when you heard the word of truth, the good news of your salvation, and [as a result] believed in Him, were stamped with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit [the One promised by Christ] as owned and protected [by God].

There is the body of Christs salvation/eternal life sequence > They Heard > Believe & Receive the GIFT (Acts 10:45, 11:17) of Gods forever eternal life sealing (Jn 14:16, Eph 1:13-14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5) Holy Spirit

KJV OF GRACE!!

what does the name john mean in hebrew?

AI Overview

In Hebrew, the name John originates from Yochanan (יוֹחָנָן), which means "God is gracious," "Yahweh is merciful," or "graced by Yahweh". It is a theophoric name combining "Yo" (a shortened form of YHWH/Yahweh) and "chanan" (to show favor or be gracious).

GOD GRACIOUSLY GIVES US WATER TO BE BAPTIZED IN TO REMOVE OUR SINS.

Sad not many receive HIS grace.

Ouch · Monday at 1:35 PM

KJV OF GRACE!!

what does the name john mean in hebrew?

AI Overview

In Hebrew, the name John originates from Yochanan (יוֹחָנָן), which means "God is gracious," "Yahweh is merciful," or "graced by Yahweh". It is a theophoric name combining "Yo" (a shortened form of YHWH/Yahweh) and "chanan" (to show favor or be gracious).

GOD GRACIOUSLY GIVES US WATER TO BE BAPTIZED IN TO REMOVE OUR SINS.

Sad not many receive HIS grace.

Nedsk · Monday at 1:54 PM

FlyingDove said:
You're blending two categories the apostles always keep distinct: how we are saved & how saved people live.

Scripture never defines faith as obedience, nor obedience as the way to obtain eternal life. Jesus says eternal life is received the moment one believes (Jn 3:16, 3:18, 3:36; Jn 6:47). Paul says we are justified ""apart from works"" (Rom 3:28), ""not of works"" (Eph 2:9) & ""not by works of righteousness which we have done"" (Titus 3:5).

Romans 2:13 describes what the Law demands - not how anyone is saved - which is why Paul immediately concludes that no one is justified by doing it (Rom 3:20).

Hebrews 5:9 doesn't say obedience produces salvation; it says Christ is the source of salvation & those who obey are simply those who have already believed Him (Rom 1:5; 16:26).

Works follow salvation (Eph 2:10), but they never produce it. Grace trains believers after they are saved (Titus 2:11–12), not as the condition for receiving salvation. The apostles preach one order: grace > faith > salvation > obedience, never the reverse.

How saved people live is a choice. If faith alone was sufficient it wouldn't need completion as James teaches us. If works are not a choice and are a result of faith why would Paul have had to urge christians to do good works?

FlyingDove · Monday at 2:25 PM

Nedsk said:
How saved people live is a choice. If faith alone was sufficient it wouldn't need completion as James teaches us. If works are not a choice and are a result of faith why would Paul have had to urge christians to do good works?

The reason Paul urges Christians to do good works is the same reason James says faith is ""completed"" by works: not because works cause salvation, but because works express & mature the faith that already saved them.

You're blending 2 categories the apostles always keep distinct: How we are saved & How saved people live.

Paul is crystal clear on the 1st category: Justified apart from works (Rom 3:28), Not of works (Eph 2:9), Not by works of righteousness which we have done (Titus 3:5).

Paul urges believers to do good works, because exhortation is part of sanctification, not justification. Saved people still need teaching, correction, encouragement & discipline. Paul also urges Christians not to lie, not to grieve the Holy Spirit, not to quarrel, not to be anxious & to forgive one another. None of those commands imply that forgiveness, peace, or Jesus Christ' Holy Spirit baptism that seals eternal life depends on our performance.

He never says works produce salvation. He says works demonstrate & mature the faith that already exists. Just like fruit proves a tree is alive but does not make it alive.

The biblical pattern is consistent: Grace > Faith > Salvation > Obedience. Never the reverse. Paul urges good works because believers are saved, not so they can become saved.

Nedsk · Monday at 2:55 PM

FlyingDove said:
The reason Paul urges Christians to do good works is the same reason James says faith is ""completed"" by works: not because works cause salvation, but because works express & mature the faith that already saved them.

You're blending 2 categories the apostles always keep distinct: How we are saved & How saved people live.

Paul is crystal clear on the 1st category: Justified apart from works (Rom 3:28), Not of works (Eph 2:9), Not by works of righteousness which we have done (Titus 3:5).

Paul urges believers to do good works, because exhortation is part of sanctification, not justification. Saved people still need teaching, correction, encouragement & discipline. Paul also urges Christians not to lie, not to grieve the Holy Spirit, not to quarrel, not to be anxious & to forgive one another. None of those commands imply that forgiveness, peace, or Jesus Christ' Holy Spirit baptism that seals eternal life depends on our performance.

He never says works produce salvation. He says works demonstrate & mature the faith that already exists. Just like fruit proves a tree is alive but does not make it alive.

The biblical pattern is consistent: Grace > Faith > Salvation > Obedience. Never the reverse. Paul urges good works because believers are saved, not so they can become saved.

I never claimed works cause salvation. This is the problem when talking to you people. You reply to what is in your head and not what is actually said. Maybe try reading what I actually wrote rather than what you think I wrote. Some people hear or see the word "works" and canned rote memorization responses start to fly even though they might not have anything to do with what was actually said.

FlyingDove · Monday at 8:26 PM

Nedsk said:
I never claimed works cause salvation. This is the problem when talking to you people. You reply to what is in your head and not what is actually said. Maybe try reading what I actually wrote rather than what you think I wrote. Some people hear or see the word "works" and canned rote memorization responses start to fly even though they might not have anything to do with what was actually said.

Any doctrine built on one or two verses will always collapse when the rest of Scripture is allowed to speak.

Context is the cure for confusion & James 2 is no exception.

When the whole counsel of Scripture is allowed to speak, it becomes clear that James is addressing the visibility of faith before men, not the basis of justification before God. James defines his own category when he says, ""Show me your faith & I will show you my faith by my works"" (James 2:18), which is the language of demonstration, not salvation.

Paul, by contrast, speaks of justification before God & states without qualification that ""a man is justified by faith apart from works"" (Rom 3:28), that God ""justifies the ungodly"" through faith alone (Rom 4:5) & that salvation is "not by works of righteousness which we have done"" (Tit 3:5).

Scripture identifies Jesus Himself as ""the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus"" (Romans 3:26), leaving no room for works to complete or contribute to justification.

Paul appeals to Abraham's Genesis 15 belief as the moment of justification. Decades later James appeals to Abraham's Genesis 22 as the evidence of faith. Two different moments, two different audiences, two different categories.

When James is read in his own context, a Jewish wisdom letter correcting hypocrisy among Jewish believers & Paul is read in his, the harmony is unmistakable: we are justified before God by faith alone & justified before men by the works that faith inevitably produces.

2ndTimeIsTheCharm · Monday at 9:18 PM

FlyingDove said:
Any doctrine built on one or two verses will always collapse when the rest of Scripture is allowed to speak.

Context is the cure for confusion & James 2 is no exception.

When the whole counsel of Scripture is allowed to speak, it becomes clear that James is addressing the visibility of faith before men, not the basis of justification before God. James defines his own category when he says, ""Show me your faith & I will show you my faith by my works"" (James 2:18), which is the language of demonstration, not salvation.

Paul, by contrast, speaks of justification before God & states without qualification that ""a man is justified by faith apart from works"" (Rom 3:28), that God ""justifies the ungodly"" through faith alone (Rom 4:5) & that salvation is "not by works of righteousness which we have done"" (Tit 3:5).

Scripture identifies Jesus Himself as ""the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus"" (Romans 3:26), leaving no room for works to complete or contribute to justification.

Paul appeals to Abraham's Genesis 15 belief as the moment of justification. Decades later James appeals to Abraham's Genesis 22 as the evidence of faith. Two different moments, two different audiences, two different categories.

When James is read in his own context, a Jewish wisdom letter correcting hypocrisy among Jewish believers & Paul is read in his, the harmony is unmistakable: we are justified before God by faith alone & justified before men by the works that faith inevitably produces.

But you're ignoring scripture too that you don't like. You have to take everything the Bible says, because everything God has put in the Bible harmonizes, even the ones that seem to conflict with each other.

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Grace Saves, Faith Receives, Christ Secures

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