So are you suggesting people should tithe? Can you be straight on that? Are you suggesting perhaps following other OT laws or obligations might also be followed? I mean why just stop at one?
Blessings from Tithing and Offerings
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So are you suggesting people should tithe? Can you be straight on that? Are you suggesting perhaps following other OT laws or obligations might also be followed? I mean why just stop at one?
The New Testament teaches that Jesus has fulfilled ALL of the law. The law came with a death sentence and the blood of animals never actually secured the forgiveness needed to proclaim us righteous before God who gave the commandments (law) to begin with.
Either you trust in Jesus or you don't. You cannot have it both ways. It's like people want to buy fire insurance by doing things they think might impress God. He is not impressed.
I think we are also supposed to keep our giving private. Give all you want, but do not make it an exchange as in 'I gave and God blessed me' That shows that giving a tithe is what secures blessing. That, is what so many 'word of faith' false teachers will preach and teach. From Oral Roberts on.
If the law is good, which scripture tells us, it is not because we love it so much, it is because God gave it. It is only good to us in Jesus otherwise, we are doomed.
I understand, and my intent is not to discourage discussion. I simply question the attribution of blessings to being a direct result of out actions that Scripture does not tell or even ask us to do.
God is good. Every blessing is from Him. It is dangerous to connect specific blessings with specific actions on our part where God has not explicitly connected them because it leads to performance or comparison.
You made the assertion; you support it. I will not accept a burden-of-proof reversal.
These days, 'Christianity' reminds me more and more of the book of Judges wherein everyone did what was right in their own eyes.
6 In those days there was no king in Israel. Everyone did what was right in his own eyes. Judges 17:6
But we have a King. We have Bibles galore in this country. And we have people who insist that if you don't 'keep the Sabbath' you are going to hell. We have peope who insist we must keep the 10 commandments and that is why God sent His Spirit; it was to help us keep the commandments. Well, why didn't God just do that to begin with instead of sending His only Son to die on our behalf?
I mean we have people all over the place wanting to take God's glory, saying they keep the commandments; saying they keep the Sabbath; saying the OT applies to believers just like to the Jews to whom God actually gave the commandments and we have false prophets spitting out nonsense and when their prophecies do not come true, well hey....everyone makes mistakes, right? Except that God tests everyone of us to see if we believe what He says or if we run after 'words' from liars who make money off of us.
Is this a rant? Nope. Just the truth that many will close their ears to.
6 In those days there was no king in Israel. Everyone did what was right in his own eyes. Judges 17:6
But we have a King. We have Bibles galore in this country. And we have people who insist that if you don't 'keep the Sabbath' you are going to hell. We have peope who insist we must keep the 10 commandments and that is why God sent His Spirit; it was to help us keep the commandments. Well, why didn't God just do that to begin with instead of sending His only Son to die on our behalf?
I mean we have people all over the place wanting to take God's glory, saying they keep the commandments; saying they keep the Sabbath; saying the OT applies to believers just like to the Jews to whom God actually gave the commandments and we have false prophets spitting out nonsense and when their prophecies do not come true, well hey....everyone makes mistakes, right? Except that God tests everyone of us to see if we believe what He says or if we run after 'words' from liars who make money off of us.
Is this a rant? Nope. Just the truth that many will close their ears to.
And my favorite of all? Just ignore all Paul wrote (a big portion of the NT) cause he was not 'authentic'. I guess Judas is a better bet there. If you ignore Paul, you can make up your very own gospel. And they do.
What does this have to do with tithing? Telling someone to tithe and God will bless you is a teaching of the false word of faith teachers. Remember the story of Annanias and his wife? Peter told them they could have just kept all the money from the sale of their property but since they lied to the Holy Spirit, they were dead in their sandals. Why didn't Peter say 'oh hey. Just give 10%. Would you like a refund?
What does this have to do with tithing? Telling someone to tithe and God will bless you is a teaching of the false word of faith teachers. Remember the story of Annanias and his wife? Peter told them they could have just kept all the money from the sale of their property but since they lied to the Holy Spirit, they were dead in their sandals. Why didn't Peter say 'oh hey. Just give 10%. Would you like a refund?
You know, if you had said there can be or even is blessing in giving, I could have agreed. BUT you start off the op with saying we are robbing God and under a curse if we don't give 10%. No? That's not what you are saying? Are you a prophet?
smh
Here is your answer:
"it’s God’s provision to support his church (assertion 1). The tithe is actually a 10% return of 100% of his blessings (assertion 2)."
When you make an assertion, you carry the "burden of proof" to support that assertion. Your assertions do not stand on their own as "truth" without biblical evidence to support them. I asked you to provide that biblical evidence.
Average giving in the U.S. is 4.35% of income. Churches seem to get along just fine with this amount. Some more than others. Some get way more than they should. One church I attended suggested 5% to the local church and 5% to your choice of missions. Probably a good formula. Giving to other charitable groups is also a good idea. We donate over 10% of our timeshare points every year to a charitable organization for auction.
I have since I first read Abram tithing Melchizedk.
I did not " expect" any specific blessing, but Holy Spirit has
blessed me Spirit, Body, and Substance.
The New Testament does not mention giving tithes.
Which if it was very important it would have told us.
2Co 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
2Co 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
2Co 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
2Co 9:9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
2Co 9:10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness).
Jas 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
The love of money neglects the poor and needy which love is the fulfilling of the law.
And love is greater than faith.
God said that whatever a person purposes in their own heart to give that.
But the blessings they receive is not an abundance of money and material things.
If people become rich like TV evangelists it is not God blessing them.
And the money is supposed to go to the poor.
Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
The money given to the disciples were distributed to the poor and needy.
Not for the disciples to enjoy.
That is what the Church is supposed to do.
Act 20:33 I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.
Act 20:34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.
2Th 3:8 Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:
2Th 3:9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
Act 18:3 And because he was of the same craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by their occupation they were tentmakers.
Paul was not enjoying the money for himself but only for his needs food, water, and possibly clothing.
And would work for his needs and help other people.
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Jesus took the physical ordinances of Israel out of the way nailing them to His cross because they were contrary to us that they had no bearing on spiritual salvation.
Which I believe the tithes are included in that.
Money was not given but food to supply the needs of the Leviticus priesthood and not a blessing in monetary prosperity.
Paul and the disciples went by the same principle and the money was for the poor and needy.
Which it was 10 percent because the city of the Levites were many so more sustenance to supply their needs.
Which there was 48 cities for them located in tiny Israel so more sustenance needed to supply their needs.
But the preachers are not all located in a city but scattered everywhere.
And many have a large group of people they overlook.
And the preacher only gets his needs met by the congregation.
The saints are not required to buy his car, or house, or swimming pool, and birthdays, and vacations, and the such.
So they do not need 10 percent to supply their needs whether food or money.
And the money coming in is for the poor and needy.
Not for the preacher to enjoy for himself catering to their lusts.
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Mat 10:9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
Mat 10:10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
Everything we have is a gift from God ... God gives to us so we have to give to others. I give financially to the church I attend ... I believe in supporting the body of believers in the church, not only financially but in sharing God's Word, time spent with others, praying with others.
How about carrying around gift cards (coffee or fast-food gift cards) to hand out? My husband used to gather blankets and jackets, have them in his car to hand out to folks ... also he'd carry canned food or bottled water and give the food/water away. I have not thought about that for awhile ... I think I'll take a look around the house ...
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How about carrying around gift cards (coffee or fast-food gift cards) to hand out? My husband used to gather blankets and jackets, have them in his car to hand out to folks ... also he'd carry canned food or bottled water and give the food/water away. I have not thought about that for awhile ... I think I'll take a look around the house ...
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From the skills and abilities that God created me with in order to secure employment that God opened up the doors that gave me the provisions to enjoy such luxuries like a home, vehicles, bills paid, savings, and the other Blessings from God that on my own merit wouldn't have come to fruition. I am more than reminded that without God the majority of what I have wouldn't be in existence.
And since the Great Commission to preach, share the Gospel, make disciples isn't something that is done freely with traveling involved, expenses, a place to gather and worship which generally requires essentials like electricity, water, hymnals, keeping the surrounding area mowed and clean, the typical weather related items for people's safety such as shovels and rock salt for ice and snow, umbrellas to help the elderly in from the rain, and there's much more necessities involved that aren't free it seems rather the Godly thing to do by giving back to God from the many Blessings that He's generously given to me.
Now I understand some will ask for Scripture and format giving to the Law but God knows who is cheap and ungrateful and most likely has a heart of stone.
I am just thankful that isn't myself!
I feel blessed to give towards the works that ultimately will save souls from the Blessing that came from God to begin with.
And since the Great Commission to preach, share the Gospel, make disciples isn't something that is done freely with traveling involved, expenses, a place to gather and worship which generally requires essentials like electricity, water, hymnals, keeping the surrounding area mowed and clean, the typical weather related items for people's safety such as shovels and rock salt for ice and snow, umbrellas to help the elderly in from the rain, and there's much more necessities involved that aren't free it seems rather the Godly thing to do by giving back to God from the many Blessings that He's generously given to me.
Now I understand some will ask for Scripture and format giving to the Law but God knows who is cheap and ungrateful and most likely has a heart of stone.
I am just thankful that isn't myself!
I feel blessed to give towards the works that ultimately will save souls from the Blessing that came from God to begin with.
Why do you connect asking for Scripture with being “cheap” and having “a heart of stone”?
Is this not the Bible Discussion forum?
Actually, it could also represent a hidden seed of rebellion about giving in general and my answers are appropriate towards a discussion format.
If we take the Book of Acts for example. We see people selling their land and property and giving the first church 100% of the proceeds. We even have a story about a husband and wife who did this but lied about the amount they gave and ended up being killed by God. But it's very clear everyone participated and gave the church the entire proceeds.
So maybe it's rebellion about giving in general.
But giving 10% is a far less task than 100% and we see amazing things being done by just that small amount.
Perhaps you overlooked the details: those who sold lands weren’t selling their primary residence, but what would be called today “investment properties”, it was not 100% of their income at all. Ananias and Sapphira sought to mislead the people but they were under no obligation to give anything.
People who merely request biblical basis for a practice or teaching are in no way rebellious. Unfortunately, the charge of rebellion is very common from “leaders” who teach tithing. It’s baseless slander. It’s guilt-tripping people into compliance. It’s disgusting.